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Dualism and Judaism

In this thread, xkatz said this:

Well Judaism is generally a non-dualistic religion (ie there is no good vs evil), therefore a belief in the Anti-Christ would be incompatible for the most part with Jewish belief.

It kind of brought up something I'm curious about, but, what is the Jewish perspective on evil and good, I've read some websites, but, am still a bit confused. Does Judaism believe evil doesn't exist, as some religions and Philosophies claim, does evil come from God?, from a Jewish perspective, are there spiritual beings who can be classed as evil (e.g. demons, etc), etc.

I'd really appreciate any help understanding the Jewish perspective on this topic.

Thanks.

David.
 

xkatz

Well-Known Member
I believe that Judaism is non-dualistic. The concept of Hell and the Devil (or any evil entity for that matter) do not exist in Judaism. All things originate from G-d. However, good and evil are not real in sense- they are a way we as human beings tend to perceive things. I am not sure if Judaism explicitly says that evil does not exist, but the concept of good vs. evil is not as highly emphasized upon as in other religions AFAIK. That all said, you could probably expect a variety of answers from individual people.

BTW, thanks for quoting me :) It makes me feel special :D
 
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Tarheeler

Argumentative Curmudgeon
Premium Member
From what I understand, God is the Creator of everything. Good and evil, light and dark.
And, as xkatz said, it's not so clear-cut. What we perceive might not be what is actually going on. But Judaism is definitely not dualistic, IMO. Satan is seen as an agent of God rather than a rival source of power; everything comes from God.
 
I believe that Judaism is non-dualistic. The concept of Hell and the Devil (or any evil entity for that matter) do not exist in Judaism. All things originate from G-d. However, good and evil are not real in sense- they are a way we as human beings tend to perceive things. I am not sure if Judaism explicitly says that evil does not exist, but the concept of good vs. evil is not as highly emphasized upon as in other religions AFAIK. That all said, you could probably expect a variety of answers from individual people.

BTW, thanks for quoting me :) It makes me feel special :D

From what I understand, God is the Creator of everything. Good and evil, light and dark.
And, as xkatz said, it's not so clear-cut. What we perceive might not be what is actually going on. But Judaism is definitely not dualistic, IMO. Satan is seen as an agent of God rather than a rival source of power; everything comes from God.

Thanks for the replies, I guess, I've just read many different things, like some things I've read have said what you 2 just stated that what we call good and evil originate in God, or that there's no equal Power of Evil opposing God, but, I've also read things about the Sitra Achara (the Other Side, I think?), which, I think, is supposed to be the side of evil, like Demonic Powers, etc, do they oppose God?, also, I hope this question will make sense, but, in Jewish thought, evil more a product of existence, like, does the Sitra Achara, and other spiritual forces of evil, exist because of existence (not sure if that made any sense)?.

Sorry for all the questions, it's just I'm quite curious about this subject (and, I'm also kind of interested to learn where beings such as Demonic Forces, Lilith, etc fit in, in the scheme of things).

Thanks again for any help :).
 

Zardoz

Wonderful Wizard
Premium Member

Levite

Higher and Higher
It kind of brought up something I'm curious about, but, what is the Jewish perspective on evil and good, I've read some websites, but, am still a bit confused. Does Judaism believe evil doesn't exist, as some religions and Philosophies claim, does evil come from God?, from a Jewish perspective, are there spiritual beings who can be classed as evil (e.g. demons, etc), etc.

So, I would say that Judaism is not technically dualistic in the sense that there is not an independent power of embodied evil, which is in some way a rival to God, like the Devil in Christianity.

We say that God, as sole originator and creator of all, is ultimately responsible for the existence of evil. If you check Isaiah 45:7, it says yotzer ohr uvoreh choshech, oseh shalom uvoreh et ha-ra, ani YHVH oseh et kol eileh. "I form light and I create darkness, I make peace and I create evil, I Hashem do all these things." But that does not necessarily imply that God created an ultimate personalized embodiment of evil, like the Devil. That means that evil can be traced back, ultimately, to things which are not, in and of themselves, evil, which are God's creations.

