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Druid = ?

Riverwolf

Amateur Rambler / Proud Ergi
Premium Member
When you hear the name or title "druid" what are some words and associations that come to mind for you? If someone were to identify themselves as a Druid, what do you think that would mean?

Note that I'm not asking for a fact-oriented response here; I'm looking for personal opinions. Any and all responses are welcome and encouraged. Think of it as a survey. You can discuss and debate the meaning of the term if you wish, but this is mostly for my own curiosity. :D

The Druids were the ones who kept together the Celtic lands, were libraries of knowledge unto themselves, and leaders in rituals.

There are no more Druids. The last ones were massacred 2000 years ago by the Romans. Their knowledge is lost forever.

Those in modern times who call themselves Druids are not really so IMO. It used to take 20 years of training to become one; I wonder how many of them actually went through that?

That's generally what I think of nowadays when I think of the Druids, those Keepers of the Celts, my ancestors.
 

Riverwolf

Amateur Rambler / Proud Ergi
Premium Member
You said associations so:

druid_overview.jpg


druidfull.jpg


Generaly imagine it with large white beard, kneeled near a bonfire and a wolf skin on top of it all.

Mostly associate it with nordic stuff, runes, etc.

Cookie points if he is missing one eye and has a pair of scars :D

Think heavily on elements and animal spirits mostly. That and nordic stuff as said.

the images above are from the game Diablo II (cause I am a religious geek in computer games too :D )

Nordic? Wrong culture. The Druids were Cetlic, while the Nordic culture is Germanic, specifically Scandinavian. :p
 

paarsurrey

Veteran Member
When you hear the name or title "druid" what are some words and associations that come to mind for you? If someone were to identify themselves as a Druid, what do you think that would mean?

Note that I'm not asking for a fact-oriented response here; I'm looking for personal opinions. Any and all responses are welcome and encouraged. Think of it as a survey. You can discuss and debate the meaning of the term if you wish, but this is mostly for my own curiosity. :D

Druid must be a good people like others.

Did they believe in the one true attributive creator God? Just for information please.
 

Caladan

Agnostic Pantheist
When I think of the word Druid I think: Getafix, true nuetral, sickle and herbs, lush green landscape.
And really really bad pseudoarchaeological and historical books about Stonehenge.
 

Infinitum

Possessed Bookworm
I find the first image being a dreamy looking young person with a tree staff and green clothes, standing somewhere in a grove or similar place. Then after that it goes to Stonehenge and historical facts and WoW and stuff, but that's the first impression anyway.
 

Quintessence

Consults with Trees
Staff member
Premium Member
Druid must be a good people like others.

Did they believe in the one true attributive creator God? Just for information please.

Not that I am aware. They were basically clergy-types in Celtic culture, and Celtic culture was pretty robustly animistic/polytheistic. But I am hardly an expert on Celtic culture. I know enough to know that a lot of the records and resources are problematic and that the person to point you is Ronald Hutton; he is the leading academic authority on the Pagan history of the British Isles. Some of the modern Druidic orders are decent at tracking the factual history as well, but not all of them. Hutton's books can sometimes be found in well-stocked public libraries.

Unrelated to Paarsurrey's post, there's an interesting array of responses. It somewhat confirms some of my suspicions, in other ways it doesn't. Curious how terms can mean such different things to different people.
 

Quintessence

Consults with Trees
Staff member
Premium Member
To be transparent, one of the reasons I created this topic is because I have been mulling over personal labels. I have resisted slapping much specificity on myself beyond "Neopagan" for a long time, but that broad of a designation has never been a good way of describing me. Push comes to shove, I might use "Green Witch" as a more specific term, but even that is possibly not adequate to communicate with others. Of the major Neopagan groupings, the Druidic organizations appeal to me the most, and I've contemplated formally joining one of them. I'm not certain that label, however, would be consistent with my path or communicate the correct things to others. It is likely that no label will do this, and the diversity of responses here in a way confirms that. I'm not surprised by the diversity of responses in of itself, however. It means there is more thinking to do.

Amusingly, I think the label "tree-hugging dirt-worshipper" probably conveys what I do to people better than a term like "druid." But that is so many words to say! *laughs* It is usually what I end up telling people in real life when they inquire, however, because I don't assume that they'll get "tree-hugging dirt-worshipper" from "(Neo)Pagan."
 

