Early American History was Intertwined with Faith

[Sunstone]

Another instance of fake news

Says the guy who swallows the Barton's "history"!

 

[Sunstone]

Nice try. If you can't fight the facts, destroy the vehicle that is bringing the info. This is so common now that it has no effects.

Ken, it might have not effect on you that the Bartons are condemned as liars even by conservative Evangelical and Catholic historians, but I think wise folks will know what that bodes.

 

[Kenny]

I didn’t watch the whole thing. It’s an hour long, and there would be too much to cover anyway. What really stopped me though was that the very premise of the video is wrong. Hidden history? History historians don’t want you to know or are erasing? It’s simply not happening. The fact that their guest has a history book, which I’d assume is filled with hidden history, proves the notion wrong.

American history has been revised. That’s because all history is revised as we learn more and find better sources. That’s really it. What this video does is ignore that basic fact and instead submits a conspiracy theory.

Except they have many of the original documents and we can pinpoint the fact that what people say today is not matching empirical and verifiable evidence.

 

[Kenny]

Fake news isn’t a defense. It’s a cop out. Small pox was a real part of the US’s history, one that was devastating.

It's application was fake not that what happened is fake.

 

[Kenny]

Not at all. Secularism is the best way to protect religious freedom and the American Founding Fathers knew it: protect Catholic freedom of religion by making sure Protestants couldn't use the government to persecute them. Protect Protestant freedom of religion by making sure Catholics can't use the government to persecute them.

In a secular state, every religious group is free to worship as they see fit. In a theocracy, only one denomination flourishes and all the others are oppressed. The best givernment for healthy religion overall is secular government.

Funny, it doesn't seem to be working that way. Actually, it was set up as "freedom of religion" (not freedom from religion) whether Catholic or Protestant... secularism is what is changing things.

And, yes, it was a strawman

 

[Kenny]

Says the guy who swallows the Barton's "history"!

Only on the empirical and verifiable portions Some people just ignore the empirical and verifiable and not mentioning any names, Sunstone...

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oops!

 

[Kenny]

Ken, it might have not effect on you that the Bartons are condemned as liars even by conservative Evangelical and Catholic historians, but I think wise folks will know what that bodes.

The writings of Washington and Jefferson and their historical evidence are not lies.

 

[Sunstone]

Only on the empirical and verifiable portions Some people just ignore the empirical and verifiable and not mentioning any names, Sunstone...

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oops!

Again, says the guy who quotes the Bartons!

 

[Rational Agnostic]

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=1618445881525268

The other side -- the things that people don't know such as Jeffersons "other Bible" and Washington Deism.

"Christianity is the most perverted system that ever shown on man." -Thomas Jefferson

"The day will come when the mystical generation of Jesus, by the Supreme Being as his father, in the womb of a virgin, will be classed with the fable of the generation of Minerva in the brain of Jupiter." -Thomas Jefferson

"Millions of Innocent men, women, and children, since the introduction of Christianity, have been burnt, tortured, fined, imprisoned, yet we have not advanced one inch toward uniformity. What has been the effects of coercion? To make one half the world fools, and the other half hypocrites." - Thomas Jefferson

"I have recently been examining all the known superstitions of the world, and do not find in Christianity one redeeming feature. They are all alike, founded upon fables and mythologies." -Thomas Jefferson

"The United States is not a Christian nation anymore than a Jewish or Mohammedan nation." -John Adams

"The government of the United States, is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion." -John Adams

"What has been Christianity's fruits? Superstition, Bigotry, and Persecution." -James Madison

"The Bible is not my book, and Christianity is not my religion. I could never give assent to the long, complicated statements of Christian dogma." -Abraham Lincolon

 

[Kenny]

Again, says the guy who quotes the Bartons!

Again, since the documentation is there.

As I said before the "attack the person when you can't attack the message" is to old to be trying to use it.

 

[sun rise]

Give it time. Liberals are rewriting American history everyday in school texts.

Give it time. Conservatives are trying to rewrite American history in school and in the media.