Now, when we speak of evil, we have a tendency to include things which are not, technically, evil. Evil demands (as they put it sometimes in the law) malice aforethought. It requires intention. The intention may not be "to do evil." It might be-- and usually is-- to do something which the evildoer has convinced themselves is good, but which the rest of us can clearly see is not. But it requires thoughtful action. Which means that we cannot accurately label such as natural disasters, plagues and illnesses, accidental misfortunes, and natural death from old age, to be truly evil. Destructive? Sure. Unfortunate? Often. Harmful? Yes. Undesirable? You bet. But not evil. These things result from the natural processes of entropy, chaos, and competition of species which are necessary to the proper functioning of the universe. Can we "blame" God for them? Sure, God created the universe, and for whatever reason, He created it to require those processes to function. But it wasn't personal. It's not like, if my grandfather dies, that means that God, in creating the universe, said, "I better make sure and create cancer, because one of these days, Max is going to come along, and I have got to get that S.O.B."

But people can make evil. We do it all the time. And that's real evil. That is something of which, I am sure, I need give no examples. We are all familiar with them.

Presumably, if there are other kinds of beings in the universe that are self-aware, reasoning, and possessed of some kind of free will (and I believe that there are) those beings would also be capable of evil.

The traditional Rabbinic and post-Talmudic texts speak about demons, sometimes. They are portrayed in various ways, according to various kinds. But one thing is a constant: they are not in rebellion against God, not in the same way that Christian fallen angel demons are said to be. In our literature, demons will obey the Name of God if wielded against them, and acknowledge God's authority over everything, including themselves. They are portrayed more as beings utterly devoted to greed, lust, desire for power in the physical world, with a universal propensity for taking a perverse pleasure in mischief, and in the misfortunes of others. In short, little different in character and temperament than many lousier people, including perhaps some politicians we might name.

Later, in the Middle Ages and early Renaissance, demons were seen as being rather worse: they sort of "fed" off of the suffering or the sorrow of living people, and so were likely to do all kinds of mischief for the purpose of feeding off the resultant unhappiness of their victims.

I think in the medieval period, there was something of an element of dualism to this kind of demonic thinking, in that demons at that time-- due to the influence of Christianity-- were informally seen to be working at odds with God. Formally, of course, such an idea did not enter Jewish dogma, simply because it is ultimately incompatible with pure monotheism. But this was folk belief we're talking about: superstition, not real religion.

Personally, I think that if there are demons, they are likely to be either not truly evil, but merely naturally occurring aphysical spiritual entities whose instincts run to a kind of narcissistic indulgence of curiosity, personal whim, and psycho-emotional appetites that is effectively productive of chaos. Or, they are actually the spiritual essences of human beings who, through personal greed focused through black magic, have managed to wrench their souls out of the natural process of death, rebirth, and onward motion to other planes of existence, in order to remain here in an aphysical form that, through the drawing-in of other spiritual energies, can become powerful enough to manifest actions in the physical. These creatures would, having once been human, legitimately be evil. This, though, I confess is my own opinion and conjecture, and not any authoritatively stated opinion in Jewish tradition.

As for the Sitra Achra, that is not a mainstream belief of the Rabbinic tradition per se, but rather a product of Zoharic Kabbalah (and, to a lesser extent Lurianic, although the ARI z"l's universe is really completely different in structure from anything previous in Judaism, even in Kabbalah; and in his world, there is little room for angels or demons. The closest you usually can come is certain understandings of the complex and different energies released in Shevirat Hakelim, the Breaking of the Vessels, but it's really kind of a whole different thing). There are complex understandings of precisely how the Sitra Achra works, but the quick and dirty version is that the Sitra Achra, as opposed to the Sitra d'Kedusha (the Holy Side of things), is that side of the emanations of God's energy which is furthest from Ein Sof (God's true and Infinite core of being). It is only because of the Sitra Achra that free will can exist (the Zohar would tell you), in that only in the influence of the Sitra Achra can any creature make choices that go against God's will. But the Sitra Achra, in true Kabbalistic thought (as opposed to how the term is sometimes employed in folk supersitition) is not an embodiment of evil, or an alignment of evil forces, or any such supernatural evil power. Rather, it's something like a "God-free zone," that is (depending on one's interpretation of the Zohar) either empowering of beings to exercise free will to do evil, or it is engendering of evil in such beings (in other words, sort of the ur-force of the yetzer ha-ra).

