Einsten theory in qur'an/bible/torah

[Super Universe]

(It is. Singularities don't exist.)

Your metaphor still implies an absolute ordering which does not exist.

Singularities don't exist? Then your big bang came from what exactly?

And if Einstein's math is wrong then how come it explains black holes?

There is no absolute ordering of the multiverse? But there is. You can count them any way you want, this one first or this one eleventh. The way you choose to label them doesn't change the multiverse.

 

[PolyHedral]

What kind of density? The multiverse is eleven layers of space/time, not eleven dimensions.

The multiverse, as used in several interpretations of QM, is an (near-)infinite dimensional space. Eleven layers of 3D space would simply be a 4D space.

There are only three dimensions. One dimensional objects are the strings. The two dimensional object is the net or membrane of strings (think of a bed sheet made up of many strings) that essentially IS space/time. Space is not three dimensional, it's two dimensional. The third dimension is particles.

This is not any model of physics I'm familiar with, and the last sentence simply doesn't make sense. Particles are synonymous with the shape of spacetime AFAIK.

What exactly are the strings? They are a form of God energy that you're just beginning to understand.

Energy doesn't exist at this level of abstraction. You should actually be describing what energy emerges from.

Singularities don't exist? Then your big bang came from what exactly?

A very strange thing where the laws of physics were wildly different. However, there was no singularity, because there was no moment at the beginning of time.

And if Einstein's math is wrong then how come it explains black holes?

The singularity is the bit that's wrong, and possibly because the situation that it arises in simply does not happen. The physical evidence for black holes is still sketchy, and it's entirely possible that something about them means that the singularity in the middle simply does not arise for some reason.

There is no absolute ordering of the multiverse? But there is. You can count them any way you want, this one first or this one eleventh. The way you choose to label them doesn't change the multiverse.

You were originally referring to relativistic reference frames, which are not ordered. All (steady speed) reference frames are equally valid.

 

[Magic]

I have seen those verses in the Quran.you are stretching it quite a bit. All of the science in the Quran is all vauge ambiguous and are just like nostradamus

 

[Super Universe]

The multiverse, as used in several interpretations of QM, is an (near-)infinite dimensional space. Eleven layers of 3D space would simply be a 4D space.


This is not any model of physics I'm familiar with, and the last sentence simply doesn't make sense. Particles are synonymous with the shape of spacetime AFAIK.


Energy doesn't exist at this level of abstraction. You should actually be describing what energy emerges from.


A very strange thing where the laws of physics were wildly different. However, there was no singularity, because there was no moment at the beginning of time.


The singularity is the bit that's wrong, and possibly because the situation that it arises in simply does not happen. The physical evidence for black holes is still sketchy, and it's entirely possible that something about them means that the singularity in the middle simply does not arise for some reason.


You were originally referring to relativistic reference frames, which are not ordered. All (steady speed) reference frames are equally valid.

If you were to measure the multiverse you would find that it is a nearly infinite area, of course your measuring stick would not be in light years but something entirely new.

I did not say that the eleven layers of the multiverse are all three dimensional, space is two dimensional with particles being the third dimension. Particles are brought about by strings (one dimension) and membrane (two dimensions) but it can be said that they exist outside of dimensions one and two.

Don't think of the particles as warping space/time, think of space and particles as foreign to each other. Space forms the particle and continues to surround it but it does not exist inside of it, it is not a part of it anymore, like a mother giving birth they become separate.

You're correct, electromagnetic radiation energy does not exist at the string level. Scientists will have to add new definition to the word "energy" that applies to strings.

The laws of physics were wildly different at the big bang? There was no moment at the beginning of time? You think that everything began at the big bang, that was simply a temporary tear in another density of the multiverse that everything in our universe poured through and immediately condensed into three dimensional matter.

Relativity applies well to large three dimensional objects, not so well to one dimensional strings.

 

[sumaidi]

super universe, i'm not familiar with your theory ( 11 layers in multiverse, etc). i think we will never find model in universe that really in 1 and 2 dimension. even string (or line) and membrane. everything exactly are 3 dimensional. that just the way to understand the 3 dimension. paper for example, we can call it as membrane, however it has a thick ( 0.00xx mm). in my understanding everything has lenght, width and thick (3d). BTW, do you think the theory of relativity is correct? do you think it has been mention in any scripture?

 

[PolyHedral]

If you were to measure the multiverse you would find that it is a nearly infinite area, of course your measuring stick would not be in light years but something entirely new.

There's a difference between infinite dimensions and infinite area.

I did not say that the eleven layers of the multiverse are all three dimensional, space is two dimensional with particles being the third dimension. Particles are brought about by strings (one dimension) and membrane (two dimensions) but it can be said that they exist outside of dimensions one and two.
Don't think of the particles as warping space/time, think of space and particles as foreign to each other. Space forms the particle and continues to surround it but it does not exist inside of it, it is not a part of it anymore, like a mother giving birth they become separate.

