Dying before asking for forgiveness

[Jaymes]

I've asked people why suicide sends you straight to hell, and I've been told it's because you can't ask forgiveness after you do it.

Two questions: Why can't you ask for forgiveness beforehand, and what happens if someone who leads an otherwise virtuous life sins and immediately after gets killed in a car crash? Same result as suicide?

 

[Aqualung]

I believe you can ask forgivenss after death, so it's really a non-issue with me.

 

[Scuba Pete]

Love covers a multitude of sins. I Cor 13,

 

[Scott1]

I've asked people why suicide sends you straight to hell, and I've been told it's because you can't ask forgiveness after you do it.

I don't know what sends you to hell for sure...

On suicide:
Suicide contradicts the natural inclination of the human being to preserve and perpetuate his life. It is gravely contrary to the just love of self. It likewise offends love of neighbor because it unjustly breaks the ties of solidarity with family, nation, and other human societies to which we continue to have obligations. Suicide is contrary to love for the living God.

We should not despair of the eternal salvation of persons who have taken their own lives. By ways known to him alone, God can provide the opportunity for salutary repentance. The Church prays for persons who have taken their own lives (CCC-emphasis mine).

 

[spacemonkey]

My belief is that we are in the worst place already, so suicide doesn't SEND you anywhere, its just kinda like hitting the RESET button!

 

[joeboonda]

The Bible does not say you will go to Hell if you kill yourself. Only one thing sends you to Hell: He that believeth on him is not condemned; but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. John 3:18. So, humans are condemned already having inherited sin from Adam, and the ONLY remedy is belief in, or trust in what Jesus did on the cross to pay for those sins-past, present, and future. (all your sins were future when he died for them) So if you have at some point in time (behold now is the DAY of salvation) trusted in Jesus, then you are his child, adopted, and secure in his hands, and nothing can pluck you out, for God is greater than all, and I am not greater than he is. Salvation is a TOTALY FREE GIFT, see Romans 5:16-18, its called free gift, or gift 5 times. Now the rewards and 'treasures in heaven' will differ for each individual according to how he lives after accepting the free gift. So one who commits suciide may lose some reward, yet he himself is saved.

Verily, verily I say He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, HATH everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation, but IS passed from death to life. John 5:24

We see from this verse, that at the moment one believes in Jesus, he HATH, not might have someday, if...but HAS RIGHT NOW, not just life, but EVERLASTING LIFE, (God would be a liar to say he gave you everlasting life if you could lose it), and shall not come into condemnation-you will not lose everlasting life and be back under God's judgement, but IS PASSED from death to life- you are, now passed from death to life- from a child of darkness, of the devil, to a child of light, of God. And though he may correct us, and we may not have fellowship with him, we are always his children, are always in relationship with him, from the moment we first believed. Haleluia!

 

[Ronald]

Upon the arriving of the Messiah, He will reward the Elect, He says Re 22:12 "Behold, I am coming soon, bringing my recompense, to repay every one for what he has done. (who is elect)
Re 14:12 Here is a call for the endurance of the saints, those who keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus.(Jesus is the Word of God made flesh/Torah)
The wicked who deny God and refuse to serve Him, even when they see His power and mercy, these are sealed in the book of the wicked. (Sealed, If you make it to this book you have already been judged and are awaiting the second death.)
A third group of people who died without the law/Jesus/Torah and those who do not keep the commandments of God(just saved/ not doing good works), they are the book of the intermidiates, they are the ones that will be judged at the "White Throne Judgement".

Just by what scripture do you folks judge another? Adonai will judge and has set the criteria for the Elect, the wicked and has judged them both and these books are sealed.
The people with a form of godliness are the only group that is unsealed Rev.20:12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
Some of these folks will be in the world to come, on the other hand some will taste the second death.

Suicide, abortion, murder and all forms of Lawlessness are what leads to wickedness, but "Saved" persons sometimes can't bear to live any longer, they will IMO remain saved and awaiting the second resurrection and the WTJ!

 

[spacemonkey]

If you don't belive in Original Sin, like myself, then there is no need to seek forgiveness when you die. How can you be forgiven and still have to stand judgement?

 

[Fatmop]

The Bible does not say you will go to Hell if you kill yourself. Only one thing sends you to Hell: He that believeth on him is not condemned; but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

Try talking that one over with Dante!