 

[sun rise]

"The Bible is not my book, and Christianity is not my religion. I could never give assent to the long, complicated statements of Christian dogma." -Abraham Lincolon

Abraham Lincoln separated his belief in God and Jesus from Christianity's dogma saying:

I have never united myself to any church because I have found difficulty in giving my assent without mental reservation to the long complicated statements of Christian doctrine which characterize their articles of belief and confessions of faith. When any church will inscribe over its altar as the sole qualification for membership the Savior's condensed statement of the substance of both law and gospel: "Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart and with all thy soul and with all thy mind, and love thy neighbor as thyself," that church I will join with all my heart.

And since the OP is about US history and faith, the central role of Puritans, Quakers and others must be part of the discussion.

 

[Kenny]

"Christianity is the most perverted system that ever shown on man." -Thomas Jefferson

"The day will come when the mystical generation of Jesus, by the Supreme Being as his father, in the womb of a virgin, will be classed with the fable of the generation of Minerva in the brain of Jupiter." -Thomas Jefferson

"Millions of Innocent men, women, and children, since the introduction of Christianity, have been burnt, tortured, fined, imprisoned, yet we have not advanced one inch toward uniformity. What has been the effects of coercion? To make one half the world fools, and the other half hypocrites." - Thomas Jefferson

"I have recently been examining all the known superstitions of the world, and do not find in Christianity one redeeming feature. They are all alike, founded upon fables and mythologies." -Thomas Jefferson

"The United States is not a Christian nation anymore than a Jewish or Mohammedan nation." -John Adams

"The government of the United States, is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion." -John Adams

"What has been Christianity's fruits? Superstition, Bigotry, and Persecution." -James Madison

"The Bible is not my book, and Christianity is not my religion. I could never give assent to the long, complicated statements of Christian dogma." -Abraham Lincolon

Would you like me to equally quote thes people? Or perhaps you are cherry picking and taking it out of context.

 

[Kenny]

Abraham Lincoln separated his belief in God and Jesus from Christianity's dogma saying:

I have never united myself to any church because I have found difficulty in giving my assent without mental reservation to the long complicated statements of Christian doctrine which characterize their articles of belief and confessions of faith. When any church will inscribe over its altar as the sole qualification for membership the Savior's condensed statement of the substance of both law and gospel: "Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart and with all thy soul and with all thy mind, and love thy neighbor as thyself," that church I will join with all my heart.

1) Yes, he is acknowledging his faith here
2) Abraham Lincoln Family Church - he must have found that church

 

[tytlyf]

The famous "Jefferson's Bible" where he cut out portions and is promoted as "He didn't like the Bible". Fake news.

1) He actually had two that were cut up for different reasons
2) The one people quote, he had cut out those scriptures because of:

On suggestion of a Scotland preacher who said "If you are going to reach the Indians, don't give them a Bible because they are going to read Leviticus etc". So what he did is cut out the portions of Jesus (like a red letter edition) and pasted them on another book to give it to a missionary so that he could use the teachings of Jesus to the Indians.

The second cut up one was to make of compilations of morals for people to make government smaller by their changed lifestyles. (we could learn from that)

I doubt that is true. I do know he removed any mention of miracles and the like. People have this notion that the founding fathers were christian. They weren't. Just because republican media tells you that, doesn't mean it's true.

 

[Kenny]

I doubt that is true. I do know he removed any mention of miracles and the like. People have this notion that the founding fathers were christian. They weren't. Just because republican media tells you that, doesn't mean it's true.

It actually is verified through the letters and journals.

 

[fallingblood]

The famous "Jefferson's Bible" where he cut out portions and is promoted as "He didn't like the Bible". Fake news.

1) He actually had two that were cut up for different reasons
2) The one people quote, he had cut out those scriptures because of:

On suggestion of a Scotland preacher who said "If you are going to reach the Indians, don't give them a Bible because they are going to read Leviticus etc". So what he did is cut out the portions of Jesus (like a red letter edition) and pasted them on another book to give it to a missionary so that he could use the teachings of Jesus to the Indians.

The second cut up one was to make of compilations of morals for people to make government smaller by their changed lifestyles. (we could learn from that)

That's not true. Thomas Jefferson was very influenced by deism, as well as the scholarship at that time. At that time, there was a movement in scholarship, which became dominant, that rejected the miracles of Jesus. Scholars simply stated that they didn't happen, or they found natural explanations for the miracles. So instead of Jesus walking on water, he was said to be walking on ice, and it simply looked like he was walking on water.