Riverwolf

Amateur Rambler / Proud Ergi
Premium Member
Druid must be a good people like others.

Did they believe in the one true attributive creator God? Just for information please.

It's not known. What information there is on Celtic religion seems to indicate that theism was not a major aspect of it.
 

Iti oj

Global warming is real and we need to act
Premium Member
To be transparent, one of the reasons I created this topic is because I have been mulling over personal labels. I have resisted slapping much specificity on myself beyond "Neopagan" for a long time, but that broad of a designation has never been a good way of describing me. Push comes to shove, I might use "Green Witch" as a more specific term, but even that is possibly not adequate to communicate with others. Of the major Neopagan groupings, the Druidic organizations appeal to me the most, and I've contemplated formally joining one of them. I'm not certain that label, however, would be consistent with my path or communicate the correct things to others. It is likely that no label will do this, and the diversity of responses here in a way confirms that. I'm not surprised by the diversity of responses in of itself, however. It means there is more thinking to do.

Amusingly, I think the label "tree-hugging dirt-worshipper" probably conveys what I do to people better than a term like "druid." But that is so many words to say! *laughs* It is usually what I end up telling people in real life when they inquire, however, because I don't assume that they'll get "tree-hugging dirt-worshipper" from "(Neo)Pagan."
ha my labels depend on who i am talking to. which labels do the know and understand whay images do these paint which imagen are you trying to explain?
neopagan is so ingeneral. as for being a druid? what do you think qualifies you to use that label? what image do you have when you think of a druid?
i would ask if you use ogham its the most fundimental part. it contains the trees calender langauge magic etc for the druids. but thats what i focused on when i walked the grove. I quickly evolved into shamanism do to a book called the Celtic shaman anyways yadyayda chaos shaman lucifer god of awesomesauce
 

LegionOnomaMoi

Veteran Member
Premium Member
The Druids were the ones who kept together the Celtic lands, were libraries of knowledge unto themselves, and leaders in rituals.

There are no more Druids. The last ones were massacred 2000 years ago by the Romans. Their knowledge is lost forever.

Those in modern times who call themselves Druids are not really so IMO. It used to take 20 years of training to become one; I wonder how many of them actually went through that?

It seems as though this is a historical (rather than spiritual or religious) perspective, yet we don't really have much clue about the historical druids. We have startlingly problematic accounts even by the same authors. The most important is that of Caesar. His account appears in book VI of the BG (sections 13-18), and begins with a separation of the Gallic people into classes. Apart from the plebes or common folk, according to Caesar there are only two important classes: druides and equites. The primary role Caesar ascribes to the druids is one of priesthood. They are rebus divinis intersunt, sacrificia publica ac privata procurant, religiones interpretantur ("concerned with divine things, attend to sacrifices public and private, [and] interpret religious matters"). The druids, however, are not simply religious leaders, but by extension hold a more general authority and prominence in Gallic society. It is the druids, Caesar writes, who de omnibus controversiis publicis privatisque constituent ("regulate all controversies public and private") including criminal action, and have the capacity to impose both rewards and penalties (praemia poenasque). The druids appear to be the figures of authority in Gaul.

But the very importance Caesar grants to the druids, however, is a reason for questioning his description. As first noted by Fustel de Coulanges in his La Gaule Romaine, if the druids were as central to Celtic society as Caesar asserts, the complete absence of any mention apart from the short aside in book VI is rather remarkable. Time and time again in the BG Caesar describes in great detail places, people, and even creatures he either personally encounters or is told about. Shortly after his description of the druids, Caesar devotes line after line to various animals in Germany, including a unicorn. Given his familiarity with Gaul, its peoples, and important individuals he encountered during his campaigns, the invisibility of the druids in BG is indicative of its unreliability.

This is particularly true considering information we possess about the druids apart from Caesar. Cicero, in his De Divinatione, affirms indeed that druids do exist in Gaul because he knows one: Divitiacus of the Aedui (of whom he says, in I.90, "Siquidem et in Gallia Druidae sunt, e quibus ipse Divitiacum Haeduum…cognovi/ if indeed there are druids in Gaul, [and there are because] I knew one of these myself, Divitiacus the Aeduan."). This is the same individual whom Caesar refers to as Diviciacus and whom he writes quite a bit about. Yet not once does he mention that Diviciacus is a druid.

