eating Meat? good or bad

[enchanted_one1975]

Probably true, but shouldn't those of us who have the financial ability to forego meat do it? A few of us here have said that eating meat isn't 'good or bad', it's down to circumstance. I have to travel a round trip (by bus - I don't drive) of 80 miles to stock up on veggie food, but I do it because I can afford to.

Seems to me that with that much inconvenience and extra cash you should consider buying some extra land nearby and starting your own garden. Then you could control what types of chemicals (if any) are used on your non-meat items.

 

[Noaidi]

Very true! Only the soil here is waterlogged peat - all I could grow is turnips.

 

[Wannabe Yogi]

Those that think of it as murder need to realize that a seriously larger number of plants are killed to replace one helping of meat,

The cow eats plants then we eat the the cow. 80% of the corn and 95% of the oats in the US are eaten by livestock. To produce one pound of beef it takes 16 pounds of edible grain.

 

[Madhuri]

It is founded. It may or may not be completely true. But what is the difference? It is without a doubt true that plants and animals live. So, let's say plants can't feel pain. What you're saying is that if something doesn't suffer, even if it's alive, it's OK to eat it?

I haven't read past your post so somebody may have responded already...

If it were proven that plants were as conscious/sentient as animals and felt pain and emotion like animals, then i would be quite devistated. I would not stop eating them, because I have to survive. I would probably limit myself to some extent, for example by only eating the ingredients that don't involve killing the plant (because picking fruit from a treee is not killing the tree).

However, I do not believe that plant life has the level of consciousness, emotions of pain perception that animals do.

You wrote: What you're saying is that if something doesn't suffer, even if it's alive, it's OK to eat it?

I don't see life in black and white. There are different levels of morality, with some things being better or wrose than others. For example, if I had to kill a human that is fully aware and experiences pain vs a human that is unconscious and not going to feel pain then it seems more moral to me to kill the human who will experience no suffering.

The point of eating is that we have to do it to survive. But the life of an animal and the life of a plant is vastly different. To minimise the suffering that sustaining my own life naturally causes, I go for the most moral option (and the most practical considering that one can survive healthy without meat but not without plant life), which in my opinion is reducing my impact on the suffering of sentient and emotional creatures that are not too unlike myself.

Furthermore, I do not like the word 'ok' in this context. I would elaborate by saying it is morally permissible to act in any necessary way ensures one's survival. Fortunately today, eating meat is not necessary for survival for most people in developed nations. Add to that the methods of farming and production that is the result of high population demands and the immorality of it all is utterly shameful.

 

[DallasApple]

The cow eats plants then we eat the the cow. 80% of the corn and 95% of the oats in the US are eaten by livestock. To produce one pound of beef it takes 16 pounds of edible grain.

So we should kill all the cows so we have more corn and oats for ourselves?

Love

Dallas

 

[Wannabe Yogi]

So we should kill all the cows so we have more corn and oats for ourselves?

Love

Dallas

Or stop raising them for food.

 

[DallasApple]

Or stop raising them for food.

So just let them eat all the oats and corn ?

Love

Dallas

 

[Madhuri]

Flat out we are animals. Like it or not we eat meat and its natural for humans to do so.

The problem with videos that portray cruelty to animals is that its often often used as a sounding board to support vegetarianism solely based on its shock value. To me that's misguided if the issue is focused on issues involving abstinence towards meat eating and thusly points out extreme reasons as to why one should not eat meat. That's bogus and as long there are humans there will never be complete abstinence. Never gonna happen.

To address the issues of suffering one needs to quit trying to achieve the "goal" of complete vegetarianism for everybody ad nauseum because its simply unattainable. Additionally, as to the scheme of things, note that humans overall tend to be among the more "merciful" predators in the animal kingdom, and is exemplified by many slaughter houses that are required by law to properly stun prior to slaughter. In that light, Its not the really an issue of vegetarianism here and to whether its good or bad for people to eat meat which needs to be addressed, but rather, is the reduction of undue suffering caused to which I can agree fully with anyone that it is an area that needs to be strictly enforced, and monitored.