Jefferson was pretty clear that he distrusted the Gospel writers, and claimed they were untrustworthy correspondents. So trying to get to the heart of the message of Jesus, he cut up the Gospels in order to separate the philosophy of Jesus from, what he said, “the corruption of schismatizing followers.”

We also know why he did it. He said, as laying out his intention, "the result of a life of enquiry and reflection, and very different from that anti-Christian system, imputed to me by those who know nothing of my opinions.” What resulted was his first volume, which was called the Philosophy of Jesus. And its as basically a sayings Gospel.

For the second one, he did a bit more work. Now, he didn't take just one Bible and cut it up. He took at least six copies of the NT, some in Greek and Latin, and compiled what he called "The Life and Morals of Jesus Christ." What's largely missing are the miracles, as he said they were "contrary to reason." Telling, he even leaves out the resurrection.

We can read his correspondence, and know why he did it. The version you're putting forth is not found in his works. Instead, he's pretty clear that he was separating Jesus from the rubbish.

Except they have many of the original documents and we can pinpoint the fact that what people say today is not matching empirical and verifiable evidence.

Kind of like I did above? Your version of Jefferson putting together his Bible does not match empirical and verifiable evidence.

We do have many original documents. But that isn't all that history is composed of. Some of those original documents contain falsities, or even straight out lies. And your argument here is so vague that it is meaningless.

It's application was fake not that what happened is fake.

What application are you talking about? The fact is, as was first stated, the U.S. history is filled with smallpox. That's not false. Its not fake. I have no idea what your argument is here.

 

[Phantasman]

Give it time. Conservatives are trying to rewrite American history in school and in the media.

lol........
Considering these facts, we can clearly see who is the greater influence:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...ng-students-education/?utm_term=.ab1c6440803c

 

[M83]

2) Abraham Lincoln Family Church - he must have found that church

Except it doesn't mention that Abraham really did anything with the church. It even says this: Abraham Lincoln did not formally join the church, but his wife became a member on April 13, 1852. Mary is the only Lincoln who seemed to do anything with the church aside from baptism and funerals.

 

[Phantasman]

That's not true. Thomas Jefferson was very influenced by deism, as well as the scholarship at that time. At that time, there was a movement in scholarship, which became dominant, that rejected the miracles of Jesus. Scholars simply stated that they didn't happen, or they found natural explanations for the miracles. So instead of Jesus walking on water, he was said to be walking on ice, and it simply looked like he was walking on water.

Jefferson was pretty clear that he distrusted the Gospel writers, and claimed they were untrustworthy correspondents. So trying to get to the heart of the message of Jesus, he cut up the Gospels in order to separate the philosophy of Jesus from, what he said, “the corruption of schismatizing followers.”

We also know why he did it. He said, as laying out his intention, "the result of a life of enquiry and reflection, and very different from that anti-Christian system, imputed to me by those who know nothing of my opinions.” What resulted was his first volume, which was called the Philosophy of Jesus. And its as basically a sayings Gospel.

For the second one, he did a bit more work. Now, he didn't take just one Bible and cut it up. He took at least six copies of the NT, some in Greek and Latin, and compiled what he called "The Life and Morals of Jesus Christ." What's largely missing are the miracles, as he said they were "contrary to reason." Telling, he even leaves out the resurrection.

We can read his correspondence, and know why he did it. The version you're putting forth is not found in his works. Instead, he's pretty clear that he was separating Jesus from the rubbish.

Kind of like I did above? Your version of Jefferson putting together his Bible does not match empirical and verifiable evidence.

We do have many original documents. But that isn't all that history is composed of. Some of those original documents contain falsities, or even straight out lies. And your argument here is so vague that it is meaningless.

What application are you talking about? The fact is, as was first stated, the U.S. history is filled with smallpox. That's not false. Its not fake. I have no idea what your argument is here.

Actually, Jefferson understood the influence of the Jews on the Gospel, and did the same thing Marcion did in the 2nd century. He removed the Jewish portions (orthodoxy) and concentrated on the gospel (gnosis). He understood dualism and believed more gnostic.