You're not making sense, and are flying in the face of established physics.

The laws of physics were wildly different at the big bang? There was no moment at the beginning of time? You think that everything began at the big bang, that was simply a temporary tear in another density of the multiverse that everything in our universe poured through and immediately condensed into three dimensional matter.

You sound you are writing for Star Trek. I can't tell if that's even meaningful, let alone anything to do with physics.

BTW, do you think the theory of relativity is correct? do you think it has been mention in any scripture?

It is, and it can't be. The mathematics behind Relativity didn't exist when any holy texts were written. Even the Quran (the most recent) still predates it by 1,100 years. A holy text talking about Relativity would be like finding a transistor in medieval England.

 

[Super Universe]

There's a difference between infinite dimensions and infinite area.


You're not making sense, and are flying in the face of established physics.


You sound you are writing for Star Trek. I can't tell if that's even meaningful, let alone anything to do with physics.


It is, and it can't be. The mathematics behind Relativity didn't exist when any holy texts were written. Even the Quran (the most recent) still predates it by 1,100 years. A holy text talking about Relativity would be like finding a transistor in medieval England.

There is a difference between infinite dimensions and infinite area? Yes, there are three dimensions, as for area, well, space is much, much, much, more expansive than your telescopes can reveal and beyond space is the void, also known as infinite expansion "space".

I'm flying in the face of established physics? Right, you're supposed to conform, fit in, and not make waves otherwise you lose credibility. You've crawled into a box of their making, now you have to crawl out of it or you can stay inside of it and make a decent living teaching their theories but never discover a thing.

How do you think Einstein came up with Relativity? You probably think, "He just thought of it". He didn't.

How do you think it's possible for a human to name off Pi to twenty thousand places? You think "It's some kind of trick", it's not a trick, it's the universe. No matter what you do, no matter what you teach, the universe will never change to conform to a human idea.

 

[Super Universe]

super universe, i'm not familiar with your theory ( 11 layers in multiverse, etc). i think we will never find model in universe that really in 1 and 2 dimension. even string (or line) and membrane. everything exactly are 3 dimensional. that just the way to understand the 3 dimension. paper for example, we can call it as membrane, however it has a thick ( 0.00xx mm). in my understanding everything has lenght, width and thick (3d). BTW, do you think the theory of relativity is correct? do you think it has been mention in any scripture?

Strings are not three dimensional, they're one dimensional, having length but no width.

Membrane is length and width but no height but the Membrane consists of one dimensional strings that form it.

Particles are three dimensional voids in space.

 

[Pegg]

einstein theory claims that time, distance and mass are relative, it depend on viewers ( system velocity of viewers). time is relative, its look like doesn't makes sense at all. qur'an mention that time is relative, 1 day in heaven equal with 1000 years here. as a muslim i believe that relativity (time) is correct. i don't know as bible or torah mentioned this also?

the bible states:

The Christian Greek scriptures states; 2Peter 3:8 However, let this one fact not be escaping YOUR notice, beloved ones, that one day is with Jehovah as a thousand years and a thousand years as one day.

The hebew scriptures state: Psalms 90:4 For a thousand years are in your eyes but as yesterday when it is past, And as a watch during the night

 

[InformedIgnorance]

With respect sumaidi, however if you interpret things metaphorically you can read the meaning that you desire to read.


I have placed a metaphorical examination of the the nursery rhyme about the cow jumping over the moon in spoiler tag, this is only intended for those who can read such things without taking offence, because it is not intended to be a parody of your beliefs but rather to highlight the susceptibility of metaphorical interpretations:

Spoiler: An exmaple

Hey diddle diddle, <- I have no idea... a primitive form of marketing perhaps?
The Cat and the fiddle, <- could be a metaphor to express that this is a cause for joyous celebration
The Cow jumped over the moon, <- the metaphor could be a prophecy predicting space travel by the descendants of cattle herders
The little Dog laughed to see such sport, <- the metaphor could be could be a prophecy about small minded people people mocking such advancements
And the Dish ran away with the Spoon. <- the metaphor could be could be a prophecy that this would occur in times of economic collapse

Clearly such events DID happen, so my metaphorical interpretation is rather suspect - there is no reason to suspect that the lyrics were ever intended to be meant to convey such a meaning so divergent from the literal expression of concepts therein.

 

[sumaidi]

With respect sumaidi, however if you interpret things metaphorically you can read the meaning that you desire to read.