That said, I must confess that I have very little inclination to believe in a Sitra Achra. I think, first of all, that if God is omnipresent, there can be noplace where God's presence is less. But in any case, I think the idea misses the point. There is no need for a Sitra Achra, because it is God's will that we have free will. There is a difference between God's will and what God would prefer from us. God's will is that we have free will. That God would prefer that we use that free will to choose to do right does not negate that He wishes us to have free will. In that sense, even if we abuse that free will, and choose to do evil, we are still following God's will. We are merely ignoring His preferences.

Anyhow, if you'd like to explore Jewish beliefs about the supernatural more, I cannot recommend highly enough Jewish Magic and Supersition: A Study In Folk Religion, by Joshua Trachtenberg. A very well-researched book, and an excellent place to begin one's education in Jewish magic and folk mysticism.
 
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Jews do not believe in a revolt of angels in heaven, as I have said many times here on RF. A useful link:

Orthodox Judaism: Purpose of HaSatan, true existence, hasatan

However, there are such things as demons, called 'Quilopth' but they were not angels nor were they created. The best way to think of them is as toxic waste by-product of the creation.

You find discussions about them in Kabbalah when one studies the Breaking of the Vessels:

Breaking of the Vessels, Shevirat ha-Kelim

Thanks for the links, especially the second one, it looks very interesting.

So, I would say that Judaism is not technically dualistic in the sense that there is not an independent power of embodied evil, which is in some way a rival to God, like the Devil in Christianity.

We say that God, as sole originator and creator of all, is ultimately responsible for the existence of evil. If you check Isaiah 45:7, it says yotzer ohr uvoreh choshech, oseh shalom uvoreh et ha-ra, ani YHVH oseh et kol eileh. "I form light and I create darkness, I make peace and I create evil, I Hashem do all these things." But that does not necessarily imply that God created an ultimate personalized embodiment of evil, like the Devil. That means that evil can be traced back, ultimately, to things which are not, in and of themselves, evil, which are God's creations.

Now, when we speak of evil, we have a tendency to include things which are not, technically, evil. Evil demands (as they put it sometimes in the law) malice aforethought. It requires intention. The intention may not be "to do evil." It might be-- and usually is-- to do something which the evildoer has convinced themselves is good, but which the rest of us can clearly see is not. But it requires thoughtful action. Which means that we cannot accurately label such as natural disasters, plagues and illnesses, accidental misfortunes, and natural death from old age, to be truly evil. Destructive? Sure. Unfortunate? Often. Harmful? Yes. Undesirable? You bet. But not evil. These things result from the natural processes of entropy, chaos, and competition of species which are necessary to the proper functioning of the universe. Can we "blame" God for them? Sure, God created the universe, and for whatever reason, He created it to require those processes to function. But it wasn't personal. It's not like, if my grandfather dies, that means that God, in creating the universe, said, "I better make sure and create cancer, because one of these days, Max is going to come along, and I have got to get that S.O.B."

But people can make evil. We do it all the time. And that's real evil. That is something of which, I am sure, I need give no examples. We are all familiar with them.

Presumably, if there are other kinds of beings in the universe that are self-aware, reasoning, and possessed of some kind of free will (and I believe that there are) those beings would also be capable of evil.

The traditional Rabbinic and post-Talmudic texts speak about demons, sometimes. They are portrayed in various ways, according to various kinds. But one thing is a constant: they are not in rebellion against God, not in the same way that Christian fallen angel demons are said to be. In our literature, demons will obey the Name of God if wielded against them, and acknowledge God's authority over everything, including themselves. They are portrayed more as beings utterly devoted to greed, lust, desire for power in the physical world, with a universal propensity for taking a perverse pleasure in mischief, and in the misfortunes of others. In short, little different in character and temperament than many lousier people, including perhaps some politicians we might name.

