Economic consequences of Evolution vs. Creation.

[ADigitalArtist]

I only have a high school education in evolutionary theory. I took Biology in high school. By the time I got to college, I chose a different course of study. All I remember is that evolutionary theory has some fatal flaws and that they anticipate they will be resolved soon. Although they never have.

If you have to rely on vague memory from a highly truncated low level education on the subject then there won't be much to discuss until you're given a whole new crash course on what evolution is.

Suffice to say that the scientific world doesn't consider TOE to be 'fatally flawed,' only a tiny and diminishing number of creationists do.

 

[Brian Schuh]

John Prine, "Mr. Peabody came with the world's biggest shovel, he torched all the timber then stripped all the land, he dug for his coal till the land was forsaken, then chaulked it all up to (Darwin's) progress of man."

 

[Guy Threepwood]

Part of the truth of a theorey is in its effect of people and how they behave. Evolution was used by Nazi's to justify what they did. I believe we can all agree that social darwinism is false, no matter if evolution is true or not, a government has no right to decide who is fit to survive or not survive.

If you look at the Torah, the Hebrews were not "fit to survive." Even Moses under inspiration of God said that "I did not choose you because your were the mightiest people, or the greatest people, or even the most intelligent people, in fact you are the weakest, smallest people." (That is paraphrased.) In fact the Hebrews survived these several thousands years against all odds. Which shows that survival of the fittest doesn't hold water.

The Creation Museam of Kentucky creates more jobs for Kentucky and pays more federal tax to keep the Feds afloat than all evolutionists combined ever had.

Look at the story of Abraham, his wife was barren and it is probably closer to the truth that he himself was impotent. If survival of the fittest were true, Abraham beat all odds.

No, there is no survival of the fittest. It just doesn't hold water.

There does seem to be a correlation between people's beliefs about evolution and the economy-

It's a curious reverse correlation though, where many liberals passionately defend the principles of a free-market meritocracy in evolution, survival of the fittest, as the most elegant & efficient method of achieving success in species- any meddling from a creative agency would mess things up.

Yet they hold the exact opposite ideology for the economy. And vice versa for many conservatives I guess!


Revoltingest may be an exception to this rule here- but I get the feeling he is an exception to many rules!

 

[sayak83]

There does seem to be a correlation between people's beliefs about evolution and the economy-

It's a curious reverse correlation though, where many liberals passionately defend the principles of a free-market meritocracy in evolution, survival of the fittest, as the most elegant & efficient method of achieving success in species- any meddling from a creative agency would mess things up.

Yet they hold the exact opposite ideology for the economy. And vice versa for many conservatives I guess!


Revoltingest may be an exception to this rule here- but I get the feeling he is an exception to many rules!

There is a difference between knowing that floods are a natural and frequent occurrence and saying that because floods are natural we should take no steps to prevent it.

 

[Revoltingest]

John Prine, "Mr. Peabody came with the world's biggest shovel, he torched all the timber then stripped all the land, he dug for his coal till the land was forsaken, then chaulked it all up to (Darwin's) progress of man."

Perhaps this documentary will help....

 

[Brian Schuh]

Perhaps this documentary will help....

about as intelligent as my high school biology class. The US could save a lot of $ if they just show this video, instead of pretending that what they do present makes sense.

 

[Revoltingest]

about as intelligent as my high school biology class.

Hmm.....your school doesn't sound so great.
There are much better venues to learn about how evolution works

 

[Brian Schuh]

There is a difference between knowing that floods are a natural and frequent occurrence and saying that because floods are natural we should take no steps to prevent it.

Adolf Hitler thought we could prevent retardation and schizophrenia by mass sterilizations of retarded men and schizophrenics. In present day Germany, most of the retardation doesn't exist anymore, but there is still the same percent of schizophrenics per capita than before the sterilizations. Which goes to show that schizophrenia is not genetic, whereas much of retardation is. One mistake of Hitler in claiming schizophrenia is genetic, and a whole generation of men and women were sterilized. This is Hitler's reaction to evolutionary theory. You still believe evolution has done any good?

 

[Guy Threepwood]

You forget that evolution and survival of the fittest was first an economic theory not a biological one. And you forget that Hinduism has been teaching evolution for thousands of years as a religious belief. Charles Darwin just provided some scientific evidence for a belief that has existed for thousands of year.

It was also a logical extension of classical physics, by which all the wonders of the physical world accidentally fell into place by a similar process- a handful of simple laws, trial and error, - the same 'survival of the fittest' process Darwin applied to life also.