I have placed a metaphorical examination of the the nursery rhyme about the cow jumping over the moon in spoiler tag, this is only intended for those who can read such things without taking offence, because it is not intended to be a parody of your beliefs but rather to highlight the susceptibility of metaphorical interpretations:

Clearly such events DID happen, so my metaphorical interpretation is rather suspect - there is no reason to suspect that the lyrics were ever intended to be meant to convey such a meaning so divergent from the literal expression of concepts therein.[/spoiler]

thanks my friend, yes your're right english is not my daily speaking, it's difficult to me to interpret metaphor expression in english. as it (metaphor expression) mentioned in my holy book (qur'an/arabic) then i try connect it with the theory (relativity) and bring it here. that's my understanding, i think just a few muslim have the understanding like mine. and it's ( my understanding about the relativity in qur'an) could be wrong.

 

[sumaidi]

the bible states:

The Christian Greek scriptures states; 2Peter 3:8 However, let this one fact not be escaping YOUR notice, beloved ones, that one day is with Jehovah as a thousand years and a thousand years as one day.

The hebew scriptures state: Psalms 90:4 For a thousand years are in your eyes but as yesterday when it is past, And as a watch during the night

thanks, so it just like/same with in qur'an.
all moslem believe that bible and torah were really from god.

 

[sumaidi]

Strings are not three dimensional, they're one dimensional, having length but no width.

Membrane is length and width but no height but the Membrane consists of one dimensional strings that form it.

Particles are three dimensional voids in space.

yes my friend i get that. that string are 1 dimensional, membrane are 2 dimensional and particles are 3 dimensional.
i mean that nothing in the earth that is really 1 and 2 dimensional, everything is 3 dimensional, is it right? then, what is your idea about the relativity theory, do you get something wrong with the theory?

 

[InformedIgnorance]

I have heard similar beliefs about other theories as well, such as about some aspects of embryonic science... however my point was not that it was an individual failing of interpretation but rater that it is a common trend for people to interpret things that they approve of in a way that makes it seem even more important or legitimate (while the reverse also holds true). To be fair, I do not know of the precise reference you speak of, nor what it would mean in its original form as opposed to translations, but it is merely a comment in general on the issue of interpretation, the same words can mean different things to different people and even the same people can find a different meaning in the words were they to read them at a different time in their life. Such is the flexibility of words and the power of our desires.

 

[sumaidi]

I have heard similar beliefs about other theories as well, such as about some aspects of embryonic science... however my point was not that it was an individual failing of interpretation but rater that it is a common trend for people to interpret things that they approve of in a way that makes it seem even more important or legitimate (while the reverse also holds true). To be fair, I do not know of the precise reference you speak of, nor what it would mean in its original form as opposed to translations, but it is merely a comment in general on the issue of interpretation, the same words can mean different things to different people and even the same people can find a different meaning in the words were they to read them at a different time in their life. Such is the flexibility of words and the power of our desires.

informed, sorry could you explain to me what you mean with that ...(sentence in bold / thick letter)

 

[InformedIgnorance]

Well, simply said, I was referring to the confirmation/belief bias, where without actually critically examining the alternative positions or evaluating evidence one approves of and considers legitimate/authoritative those claims that agree with currently held positions, while disapproving and considering illegitimate/speculative with those that disagree.

It also significantly leverages the concepts of dealing with holy texts (and the resulting halo effect) hindsight based metaphoric reinterpretations (dosed with some choice supporting bias to strengthen the case for already held beliefs) done to facilitate the increased understanding of the natural world (achieved by scientific advancement); an exercise in confirmatory rather than exploratory thought (thinking designed to maintain and justify the current perspective rather than thinking designed to potentially enhance the current perspective or even developing an entirely new perspective if warranted).

 

[shawn001]

The multiverse, as used in several interpretations of QM, is an (near-)infinite dimensional space. Eleven layers of 3D space would simply be a 4D space.


This is not any model of physics I'm familiar with, and the last sentence simply doesn't make sense. Particles are synonymous with the shape of spacetime AFAIK.


Energy doesn't exist at this level of abstraction. You should actually be describing what energy emerges from.


A very strange thing where the laws of physics were wildly different. However, there was no singularity, because there was no moment at the beginning of time.


The singularity is the bit that's wrong, and possibly because the situation that it arises in simply does not happen. The physical evidence for black holes is still sketchy, and it's entirely possible that something about them means that the singularity in the middle simply does not arise for some reason.


You were originally referring to relativistic reference frames, which are not ordered. All (steady speed) reference frames are equally valid.

"The physical evidence for black holes is still sketchy"

What do you mean by that? We have a ton of evidence and observations for black holes now. You might not be able to physically observe them, but we know they are there now for a fact. There is a massive one in the center of the milkyway. In almost all galaxies even, if not all. So I am not sure what your saying here perhaps.

 

[shawn001]

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