 

[Aqualung]

My belief is that we are in the worst place already, so suicide doesn't SEND you anywhere, its just kinda like hitting the RESET button!

Now, by hitting the reset button, do you mean we start this life all over again, that we're reincarnated? (just to understand what you're saying)

 

[gordon]

Bit late then!

 

[joeboonda]

Try talking that one over with Dante!

I will stick with God's word, not man's.

 

[Fatmop]

I will stick with God's word, not man's.

Sounds good. When do you get to talk to him? Has he popped in to your living room recently?

 

[MdmSzdWhtGuy]

The Bible does not say you will go to Hell if you kill yourself. Only one thing sends you to Hell: He that believeth on him is not condemned; but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. John 3:18. So, humans are condemned already having inherited sin from Adam, and the ONLY remedy is belief in, or trust in what Jesus did on the cross to pay for those sins-past, present, and future. (all your sins were future when he died for them) So if you have at some point in time (behold now is the DAY of salvation) trusted in Jesus, then you are his child, adopted, and secure in his hands, and nothing can pluck you out, for God is greater than all, and I am not greater than he is. Salvation is a TOTALY FREE GIFT, see Romans 5:16-18, its called free gift, or gift 5 times. Now the rewards and 'treasures in heaven' will differ for each individual according to how he lives after accepting the free gift. So one who commits suciide may lose some reward, yet he himself is saved.

Verily, verily I say He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, HATH everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation, but IS passed from death to life. John 5:24

We see from this verse, that at the moment one believes in Jesus, he HATH, not might have someday, if...but HAS RIGHT NOW, not just life, but EVERLASTING LIFE, (God would be a liar to say he gave you everlasting life if you could lose it), and shall not come into condemnation-you will not lose everlasting life and be back under God's judgement, but IS PASSED from death to life- you are, now passed from death to life- from a child of darkness, of the devil, to a child of light, of God. And though he may correct us, and we may not have fellowship with him, we are always his children, are always in relationship with him, from the moment we first believed. Haleluia!

What if I went to church as a child, which I did, and went through the procedure of getting saved, which I did, but later on lost the ability to beleive in this stuff?

My wife, who is a Catholic seems to think I still get to go to heaven as long as I am a good person. My LDS buddies from grad. school think I still get in cause I get a chance to ask for forgiveness and repent after I die, but my parents are firmly convinced I am going to Hell for not being a Southern Baptist.

If I suspend intellectual honesty long enough to hedge my bets regarding the afterlife, what is the minimum necessary to get in? Get babtised once then go about my merry way? (not an unappealing option) or am I screwed if I live the most pious life ever, but sin just before stepping off a curb and get hit by a bus (as I was taught as a child in church)?

I gave up on the idea of getting into heaven several years before I came to the conclusion that there was no more reason to beleive in Christianity than there was for believing in Zoroastrianism, Islam, Buddhism, Zeus, Athena, etc. etc. etc. Seems to me if I am required to die without any unrepented sins on my heart, then there is no use even bothering to try. But if there is a minimal requirement that someone knows of, something reasonably attainable, then I might be willing to set aside my rational brain long enough to go through with it.

That being said, what are the minimum requirements?

B.

 

[Aqualung]

faith in christ, repentence of sins, Baptism, recieving the gift of the holy ghost. Though once again, this can happen after death.

 

[joeboonda]

Sounds good. When do you get to talk to him? Has he popped in to your living room recently?

When I said God's word, I was referring to the BIble, which I believe is, that is all, if you don't belive it is, thats fine. That is just what I go by, sorry if I mislead you into thinking God drops by in my living room, although I do pray to him there sometimes. Peace.

 

[joeboonda]

faith in christ, repentence of sins, Baptism, recieving the gift of the holy ghost. Though once again, this can happen after death.

I know you believe we have a chance after death, I think its a dangerous belief. The rich man died and being in Hell...And I do not believe that folks who never heard of Jesus go to Hell, people are held accountable for the light given to them, they are not held accountable for rejecting something they have never been told. I know you believe differently, but I just wanted to warn others that if they have not accepted Christ in this life, and the Holy Spirit has convicted them to do so, they are in danger of judgement. I like your idea that people can get saved in the hereafter, it sounds real nice, and I wish it were so, but I am convinced it is not. Just wanted to say that, we don't have to debate it, I know your beliefs, you know mine, I won't put yours down if you do the same for me, peace.