How can a governing caste, so vital to social functioning across all of Gaul, exist in the way Caesar describes in book VI, and yet at the same time be insignificant enough that he felt mention of specific druids, their roles in the war as spiritual and communal leaders, their actions or inactions during Caesar’s time in Gaul, and so on, to be completely unnecessary? Of all the descriptions of the druids we possess which have survived from antiquity, Caesar’s is by far the most important. It is at once the lengthiest description of the druids and their role and is provided by a contemporary who was in an excellent position to know who the druids were.
Furthermore, in the handful of references given in other sources (many of which likely depend upon Caesar’s account), nowhere do we find greater prominence ascribed to the druids as leaders of Celtic society than in the passage from book VI of the BG.

How then can we say with any great confidence much of anything about the druids? Even etymological speculation is just that: speculation.
 

gnostic

The Lost One
christineES said:
I hate to say it, but I think of Christmas trees and wreaths. I am not sure if it's true, but I heard the druids had something to do with those.

I don't know about the wreaths, but Christmas trees were Norse-Germanic tradition, and celebrated on Yule-eve & Yule day, which was on winter's solstice. The christmas trees doesn't relate to the druids, as far as I can tell.
 

otokage007

Well-Known Member
Lol, rare question u made OP.

When I think bout "druid", some of the things that come to my mind are animals, magic, isolated persons and secret knowledge bout nature. lol hope it helped :p
 

Riverwolf

Amateur Rambler / Proud Ergi
Premium Member
It seems as though this is a historical (rather than spiritual or religious) perspective, yet we don't really have much clue about the historical druids. We have startlingly problematic accounts even by the same authors. The most important is that of Caesar. His account appears in book VI of the BG (sections 13-18), and begins with a separation of the Gallic people into classes. Apart from the plebes or common folk, according to Caesar there are only two important classes: druides and equites. The primary role Caesar ascribes to the druids is one of priesthood. They are rebus divinis intersunt, sacrificia publica ac privata procurant, religiones interpretantur ("concerned with divine things, attend to sacrifices public and private, [and] interpret religious matters"). The druids, however, are not simply religious leaders, but by extension hold a more general authority and prominence in Gallic society. It is the druids, Caesar writes, who de omnibus controversiis publicis privatisque constituent ("regulate all controversies public and private") including criminal action, and have the capacity to impose both rewards and penalties (praemia poenasque). The druids appear to be the figures of authority in Gaul.

But the very importance Caesar grants to the druids, however, is a reason for questioning his description. As first noted by Fustel de Coulanges in his La Gaule Romaine, if the druids were as central to Celtic society as Caesar asserts, the complete absence of any mention apart from the short aside in book VI is rather remarkable. Time and time again in the BG Caesar describes in great detail places, people, and even creatures he either personally encounters or is told about. Shortly after his description of the druids, Caesar devotes line after line to various animals in Germany, including a unicorn. Given his familiarity with Gaul, its peoples, and important individuals he encountered during his campaigns, the invisibility of the druids in BG is indicative of its unreliability.

This is particularly true considering information we possess about the druids apart from Caesar. Cicero, in his De Divinatione, affirms indeed that druids do exist in Gaul because he knows one: Divitiacus of the Aedui (of whom he says, in I.90, "Siquidem et in Gallia Druidae sunt, e quibus ipse Divitiacum Haeduum…cognovi/ if indeed there are druids in Gaul, [and there are because] I knew one of these myself, Divitiacus the Aeduan."). This is the same individual whom Caesar refers to as Diviciacus and whom he writes quite a bit about. Yet not once does he mention that Diviciacus is a druid.

How can a governing caste, so vital to social functioning across all of Gaul, exist in the way Caesar describes in book VI, and yet at the same time be insignificant enough that he felt mention of specific druids, their roles in the war as spiritual and communal leaders, their actions or inactions during Caesar’s time in Gaul, and so on, to be completely unnecessary? Of all the descriptions of the druids we possess which have survived from antiquity, Caesar’s is by far the most important. It is at once the lengthiest description of the druids and their role and is provided by a contemporary who was in an excellent position to know who the druids were.
Furthermore, in the handful of references given in other sources (many of which likely depend upon Caesar’s account), nowhere do we find greater prominence ascribed to the druids as leaders of Celtic society than in the passage from book VI of the BG.

