Egypt

[Meow Mix]

Just as the printing press helped Europe shrug off religious Dark Age Catholic rule, I sincerely hope it is the case that online social media is helping the Middle East to shrug off Dark Age Muslim rule.

According to a CNN article here (Middle East changes may defy history - CNN.com), there was a recent "telephone interview" which found that only 12-15% of responders trust the Muslim Brotherhood and only 12% "picked the achievement of Sharia law as a priority over national power, democracy and development."

I for one hope these figures are accurate; the last thing the world and especially Egyptians need is a repeat of the Iranian revolution: going from bad to worse by rewarding protestors with a despotic theocracy.

Let Egypt be free!

 

[LuisDantas]

Amen.

 

[Songbird]

Just as the printing press helped Europe shrug off religious Dark Age Catholic rule, I sincerely hope it is the case that online social media is helping the Middle East to shrug off Dark Age Muslim rule.

According to a CNN article here (Middle East changes may defy history - CNN.com), there was a recent "telephone interview" which found that only 12-15% of responders trust the Muslim Brotherhood and only 12% "picked the achievement of Sharia law as a priority over national power, democracy and development."

I for one hope these figures are accurate; the last thing the world and especially Egyptians need is a repeat of the Iranian revolution: going from bad to worse by rewarding protestors with a despotic theocracy.

Let Egypt be free!

Yes! Was just talking about this in class - specifically the comparison of the printing press to the Internet, and the Utopian visions of both.

 

[Bismillah]

I would seriously revise any comparison between the Brotherhood and the Iranian revolution. Likewise I would seriously reconsider the accuracy of these polls when the Brotherhood is the only political party to ever have offered serious opposition in the wake of "Mubarak elections" the kinds that had 99.8% approval ratings.

 

[Meow Mix]

I would seriously revise any comparison between the Brotherhood and the Iranian revolution. Likewise I would seriously reconsider the accuracy of these polls when the Brotherhood is the only political party to ever have offered serious opposition in the wake of "Mubarak elections" the kinds that had 99.8% approval ratings.

One thing I know about the Brotherhood is that one of its main goals is Sharia, however. From my experience this can range from seriously bad for the people or nebulously dubious at best (as it seems to depend on who's doing the interpreting, and even at its most lenient interpretation it still seems to write intolerance and oppression into the law).

So, while I agree the poll probably isn't representative, I hope for the sake of all Egyptians that it is. Let Egypt be free, let it not become a theocracy. Let Muslims do their thing but let others not be oppressed by them.

 

[England my lionheart]

Just as the printing press helped Europe shrug off religious Dark Age Catholic rule, I sincerely hope it is the case that online social media is helping the Middle East to shrug off Dark Age Muslim rule.

According to a CNN article here (Middle East changes may defy history - CNN.com), there was a recent "telephone interview" which found that only 12-15% of responders trust the Muslim Brotherhood and only 12% "picked the achievement of Sharia law as a priority over national power, democracy and development."

I for one hope these figures are accurate; the last thing the world and especially Egyptians need is a repeat of the Iranian revolution: going from bad to worse by rewarding protestors with a despotic theocracy.

Let Egypt be free!

I think they are a fair reflection,when Kareem Amir "the Egyptian Blogger" was put in prison 4 years ago for insulting Islam and President Mubarak many Muslims joined the campaign to free him,considering he had rejected Islam this is quite telling and i think the reason for this is online social Media and i concur "Let Egypt be free"

 

[Valjean]

What Egypt may end up with is a military state along the lines of Myanmar/Burma.
Egypt has a huge military which also doubles as a multi-enterprise mega-corporation, so their tentacles are everywhere; a corporatocracy with tanks.
Weather they'd welcome the Muslim brotherhood into their fold is an interesting question. They're both authoritarian organizations and both concerned with law and order.

On the other hand, their major "industry" is tourism, and police states make tourists nervous, I think.

 

[Meow Mix]

What Egypt may end up with is a military state along the lines of Myanmar/Burma.
Egypt has a huge military which also doubles as a multi-enterprise mega-corporation, so their tentacles are everywhere; a corporatocracy with tanks.
Weather they'd welcome the Muslim brotherhood into their fold is an interesting question. They're both authoritarian organizations and both concerned with law and order.

On the other hand, their major "industry" is tourism, and police states make tourists nervous, I think.

Let's hope not. Egyptians just used their liberties to win this thing, they at least deserve not to be oppressed.

 

[Valjean]

I agree it would be a shame to find they'd escaped the skillet for the flame, but power vacuums are tricky things.
Let's hope they have an unusually progressive and civic-minded military.

 

[painted wolf]

I'm willing to give the Egyptian Military the benefit of the doubt.... they have been very restrained and haven't appeared to want to use this as a means of seizing power. Not that this can't change now that they have it.

But I'm happy to echo the sentiment: "Let Egypt be free" :jiggy:

wa:do

 

[Bismillah]

So, while I agree the poll probably isn't representative, I hope for the sake of all Egyptians that it is. Let Egypt be free, let it not become a theocracy. Let Muslims do their thing but let others not be oppressed by them.

You do realize that one of the major tenants of the Egyptian MB is rule by democracy?

Religious parties either float or drown according to merit such as the Ikhlas party in Yemen, the MB is a practical party with aspirations such as Shariah law to be long term goals. It would be stupid to consider that such ideals would be enacted in the short term.