 

[MdmSzdWhtGuy]

I know you believe we have a chance after death, I think its a dangerous belief. The rich man died and being in Hell...And I do not believe that folks who never heard of Jesus go to Hell, people are held accountable for the light given to them, they are not held accountable for rejecting something they have never been told. I know you believe differently, but I just wanted to warn others that if they have not accepted Christ in this life, and the Holy Spirit has convicted them to do so, they are in danger of judgement. I like your idea that people can get saved in the hereafter, it sounds real nice, and I wish it were so, but I am convinced it is not. Just wanted to say that, we don't have to debate it, I know your beliefs, you know mine, I won't put yours down if you do the same for me, peace.

Okie dokie,

I can say with absolute certainty that despite a childhood spent in church every sunday morning, sunday night and wednesday night, and hearing the same fire and brimstone that everyone else did, I was not moved by the Holy Spirit. What then?

I wish I believed. I wish I could just buy into what the preacher and bible say, and be done with it. But I cannot. I can mouth the words, and do the physical acts, but I cannot do so and be honest despite a sincere desire to be able to do so. What about me? My LDS friends say that I will be shown the light after I die and will get a second chance, but then my Babtist friends are already holding hot dogs over me. Who is to say who is correct?

B.

 

[Aqualung]

Okie dokie,

I can say with absolute certainty that despite a childhood spent in church every sunday morning, sunday night and wednesday night, and hearing the same fire and brimstone that everyone else did, I was not moved by the Holy Spirit. What then?

I wish I believed. I wish I could just buy into what the preacher and bible say, and be done with it. But I cannot. I can mouth the words, and do the physical acts, but I cannot do so and be honest despite a sincere desire to be able to do so. What about me? My LDS friends say that I will be shown the light after I die and will get a second chance, but then my Babtist friends are already holding hot dogs over me. Who is to say who is correct?

B.

Well, we're correct! duh!

 

[joeboonda]

Okie dokie,

I can say with absolute certainty that despite a childhood spent in church every sunday morning, sunday night and wednesday night, and hearing the same fire and brimstone that everyone else did, I was not moved by the Holy Spirit. What then?

I wish I believed. I wish I could just buy into what the preacher and bible say, and be done with it. But I cannot. I can mouth the words, and do the physical acts, but I cannot do so and be honest despite a sincere desire to be able to do so. What about me? My LDS friends say that I will be shown the light after I die and will get a second chance, but then my Babtist friends are already holding hot dogs over me. Who is to say who is correct?

B.

You may be like me and have to always have proof of everything. I had to go buy books to show me that the Bible was true, trustworthy, I bought books on apologetics, on archeological, scientific proofs of the Bible, and studied many other things, until I finaly saw that it all fit together very well, and am convinced that the Bible is trustworthy. Perhaps you were taught that salvation is not free, that you must earn it or work to keep it, or you may lose it? That is not good news. I dunno, maybe it was not presented right? I hope you can work that out. Now about the Hell question, gulp...
The Bible makes it very clear that if you hear the good news that Jesus paid for all your sins and offers salvation as a totally free gift, and you reject that, you will at death, go straight to Hell. That is the simple truth any other teaching is false and will lead many to Hell, thinking, ah I will do what I want now, and get it right in the next life. When Jesus spoke of the rich man and Lazarus in Luke, he said a CERTAIN man, which denotes a real man, he would not name him, but he tells it true, he said, the rich man also died, and was buried, AND IN HELL, HE LIFT UP HIS EYES, BEING IN TORMENTS...from Luke 16:22,23. Then he asked for a drop of water to cool his tongue being in torments in the flame...Jesus warned more of Hell than he talked about Heaven. In Hebrews it says it is appointed unto man once to die, and after this the judgement. Jesus says there will be a judgement, where the sheep and the goats will be separated, that is the wicked and the righteous. Make no mistake, if you live wickedly on this earth, and have never accepted the free gift of Christs' righteousness that he freely imputes to your account, you will go to Hell. Do not be fooled. You say you never felt the conviction of the Holy Spirit, but that is not so, or you would not spend so much time on this forum fighting against it. Anyway, I do not want to proselytize here, I just telling you the Baptists are right, lol. I wish you well in your journey, I feel Jesus told us the truth very clearly if we would read the Bible. Peace.