Just so that you know, I support vegetarianism and those who practice such by way that it shows a sensitivity towards suffering and holds a hearty respect to those who do so, but in the reality of life vegetarianism is arguably just as cruel and harsh towards animals and other living beings as slaughter can be itself. As an example, I used to farm as a young-un and can first hand tell you what turns up underneath the plow, disc, and planter in the fields and in various machinery used for the processing of grains, corn, and such. There is much to be addressed on both sides of the issue, and neither position eliminates suffering nor will it. Best we can hope for is to be mindful on a personal level, and avoid (boycott) the places and operations that shows an intentional disregard to pain and undue suffering in other living beings. -NM-

You make very good points although I would like make some of my own:

Whether or not the videos we see do not represent every slaughter house of farm does not take away from the fact that we know farmed animals are seen as little more than a product, kept as slaves and suffer greatly when killed. I've heard of and also know personally people who have worked at slaughter houses as well as people who have visited them. It isn't pretty.

I agree that it is probably not possible for all humans on earth to be vegetarian. It is, however, possible to reduce meat intake and make a significant change to the methods of farming animals if the demand for meat decreases.

It is not possible to live and not cause suffering to other living entities. You are right that even in the production of plant life, there is killing of earth creatures. My only argument here is that there is still a difference between the experiences of an insect compared to a cow (for example). The level of awareness, emotional capacity and pain is lower in some forms of life than others. The kind of animals we farm for meat tend to be much more like humans in these areas than do creatures such as insects and worms etc.

 

[Panda]

The cow eats plants then we eat the the cow. 80% of the corn and 95% of the oats in the US are eaten by livestock. To produce one pound of beef it takes 16 pounds of edible grain.

Not really an issue though as we have a huge surplus of food.

 

[DallasApple]

Can we kill them and bury them if they start to eat too much of the corn and oats?

Love

Dallas

 

[Madhuri]

So just let them eat all the oats and corn ?

Love

Dallas

I think the point is that if we stop raising them for food, there owuld not be so many of them and they would just be grazing on grass...

 

[DallasApple]

I think the point is that if we stop raising them for food, there owuld not be so many of them and they would just be grazing on grass...

O>k...so we let them die down?

And whos grass are they going to graze on?..Like in a national forest or something..A preserve?

Love

Dallas

 

[MissAlice]

Be great to have some on my property then me and my dad wouldn't have to fight about who mows the lawn. It is a pain in the but to have to maneuver that huge machine. >_< Would probably reduce the amount of reduce the amount of pollution the mower emits.

And then the ungodly amount of free fertilizer I could use for my gardens.

 

[Wannabe Yogi]

Not really an issue though as we have a huge surplus of food.

It is an issue because of environmental impact. More nitrogen flows into the ocean from American agriculture then all the natural sources of nitrogen combined. It damages the oceans.

Also much of the gains due to the green revolution in food supplies might becoming to and end due to lack of water. So food shortages are predicted for the future.

 

[DallasApple]

Be great to have some on my property then me and my dad wouldn't have to fight about who mows the lawn. It is a pain in the but to have to maneuver that huge machine. >_< Would probably reduce the amount of reduce the amount of pollution the mower emits.

And then the ungodly amount of free fertilizer I could use for my gardens.

NO!!! I will NOT pick up cow poop!!!

I already had Rottweillers that was big enough!!!!

Love

Dallas

 

[DallasApple]

Be great to have some on my property then me and my dad wouldn't have to fight about who mows the lawn. It is a pain in the but to have to maneuver that huge machine. >_< Would probably reduce the amount of reduce the amount of pollution the mower emits.

And then the ungodly amount of free fertilizer I could use for my gardens.

What about people that live in an apartment?

Can cows be trained to go in the litter box?

Love

Dallas

 

[MissAlice]

Yeah I guess you'd have to live on land.

I remember seeing an article from South America about a guy who fixed the solution of overgrowing grass in his country by using the means of cows and other grass grazing animals. I wish I could remember the name of it. Anyway it was pretty interesting what he had to say about the environment and a lot of the stuff we really don't need.

 

[Wannabe Yogi]

O>k...so we let them die down?

And whos grass are they going to graze on?..Like in a national forest or something..A preserve?

Right now they use Private property, national forest and BLM land. Cattle graze on grass most of their life. The last few months they are put on a feed lot and fattened up with grains so you get that nice marbled meat with lines of fat running through it.

 

[Madhuri]

O>k...so we let them die down?

And whos grass are they going to graze on?..Like in a national forest or something..A preserve?

Love

Dallas

They would probably graze the grass of those persons who keep cows. I doubt that they would be allowed to roam around the streets freely. Cows can exist quite happily in a pasture and taking their milk does not cause them suffering. One could also keep them for the manure. They can be useful without causing them pain or farming them for meat.

 

[Madhuri]

What about people that live in an apartment?

Can cows be trained to go in the litter box?

Love

Dallas

Why would people in an apartment need to keep a cow?