• Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

Eastern religions in the west

Vinayaka

devotee
Premium Member
It is a bit of an odd one "westernized eastern religions" ;) However it most certainly does happen. A culture takes an idea from elsewhere and absorbs it, in the process the idea is altered to make it more palatable to the absorbing culture.
Whether the end result can be called an Eastern religion anymore is up for debate I guess.
:) The day my temple puts in pews, we have singalongs, they use candles instead of diyas, have non-veg lunches in the basement, or have funerals is the day I'm packing up for India. :)
 

Erebus

Well-Known Member
:) The day my temple puts in pews, we have singalongs, they use candles instead of diyas, have non-veg lunches in the basement, or have funerals is the day I'm packing up for India. :)

I hope it doesn't come to that. The good news is that there are always groups that try to preserve the culture and traditions of a religion. It sounds like your temple is traditional and that's something worth defending IMO :)
 

Vinayaka

devotee
Premium Member
I hope it doesn't come to that. The good news is that there are always groups that try to preserve the culture and traditions of a religion. It sounds like your temple is traditional and that's something worth defending IMO :)

Thank you, and I agree. We don't even have carpet, unlike some. I'd vote for a dress code, but that won't happen soon. :)
 

Vinayaka

devotee
Premium Member
Except shorts right ?

I know two temples that give out dhotis at the door. We frown on shorts but allow it. Hats come off though. Again, this is pretty cultural. In parts of South India, and in Singapore, its mostly shirts off for men.
 

no-body

Well-Known Member
Difficult to say. What I do think is western religions/spirituality absorbing more and more of eastern thought subconsciously. I can't see the west adopting eastern religions and practices as anymore than brief fads though. Of course this is if we are just talking about mainstream popular beliefs as seen in the media and pop culture... the "nones" and "spiritual but not religious" will most certainly increase more and more quietly in the back round as always.

But who knows for sure I think at least in the U.S. a lot of it has to do with economy and quality of life. One wrong move and we will see an explosion of fundamentalism and a clinging to western religious beliefs if it all goes to hell.
 
I think that Westerners (me included) are generally open or attracted to the exotic, and learning about other belief systems. While Buddhism (albeit a very Westernised, sanitised one) was popular back then, with the rise of meditation, vegetarianism and the health food movement, and yoga, Hindu ideas seem to be in vogue.

I am not sure if this is a Dharmic-religious phenomenon, but I do feel that as another poster before me, most are either agnostic or quite syncretic in their spirituality.

Even traditional, more familiar religions are opening up to new ideas. I just came back from Compline a few hours ago from the 'centre cathedral' Anglican church in the cluster of cities in my area: their service was a noticeable mix of the old and new:

In the whole service, everyone was silent... while in the centre was an icon of Christ. Anglican clergypersons holding candles surrounded the icon, clad in white robes (and one with incense) and prayed the Angelus prayer... the rest of the service was Gregorian chanting in English with prayers, with an entirely silent laity. The Cathedral was dark and only lit by candlelight. No sermon!

:p I am not sure if what I saw was weird, or beautiful, or very novel... but whatever it was, it was aesthetic and attractive, and something I've never seen before, even in traditional Christian circles!
 
Last edited:

BruceDLimber

Well-Known Member
What is the future of eastern religions in the west? Do you think that they'll continue to grow? Or will they face great opposition from primarily Abrahamic religions?

You clearly overlook the fact that some Abrahamic religions are indeed "eastern" themselves--or at least, more so than Christianity!

For example, where do you think the Baha'i Faith first arose?

Peace, :)

Bruce
 

Caladan

Agnostic Pantheist
True enough in most cases if you excluded Singapore and Japan.
These are the two nations that came to my mind as first world nations.
But I think that is not the whole story. Some religious world views are more open to advancement then others. Types of Hinduism, Taoism and Buddhism are very much open to science. In fact Advaita Vedanta was Erwin Schrödinger inspiration for his Ideas on Quantum Physics. Along with Albert Einstein's views on Buddhism shows that these faiths show some flexibility in this area.
However, the leaders of world science in the past few centuries do come from Judeo-Christian background. It is possible that some forms of Dharmic faiths (and I see you also included Taosim) are opened to science, but this is certainly not exclusive to them. To make my point, I don't see members of Dharmic faiths to be in any standing of advantage in producing or understanding science.