Later, in the Middle Ages and early Renaissance, demons were seen as being rather worse: they sort of "fed" off of the suffering or the sorrow of living people, and so were likely to do all kinds of mischief for the purpose of feeding off the resultant unhappiness of their victims.

I think in the medieval period, there was something of an element of dualism to this kind of demonic thinking, in that demons at that time-- due to the influence of Christianity-- were informally seen to be working at odds with God. Formally, of course, such an idea did not enter Jewish dogma, simply because it is ultimately incompatible with pure monotheism. But this was folk belief we're talking about: superstition, not real religion.

Personally, I think that if there are demons, they are likely to be either not truly evil, but merely naturally occurring aphysical spiritual entities whose instincts run to a kind of narcissistic indulgence of curiosity, personal whim, and psycho-emotional appetites that is effectively productive of chaos. Or, they are actually the spiritual essences of human beings who, through personal greed focused through black magic, have managed to wrench their souls out of the natural process of death, rebirth, and onward motion to other planes of existence, in order to remain here in an aphysical form that, through the drawing-in of other spiritual energies, can become powerful enough to manifest actions in the physical. These creatures would, having once been human, legitimately be evil. This, though, I confess is my own opinion and conjecture, and not any authoritatively stated opinion in Jewish tradition.

As for the Sitra Achra, that is not a mainstream belief of the Rabbinic tradition per se, but rather a product of Zoharic Kabbalah (and, to a lesser extent Lurianic, although the ARI z"l's universe is really completely different in structure from anything previous in Judaism, even in Kabbalah; and in his world, there is little room for angels or demons. The closest you usually can come is certain understandings of the complex and different energies released in Shevirat Hakelim, the Breaking of the Vessels, but it's really kind of a whole different thing). There are complex understandings of precisely how the Sitra Achra works, but the quick and dirty version is that the Sitra Achra, as opposed to the Sitra d'Kedusha (the Holy Side of things), is that side of the emanations of God's energy which is furthest from Ein Sof (God's true and Infinite core of being). It is only because of the Sitra Achra that free will can exist (the Zohar would tell you), in that only in the influence of the Sitra Achra can any creature make choices that go against God's will. But the Sitra Achra, in true Kabbalistic thought (as opposed to how the term is sometimes employed in folk supersitition) is not an embodiment of evil, or an alignment of evil forces, or any such supernatural evil power. Rather, it's something like a "God-free zone," that is (depending on one's interpretation of the Zohar) either empowering of beings to exercise free will to do evil, or it is engendering of evil in such beings (in other words, sort of the ur-force of the yetzer ha-ra).

That said, I must confess that I have very little inclination to believe in a Sitra Achra. I think, first of all, that if God is omnipresent, there can be noplace where God's presence is less. But in any case, I think the idea misses the point. There is no need for a Sitra Achra, because it is God's will that we have free will. There is a difference between God's will and what God would prefer from us. God's will is that we have free will. That God would prefer that we use that free will to choose to do right does not negate that He wishes us to have free will. In that sense, even if we abuse that free will, and choose to do evil, we are still following God's will. We are merely ignoring His preferences.

Anyhow, if you'd like to explore Jewish beliefs about the supernatural more, I cannot recommend highly enough Jewish Magic and Supersition: A Study In Folk Religion, by Joshua Trachtenberg. A very well-researched book, and an excellent place to begin one's education in Jewish magic and folk mysticism.

Thanks very much for your reply, that actually explains a lot, and helps me understand a lot more. I actually have 'Jewish Magic & Superstition', although I haven't started on it yet, but, I definitely can't wait too (I think I mentioned in another thread, but, I like learning about the supernatural/paranormal/etc in Judaism, I find it quite interesting).

Thanks again everyone :).
 