How then can we say with any great confidence much of anything about the druids? Even etymological speculation is just that: speculation.

One of my biggest hopes is that at least one Druid survived the massacre and wrote down what they were.

Unlikely, I know, but, hey, I can dream, can't I?
 

LegionOnomaMoi

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Unlikely, I know, but, hey, I can dream, can't I?
According to reports, they didn't committ anything to writing, but as these reports aren't exactly trustworthy...well, let's just say even if our reasons differ, I'm right there with you. Discovering an actual Celtic text from the around the Roman era (or really anything before Christian scribes started going around and writing down "christianized" versions of pagan mythology/cosomology)? That would be great.
 

Riverwolf

Amateur Rambler / Proud Ergi
Premium Member
According to reports, they didn't committ anything to writing, but as these reports aren't exactly trustworthy...well, let's just say even if our reasons differ, I'm right there with you. Discovering an actual Celtic text from the around the Roman era (or really anything before Christian scribes started going around and writing down "christianized" versions of pagan mythology/cosomology)? That would be great.

Then again, maybe the Coligny Calender was written by a druid. ^_^
 

Quintessence

Consults with Trees
Staff member
Premium Member
ha my labels depend on who i am talking to. which labels do the know and understand whay images do these paint which imagen are you trying to explain?
neopagan is so ingeneral. as for being a druid? what do you think qualifies you to use that label? what image do you have when you think of a druid?

I think of someone like me who is attempting to be a career natural scientist who also enjoys philosophy, the fine arts, and the esoteric. *laughs* Many of the more "big name" modern Druids fall somewhere into that spectrum. They're at a minimum amateur naturalists. Many are familiar with various philosophical schools. They're practicing artists of some sort or another. And, in the religious aspects of honoring the divinity in nature, their rituals are more mystical/ecstatic/esoteric. The community feels like a fit compared to others in the Neopagan umbrella; I just haven't picked one to actually join. Part of the reason for that is I have this idea in my head that Druid = Celtic. It's misguided, because I know for a fact that several modern Druid organizations in no way require you to have a Celtic-inspired path. I can't seem to escape that association in my brain, and since I have little to no desire to live a Celtic-inspired path, that's a place the fit feels "off." I do enjoy tales of the world's mythologies, but if anything, I lean Greek, not Celtic.

As for the tree calendar, it's my understanding the tree calendar is a modern invention. I haven't gotten any impression form the various modern organizations out there that using it is at all fundamental. :shrug: I would make my own tree calendar if I used one, based on the trees native to my area and what they are doing at a given time of year. See, to me, doing that kind of thing screams "druid" more than blindly following lore from a land you don't even live in. >_<;
 

Iti oj

Global warming is real and we need to act
Premium Member
I think of someone like me who is attempting to be a career natural scientist who also enjoys philosophy, the fine arts, and the esoteric. *laughs* Many of the more "big name" modern Druids fall somewhere into that spectrum. They're at a minimum amateur naturalists. Many are familiar with various philosophical schools. They're practicing artists of some sort or another. And, in the religious aspects of honoring the divinity in nature, their rituals are more mystical/ecstatic/esoteric. The community feels like a fit compared to others in the Neopagan umbrella; I just haven't picked one to actually join. Part of the reason for that is I have this idea in my head that Druid = Celtic. It's misguided, because I know for a fact that several modern Druid organizations in no way require you to have a Celtic-inspired path. I can't seem to escape that association in my brain, and since I have little to no desire to live a Celtic-inspired path, that's a place the fit feels "off." I do enjoy tales of the world's mythologies, but if anything, I lean Greek, not Celtic.

As for the tree calendar, it's my understanding the tree calendar is a modern invention. I haven't gotten any impression form the various modern organizations out there that using it is at all fundamental. :shrug: I would make my own tree calendar if I used one, based on the trees native to my area and what they are doing at a given time of year. See, to me, doing that kind of thing screams "druid" more than blindly following lore from a land you don't even live in. >_<;
I was not advacnced enough in my practice to think like that at the time it was my first thing after leaving the church. I think druid is a perfict label for what you described i think it embodies the druid archtype.
 
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