This is true in some cases not in all. Take one group ( this group is clearly not my cup of tea ) Iskcon they seem to be doing great in Eastern Europe. They are very traditional in all out ward appearance.
I know that Dharmic faiths can also be very conservative when absorbed into western cultures, however there is certainly a strong trend (this trend has been going for well over a century actually) to present religions such as Buddhism as an alternative to strict patriarchal Christian civilization which is at odds with the avalanche of moderns science. This trend is rooted in the orientalism phenomena of the early 20th and late 19th centuries where scholars presented Buddhism to their audience out of its original native context which truly fostered all the baggage of superstitions they tried to go around.

If I may try to read between the lines on your comments. Over time on RF, on the subject of Eastern religions, you have made this type of comment. I feel that you think in many ways Eastern Religions have gotten a free ride ethically and culturally. There strengths have been exaggerated and weakness over looked. If this is truly what you are getting at, I agree. A perfect example is Buddhism they have gotten a free ride when it comes to religious persecution. Look at the civil war in Sri Lanka. Much of it due to the Buddhist population believing the Lord Buddha floated over on a cloud and gave the Island to the Buddhists. Those Hindu Tamils just have no place their. This belief is both unscientific and hurtful to humanity.
Yes, I believe you understand where I am coming from. While there is much that interest me in Buddhist and Vedic cultures and philosophies, there is also much that is simply not compatible with the way many members try to present these faiths, usually in an anachronistic ideal alternative to the 'Abrahamic' shadow which has been resting over their social niche. My guess is, that if they grew in native Hindu or Buddhist cultures, and they aspired for freedom, liberal, or even violence free individual way of life they would trade the term 'Abrahamic' with 'Dharmic'.

To expand on that, I joined this forum because I truly have a passion for the study and research of world religion. And it has became too banal to see people idealize their adopted religion as some sort of an ID that certifies that they are above the petty worldly problems of other members.
It is unrealistic, non constructive for an open discussion, and simply not true. I came here to sharpen my study of world religion, not listen to how other members are inferior and others are superior without giving me any really merit based information to why that is so.
 

Vinayaka

devotee
Premium Member
You clearly overlook the fact that some Abrahamic religions are indeed "eastern" themselves--or at least, more so than Christianity!

For example, where do you think the Baha'i Faith first arose?

Peace, :)

Bruce

I think you have the term 'Eastern' confused. Most of us use it as a word that is more or less synonymous with 'dharmic' not as in geographic.

But of course I could be wrong. If you can state some Bahai beliefs that are in line with dharmic faiths, I can change my mind. Certainly your views on reincarnation, as expressed recently in another thread, aren't. All eastern faiths I know of believe in reincarnation and karma.
 

jtartar

Well-Known Member
I was originally going to post this in the Dharmic DIR, but I thought it would interesting to see the opinions of others as well.

What is the future of eastern religions in the west? Do you think that they'll continue to grow? Or will they face great opposition from primarily Abrahamic religions? Do they have a greater affinity with modern progressive movements, science, and technology, that would allow them to grow in the west, over other religions?

dyanaprajna,
To understand the question you are asking, you will have to understand that true religion will NEVER be popular with this world. Remember what Jesus said about his people. He said that they would be hated by all nations, Matt 10:22, 24:9. Jesus' disciples would be hated because they are NO part of this world, John 15:18-20. Jesus said that many would try to gain the Kingdom of God but would be unable, only a few will gain the Kingdom of God, Matt 7:13,14, Luke 13:23,24.
The thing that makes it hard for people to realize what God requires, is , people are looking in the wrong places. People think it is the most popular, the richest, the smartest, but look what is true, 1Cor 1:20-28.
Consider this important principle, Luke 6:20-27.
Also this, Luke 10:21, God has hidden the information about the kingdom from the wise and intellectual ones and revealed them to babes.
Consider how the religious leaders of the first century viewed the apostles, Acts 4:13. Jesus gave some things to identify his followers, John 13:34,35, Matt 28:19,20, Matt 24:14, Acts 5:29, 1Pet 2:21, 1John 2:4-6, 3:11-16.
 