 

[EiNsTeiN]

Well, let Egypt be free of course.
Let me clear out some misconceptions:

1- Muslim Brotherhood should not be compared to Iranian Islamists, because MB are moderate, rational and would accept liberalism to some extent (not perfect, but acceptable), while Iranian Islamists are radicals. I don't care about how many Egyptians support them, but I support their right to exist in the Egyptian political life.

2- Egypt wasn't ruled by Sharia.
We were ruled by French law, and Sharia contributed in certain issues only. Unlike what's known.

3- There is nothing as "dark age Muslim rule" because we weren't really under any Islamic rule.

4- Let Egypt be free, let democracy run, and let people choose what they want.

 

[kai]

I'm willing to give the Egyptian Military the benefit of the doubt.... they have been very restrained and haven't appeared to want to use this as a means of seizing power. Not that this can't change now that they have it.

But I'm happy to echo the sentiment: "Let Egypt be free" :jiggy:

wa:do

The Egyptian military didn't need to seize power , for all intents and purposes have been the power in Egypt for over 50 years. its not over by a long chalk! i hope Egypt really is free and stays free.

 

[Meow Mix]

You do realize that one of the major tenants of the Egyptian MB is rule by democracy?

Religious parties either float or drown according to merit such as the Ikhlas party in Yemen, the MB is a practical party with aspirations such as Shariah law to be long term goals. It would be stupid to consider that such ideals would be enacted in the short term.

Hopefully even if it's enacted in the long term the rights of others are remembered, though.

Like I said, Sharia law from what I've seen is at worst horrific and at best very nebulous -- even in its most lenient interpretations it still seems to write intolerance into the law (i.e. it's written into the law that homosexual love is illegal even in the most liberal interpretations I've seen. These liberal interpretations practically take a "see no evil" approach by admitting that it's illegal but that it's unlikely to be prosecuted since it requires four witnesses -- but this is still unacceptable because it writes taboo into the law that oppresses people).

This would be shameful. Egypt has an opportunity to build a free state of civil equality and liberty, a chance to become a beacon of civil standards in the East.

 

[Meow Mix]

Well, let Egypt be free of course.
Let me clear out some misconceptions:

1- Muslim Brotherhood should not be compared to Iranian Islamists, because MB are moderate, rational and would accept liberalism to some extent (not perfect, but acceptable), while Iranian Islamists are radicals. I don't care about how many Egyptians support them, but I support their right to exist in the Egyptian political life.

I agree they have a right to exist in political life, but hopefully Egypt will adopt a constitution that protects the rights of its people so that people can't vote other people's rights away based on their religious taboos.

2- Egypt wasn't ruled by Sharia.
We were ruled by French law, and Sharia contributed in certain issues only. Unlike what's known.

3- There is nothing as "dark age Muslim rule" because we weren't really under any Islamic rule.

4- Let Egypt be free, let democracy run, and let people choose what they want.

I know Egypt wasn't under Islamic rule, but I was responding to fears that such may become the case.

Yes, let people choose what they want, but let there be a constitution that protects people from what other people want, even if it's the majority. Let there be a constitution that prevents (and this is just a made up hypothetical, but gets my point across) 90% of the country from voting into law that violators of X religious taboo (even if they aren't religious) must be punished or some such oppressive nonsense.

Let Egypt be free, and let the people choose what they want -- but let the minority be protected. Please, no more bloggers being arrested for just stating their opinion on Islam. Please, no more homosexuals being murdered or women beaten in the streets.

Of course I realize that Islam isn't about these things, but perhaps you can see my worry after what happened in the Iranian revolution. We don't need another oppressive theocracy in the mideast. Please, let it become a free state that values civil liberties like freedom of religion, freedom of expression -- please let it not punish people for violating religious taboos that they might not even believe in.

It can be Islamic to its hearts content -- and indeed I hope so if that's what the people want, they deserve to bring that to fruition -- but please let it not forget civil liberties of others! Everyone deserves freedom of expression, freedom of religion, freedom FROM religion if desired, and if something like this is realized then Egypt will continue to be a beacon of civilization as it long has been. Maybe it can then act as a domino effect and rally other despotic nations to temper their injustice or inspire the people (as is already seeming to happen) to slip through the tyrants' fingers.

Maybe I'm just jealous at their opportunity, because despite the fact that we retain most of our civil liberties in America (and are making some headway on some injustices here), my government has long been corrupt. It's a strange thing to love your country and everything it stands for but abhor those that run it (and often abhor everything THEY stand for, too). I think if our constitution were written less well and education even more poorly implemented than it is they could have gotten away with a lot more than they already have... so a strong constitution will be important for Egypt, I think, and I hope beyond hope they have the power to build a nation with the civic values like we do in America (of life, liberty, persuit of happiness) but without the disgusting cancer that fills our gov't.

 

[Gloone]

Hopefully even if it's enacted in the long term the rights of others are remembered, though.

Like I said, Sharia law from what I've seen is at worst horrific and at best very nebulous -- even in its most lenient interpretations it still seems to write intolerance into the law (i.e. it's written into the law that homosexual love is illegal even in the most liberal interpretations I've seen. These liberal interpretations practically take a "see no evil" approach by admitting that it's illegal but that it's unlikely to be prosecuted since it requires four witnesses -- but this is still unacceptable because it writes taboo into the law that oppresses people).

This would be shameful. Egypt has an opportunity to build a free state of civil equality and liberty, a chance to become a beacon of civil standards in the East.

I could not agree with you more! There is always the aftermath that could lead to a lot of repercussions. Egyptians plan to set a day aside for protests, but I am uncertain that will be enough for any type of civility to remain throughout the country.