.

 

[Revoltingest]

Adolf Hitler thought we could prevent retardation and schizophrenia by mass sterilizations of retarded men and schizophrenics. In present day Germany, most of the retardation doesn't exist anymore, but there is still the same percent of schizophrenics per capita than before the sterilizations. Which goes to show that schizophrenia is not genetic, whereas much of retardation is. One mistake of Hitler in claiming schizophrenia is genetic, and a whole generation of men and women were sterilized. This is Hitler's reaction to evolutionary theory. You still believe evolution has done any good?

This is a topic which has been done many times here before.
What it all boils down to is that you can't demonize science just
by showing how someone uses it for evil purposes.
Hitler also used Xianity, engineering, military, industry, farming,
etc to fuel his conquests. Are they all therefore wrongful too?
Nah.
(Notice the reductio ad absurdum?)

 

[metis]

Adolf Hitler thought we could prevent retardation and schizophrenia by mass sterilizations of retarded men and schizophrenics. In present day Germany, most of the retardation doesn't exist anymore, but there is still the same percent of schizophrenics per capita than before the sterilizations. Which goes to show that schizophrenia is not genetic, whereas much of retardation is. One mistake of Hitler in claiming schizophrenia is genetic, and a whole generation of men and women were sterilized. This is Hitler's reaction to evolutionary theory. You still believe evolution has done any good?

The evidence points to the simple fact that schizophrenia is indeed genetic at least with some people. For example, my son suffers from bipolar disorder, and that problem goes back for generations on my wife's side of the family.

BTW, the NAZI's breathed air, so are you going to also suggest we all suffocate ourselves?

 

[metis]

I only have a high school education in evolutionary theory. I took Biology in high school. By the time I got to college, I chose a different course of study. All I remember is that evolutionary theory has some fatal flaws and that they anticipate they will be resolved soon. Although they never have.

Then you had a terribly misinformed teacher. The basic concepts of the ToE have been well evidenced to the point that no serious scientist doubts it any longer. Specifics, yes we often debate and disagree, but not the basic fact that organisms have evolved over billions of years.

 

[sayak83]

Adolf Hitler thought we could prevent retardation and schizophrenia by mass sterilizations of retarded men and schizophrenics. In present day Germany, most of the retardation doesn't exist anymore, but there is still the same percent of schizophrenics per capita than before the sterilizations. Which goes to show that schizophrenia is not genetic, whereas much of retardation is. One mistake of Hitler in claiming schizophrenia is genetic, and a whole generation of men and women were sterilized. This is Hitler's reaction to evolutionary theory. You still believe evolution has done any good?

I am incapable of responding to nonsensical posts. There are other people here who have this ability. I will politely refer you to them.

 

[Brian Schuh]

The evidence points to the simple fact that schizophrenia is indeed genetic at least with some people. For example, my son suffers from bipolar disorder, and that problem goes back for generations on my wife's side of the family.

BTW, the NAZI's breathed air, so are you going to also suggest we all suffocate ourselves?

You need to look at www.mindfreedom.org. Psychiatry doesn't treat disease, it treats dissension. For example, is it just a coincidence that all those diagnosed with mental illness in fascist Italy also were loudly opposed to Hitler? An American who grew a beard and refused to eat meat in the 60's was diagnosed as mentally ill, you can read about him on www.mindfreedom.org. Psychiatry doesn't treat disease, it treats those who stand against the status quo. Whereas, retardation much of the time IS genetic. One could claim that some dormant recessive gene causes schizophrenia, but that isn't believable when you look at the evidence.

 

[Brian Schuh]

I am incapable of responding to nonsensical posts. There are other people here who have this ability. I will politely refer you to them.

Which is amazing that you respond to my post, just to explain why you don't respond to my post. How nonsensical can you get?

 

[metis]

You need to look at www.mindfreedom.org. Psychiatry doesn't treat disease, it treats dissension. For example, is it just a coincidence that all those diagnosed with mental illness in fascist Italy also were loudly opposed to Hitler? An American who grew a beard and refused to eat meat in the 60's was diagnosed as mentally ill, you can read about him on www.mindfreedom.org. Psychiatry doesn't treat disease, it treats those who stand against the status quo. Whereas, retardation much of the time IS genetic. One could claim that some dormant recessive gene causes schizophrenia, but that isn't believable when you look at the evidence.