Vinayaka

devotee
Premium Member
dyanaprajna,
To understand the question you are asking, you will have to understand that true religion will NEVER be popular with this world. Remember what Jesus said about his people. He said that they would be hated by all nations, Matt 10:22, 24:9. Jesus' disciples would be hated because they are NO part of this world, John 15:18-20. Jesus said that many would try to gain the Kingdom of God but would be unable, only a few will gain the Kingdom of God, Matt 7:13,14, Luke 13:23,24.
The thing that makes it hard for people to realize what God requires, is , people are looking in the wrong places. People think it is the most popular, the richest, the smartest, but look what is true, 1Cor 1:20-28.
Consider this important principle, Luke 6:20-27.
Also this, Luke 10:21, God has hidden the information about the kingdom from the wise and intellectual ones and revealed them to babes.
Consider how the religious leaders of the first century viewed the apostles, Acts 4:13. Jesus gave some things to identify his followers, John 13:34,35, Matt 28:19,20, Matt 24:14, Acts 5:29, 1Pet 2:21, 1John 2:4-6, 3:11-16.

I fail to understand how quoting the Christian bible is related to this topic.
 

Kilgore Trout

Misanthropic Humanist
What is the future of eastern religions in the west? Do you think that they'll continue to grow?

I think they will continue to grow for the foreseeable future. Or, at least, new-agey, westernized bits and pieces of eastern religions, as these elements tend to appeal to a growing contingent of the population who like to pick and choose various esoteric, feel-good beliefs and superstitions.

Or will they face great opposition from primarily Abrahamic religions?

They may face opposition from traditional, western religions, but I doubt they will have much influence in how much eastern religious concepts spread.

Do they have a greater affinity with modern progressive movements, science, and technology, that would allow them to grow in the west, over other religions?

I'd say they have a greater affinity with spiritual, new-agey, and mystical movements, but some proponents do try to attach scientific significance to eastern religions in an attempt to gain rational validity. However, it's doubtful that this appeals to, or draws, people who have a sincere scientific perspective and understanding.
 

dyanaprajna2011

Dharmapala


You clearly overlook the fact that some Abrahamic religions are indeed "eastern" themselves--or at least, more so than Christianity!

For example, where do you think the Baha'i Faith first arose?

Peace, :)

Bruce

Vinayaka said:
I think you have the term 'Eastern' confused. Most of us use it as a word that is more or less synonymous with 'dharmic' not as in geographic.

But of course I could be wrong. If you can state some Bahai beliefs that are in line with dharmic faiths, I can change my mind. Certainly your views on reincarnation, as expressed recently in another thread, aren't. All eastern faiths I know of believe in reincarnation and karma.

Vinayaka pretty much said what I was thinking. Eastern religion, in religious studies terminology, denotes the dharmic and taoic religions. Bahai is considered an Abrahamic religion, part of the western religious traditions. When I studied Bahai, I didn't really see anything in it that reminded me of eastern religions. It seemed more in line with the Shia Islam that it was born out of. This isn't a bad thing, or it doesn't make it a bad religion, but it does make it have very little to do with eastern religion.
 

Sha'irullah

رسول الآلهة
school-yoga-class-draws-religious-protest-from-christians.html

A yoga class what brought to a elementary school with little worries by the staff. Although it causes religious backlash it shows the neutrality of the practices of eastern religions. The constant spread of yoga and sharma in the new Age Thought is very abundant and obvious. Christianity slowly syncretizes with Buddhist philosophy and Hindu mysticism daily. I even see it on RF itself by members who identify with both sides. Eastern theism has always been highly open and diverse and it promotes the inert desires of the liberal world that dominates American society. So obviously it is spreading and even though it is slow it is spreading significantly enough to a point where it is acknowledged which leads to it being loved and hated.
 

Raban

Hagian
I think that we will see an emergence of various religious movements that mix Western and Eastern religions. I expect that Buddhist Christianity will become more of a thing. Where I am, there are many Christians, (I live in a predominately Christian area) who are interested in Buddhism in particular, but also Taoism and Sikhism.
 

Sha'irullah

رسول الآلهة
I expect that Buddhist Christianity will become more of a thing. Where I am, there are many Christians, (I live in a predominately Christian area) who are interested in Buddhism in particular, but also Taoism and Sikhism.

Heard of Buddhislam? It has 3 denominations...Zenshiism, Zenshiism, and Zensufism.