Wessexman

Member
That is an interesting post Levite. That said I do have a few criticisms. Firstly I think it is wrong to call Christianity dualism. Dualism posits a second God or principle, Christianity does not do this. The devil is not equal to God in any sense, indeed he is would be a being of extreme privation and weakness.

Also I suppose it depends how you define monotheism but there is nothing in Christianity, ignoring some overly rigid, dogmatic theological positions on Christ and the Trinity, that is contrary to pure monotheism.

When it comes to God's presence I think in one sense, and remember we using the limited tools of discursive thought and human language, it can be said that God's presence is less in certain areas. That is to say the universe clearly is not God on one level but on another level it must be God because there is nothing else but God. There is both a continuity and discontinuity then between God and the universe. This is both where evil arises from, evil is but the distance from God. Indeed evil doesn't exist as such, it is but the privation of the Good, which is ultimately God. Evil has no essence in itself, pure evil being nothingness. Then the more evil, or more correctly less Good something is the further way it is from God and in one sense then his presence is less. However in another sense of course there can never be anything utterly beyond the reach of God, his presence extends everywhere. Ultimately even the devil himself can find salvation.
 
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Levite

Higher and Higher
That is an interesting post Levite. That said I do have a few criticisms. Firstly I think it is wrong to call Christianity dualism. Dualism posits a second God or principle, Christianity does not do this. The devil is not equal to God in any sense, indeed he is would be a being of extreme privation and weakness.

I'm not a Christian. So anything that I say about Christianity must be taken as the view of someone from outside. I may describe what Christianity looks like to me, but I would be the first to acknowledge that what it appears like to me may have little to do with how it is perceived by Christians themselves.

To me, I think that how Christians choose to perceive the Devil varies widely. But in many cases, I think that either the Devil must be so close in power and independence to a dualistic authority as not to make much difference, or the entire doctrine of a Devil is so weak as to be, theologically, deeply ineffective.

Also I suppose it depends how you define monotheism but there is nothing in Christianity, ignoring some overly rigid, dogmatic theological positions on Christ and the Trinity, that is contrary to pure monotheism.

There is nothing in Christianity that is contrary to monotheism per se; but Christian monotheism is complicated by trinitarianism. It is not necessarily invalidated by trinitarianism, but it is made slightly indirect. "Pure" monotheism, as I understand it, demands a much more direct and uncomplicated theology.

When it comes to God's presence I think in one sense, and remember we using the limited tools of discursive thought and human language, it can be said that God's presence is less in certain areas. That is to say the universe clearly is not God on one level but on another level it must be God because there is nothing else but God. There is both a continuity and discontinuity then between God and the universe. This is both where evil arises from, evil is but the distance from God. Indeed evil doesn't exist as such, it is but the privation of the Good, which is ultimately God. Evil has no essence in itself, pure evil being nothingness. Then the more evil, or more correctly less Good something is the further way it is from God and in one sense then his presence is less. However in another sense of course there can never be anything utterly beyond the reach of God, his presence extends everywhere. Ultimately even the devil himself can find salvation.

Yes, many have made such arguments in Judaism also. In this matter, I side with the early Hasidic masters, especially Rebbe Menachem Nachum of Chernobyl, the Me'or Enayim, who stated that the idea of being "far" from God was entirely a matter of spiritual awareness. That when we are "far" or "removed" from God's presence, it is not that there is actually a distance from or lessening of God's presence around us, but that we, because of our sins or spiritually unhealthy behavior, have become blocked in our perceptions, unable to connect with God. In repentance, part of our process is that we unblock ourselves, reconnect, and understand that the nature of God is truly omnipresence-- "removal" from God is impossible, because, as it says in Isaiah melo kol ha'aretz kevodo "the world entire is filled with His glory."

However, I do not believe that this blockage or disconnection from God is the same thing as being removed from or denuded of Good. To me, that is just another aspect of the old hypothesis that God is the summum bonum. Isaiah 45:7 teaches us that God is the One Source of both Good and Evil: both come from Him. To be truly connected to God is to acknowledge both, yet seek to embrace the Good wholly while channeling the Evil into productive sublimations.
 
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