All you are doing is fabricating stories and I'm really not interested in fairy tales as I outgrew them decades ago. I'm quite familiar with this issue that goes well beyond just my son, but since your mind is closed there simply isn't any reason to go forth with you except just to point out your many errors like some others fortunately are doing here.

Maybe do some actual studying instead of just spouting nonsense, OK? Just a recommendation.

 

[viole]

Part of the truth of a theorey is in its effect of people and how they behave. Evolution was used by Nazi's to justify what they did. I believe we can all agree that social darwinism is false, no matter if evolution is true or not, a government has no right to decide who is fit to survive or not survive.

If you look at the Torah, the Hebrews were not "fit to survive." Even Moses under inspiration of God said that "I did not choose you because your were the mightiest people, or the greatest people, or even the most intelligent people, in fact you are the weakest, smallest people." (That is paraphrased.) In fact the Hebrews survived these several thousands years against all odds. Which shows that survival of the fittest doesn't hold water.

The Creation Museam of Kentucky creates more jobs for Kentucky and pays more federal tax to keep the Feds afloat than all evolutionists combined ever had.

Look at the story of Abraham, his wife was barren and it is probably closer to the truth that he himself was impotent. If survival of the fittest were true, Abraham beat all odds.

No, there is no survival of the fittest. It just doesn't hold water.

It is obvious that there is not such a thing as the survival of the fittest. If there were, there would be only one species around. Who is fitter? Me, or the average bacterium?

The rest of your post is just a list of non sequiturs. What the nazi thought or the amount of taxes that you get from the creation museum, don't warrant to conclude anything about evolution by natural selection being true or not. It would be like saying that atomic theory is false because you can make atomic bombs and you get more taxes from petrol companies.

But if you like to gauge objective truth claims against economic or moral returns, then be my guest.

Ciao

- viole

 

[Brian Schuh]

All you are doing is fabricating stories and I'm really not interested in fairy tales as I outgrew them decades ago. I'm quite familiar with this issue that goes well beyond just my son, but since your mind is closed there simply isn't any reason to go forth with you except just to point out your many errors like some others fortunately are doing here.

Maybe do some actual studying instead of just spouting nonsense, OK? Just a recommendation.

If you doubt that modern day psychiatry doesn't target those who stand against the status quo, then you are an idiot. Ophelia in Shakespeare went to the insane asylum because she was the only one to rebuke the king. Support Coalition International has forced the APA (American Psychiatric Association) to admit that mental illness is NOT caused by a biochemical imbalance nor a genetic fault.

As convincing evidence, after all German schizophrenics were sterilized in Germany, Germany has just the same number of schizophrenics today.

The biochemical model was created simply. We have drugs we know work, like thorazine and haldol, because they are heavy sedatives. Now we have to find out why they work. And we find that they all affect a brain hormone called dopamine. Now under that theory, we have created new drugs that don't sedate like abilify and geodon that work on dopamine, but that have proved no more effective than a placebo. Schizophrenia is NOT CAUSED by a BIOCHEMICAL IMBALANCE. NOR IS IT GENETIC. If you continue to believe so, in the face of all the evidence, you are ignorant.

 

[metis]

If you doubt that modern day psychiatry doesn't target those who stand against the status quo, then you are an idiot. Ophelia in Shakespeare went to the insane asylum because she was the only one to rebuke the king. Support Coalition International has forced the APA (American Psychiatric Association) to admit that mental illness is NOT caused by a biochemical imbalance nor a genetic fault.

As convincing evidence, after all German schizophrenics were sterilized in Germany, Germany has just the same number of schizophrenics today.

The biochemical model was created simply. We have drugs we know work, like thorazine and haldol, because they are heavy sedatives. Now we have to find out why they work. And we find that they all affect a brain hormone called dopamine. Now under that theory, we have created new drugs that don't sedate like abilify and geodon that work on dopamine, but that have proved no more effective than a placebo. Schizophrenia is NOT CAUSED by a BIOCHEMICAL IMBALANCE. NOR IS IT GENETIC. If you continue to believe so, in the face of all the evidence, you are ignorant.

Ya, maybe it's because I don't know anything about psychology which is why I was tapped to teach a course on it a couple of decades ago at Chrysler Corp. Granted it's not my area of specialization, but there obviously there must have been a reason why I was selected.

I'm certainly far from being an expert on the subject, but between my academic studies and my own research done in order to better understand my son's condition (he tried to commit suicide twice almost 30 years ago), I think I've learned a few things on this over several decades.
.

 

[Kilgore Trout]

Can the mods please move this thread to the appropriate jokes and games forum?

Thank you.