There is also Mahayana Christianity, Navachristianity, and Third Islam.
 

LegionOnomaMoi

Veteran Member
Premium Member
I think they will continue to grow for the foreseeable future. Or, at least, new-agey, westernized bits and pieces of eastern religions, as these elements tend to appeal to a growing contingent of the population who like to pick and choose various esoteric, feel-good beliefs and superstitions.

Actually, that started a few hundred years ago (or longer). For example: "The notion of ‘Hinduism’ is itself a Western-inspired abstraction, which until the nineteenth century bore little or no resemblance to the diversity of Indian religious belief and practice." (from King, R. (1999). Orientalism and Religion: Post-Colonial Theory, India and" The Mystic East". Routledge). King quotes part an interesting recording of a conversation between Thierry G. Verhelst (who was a member of the PhD working group behind the volumes Religions and Cultures) and "an Indian intellectual from Tamil Nadu". The question was "Are you a Hindu?".

The answer was "No, I grew critical of it because of casteism ... Actually, you should not ask people if they are Hindu. This does not mean much. If you ask them what their religion is, they will say, ‘I belong to this caste.’"

King is hardly alone, being neither the first nor certainly the last to argue that "Hinduism" began as a Western categorization and (for those who disagree that it was a Western construction) became a politically and socio-culturally based synthesis in opposition to colonialism. So on the one hand there are those like B. K. Pennington whose 2005 Was Hinduism Invented? Britons, Indians, and the Colonial Construction of Religion (Oxford University Press) is arguing exactly that (that it was an invention or construction of colonial dynamics), and numerous others who see varying degrees of continuity, authenticity through nationhood and constructed self-identity, etc.

The extreme constructionalist versions seem to me to be obviously problematic, as we actually have texts written long before Europeans began to travel into the places like India, China, etc. But I don't think anybody (at least among historians, philosophers of religion, etc.) would argue that European conceptions were grafted onto Eastern practices and beliefs.


They may face opposition from traditional, western religions, but I doubt they will have much influence in how much eastern religious concepts spread.
They already have. As a concept, "religion" itself is (or is at least partly) a Western model into which the beliefs, practices, and traditions of other cultures have been forced. Two particularly influential works here are Dubuisson's L'Occident et la religion: Mythes, science et idéologie & Masuzawa The Invention of World Religions: Or, How European Universalism Was Preserved in the Language of Pluralism.




I'd say they have a greater affinity with spiritual, new-agey, and mystical movements
The term "mysticism" has similar problems. The modern use of the term comes from Christian polemic discouse of the 1500's, and (as far as I know) was first applied to the practices and beliefs of the "Orient" by Cowper in 1781. However, in "The Making of Modern “Mysticism”" Schmidt states: "Through the early decades of the eighteenth century, the English category of “mysticism” did not exist. The prevailing classification instead was “mystical theology,” and it signified a specific devotional branch within Christian divinity." Moreover, while the term was used almost entirely as a derogatory one, it seems that when applied to "the Orient" and Eastern "mysticism" it was more nuanced, sort of like the myth of the "noble savage": a romanticized ideal which somehow both positive and yet only via its relationship to the idealization of "primitive" folk which was a popular theme of the day.

Historically, the idea of "religion" as the belief in things like gods, animism, creation cosmologies, myths, etc., was one of practice, while ethics and morality were communal and based on social norms rather than religious beliefs, while philosophy (where it existed) was a seperate discipline altogether.
 

BruceDLimber

Well-Known Member
[The Baha'i Faith has] very little to do with eastern religion.

Save that you totally ignore the fact that it explicitly recognizes Hinduism and Buddhism (as well as the Zoroastrian) Faiths as legitimate members of the ongoing sequence of revealed religions!

Granted, it might be better described as "universal" given how widespread it's become already: indeed, the Britannica lists its scope (in terms of how many places worldwide its adherents live) as second only to Christianity.

(BTW, "dharma" simply isn't part of our vocabulary, though we doubtless express equivalent things in our own terminology.)

Peace, :)

Bruce
 
Last edited:

Vinayaka

devotee
Premium Member
Sorry, but stating that another religion exists isn't exactly an Eastern belief. Try moksha, dharma, reincarnation, samsara, nirvana, divinity within man, monism ... and the list goes on.
 
Top