"Elohim" Before Clear Monotheism

[Coder]

In Genesis 1:1 the word "Elohim" has a sense of plurality.

Judaism is monotheistic, but emerged from an environment with elements of polytheism.

Later, in Isaiah 44:6 the correct understanding of God is clarified and taught:
"...there is no God but me."

From this, one can see clearly, that prior to Isaiah 44:6, some incorrect concepts of God were still present in the environment.

 

[GoodAttention]

In Genesis 1:1 the word "Elohim" has a sense of plurality.

Judaism is monotheistic, but emerged from an environment with elements of polytheism.

Later, in Isaiah 44:6 the correct understanding of God is clarified and taught:
"...there is no God but me."

From this, one can see clearly, that prior to Isaiah 44:6, some incorrect concepts of God were still present in the environment.

The sense of plurality is in the word, which has a plural aspect and a singular aspect.

The plural aspect is "everyones", or "all peoples", or "our" God. It is to say "God of humanity".

This isn't polytheism, this is respectful monotheism. Elohim is to whom "the respect/submission of humanity" goes to.

 

[Coder]

"The word elohim or 'elohiym (ʼĕlôhîym) is a grammatically plural noun for 'gods' or 'deities'..."

The word "elohim" has multiple possible interpretations and can therefore easily be retro-interpreted to fit a desired meaning (as we see from the attempts of trinitarians).

Genesis 1:26
"Then God said: Let us make man in our image, after our likeness."

"One modern theory suggests that the notion of divinity underwent radical changes in the early period of Israelite identity and development of Ancient Hebrew religion...ambiguity of the term elohim is the result of such changes, ... i.e. the re-interpretation of the gods of the earliest recalled period ...and further in terms of monotheism by the emergence of Rabbinical Judaism."

Elohim - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

The thread title doesn't say that "Elohim" in Genesis is not monotheistic at all, only that clarity is lacking. I think that we don't know with certainty how "Elohim" was interpreted 2500 to 2800 years ago and interpretations may have varied. It is not as clearly monotheistic as Isaiah 44:6. If monotheism had already been clear, then why would Isaiah 44:6 be needed?

 

[christos]

In Genesis 1:1 the word "Elohim" has a sense of plurality.

Judaism is monotheistic, but emerged from an environment with elements of polytheism.

Later, in Isaiah 44:6 the correct understanding of God is clarified and taught:
"...there is no God but me."

From this, one can see clearly, that prior to Isaiah 44:6, some incorrect concepts of God were still present in the environment.

It doesn’t have a sense of plurality
IT IS plural for dieties

The reason it is present is because the Jews took the stories of the SUNERIANS and altered it

It’s why I outright say no single religion of today is “absolute” truth, as all religion of today have diverted away from the original texts

If you read the Sumerian texts, especially the Sumerian Adam and Eve, you’ll understand clearly

 

[Ehav4Ever]

In Genesis 1:1 the word "Elohim" has a sense of plurality.

Judaism is monotheistic, but emerged from an environment with elements of polytheism.

Later, in Isaiah 44:6 the correct understanding of God is clarified and taught:
"...there is no God but me."

From this, one can see clearly, that prior to Isaiah 44:6, some incorrect concepts of God were still present in the environment.

Just FYI. I created a thread in the Orthodox Judaism DIR that gives the history of the word (אלהים) elohim in Israeli / Jewish Hebrew.

The meaning of (אלהים) "elohim" according to Jewish and Ancient Sources

This thread will be used to discuss what ancient Israeli / Jewish sources state about the "term" (אלהים) "elohim" including its etymology, meaning, and uses in Jewish texts. Please be aware, this will be using actual source material and not sites like wikpedia and such that are not accurate in...

www.religiousforums.com

Also, there is a thread that discusses the source, historically, for the Torah based Israeli / Jewish concept of there being one Source of creation / reality.

Hashem as the single Source of creation (Ancient Yisraeli / Yehudi Concept)

In this thread I will be addressing the issue of whether or not the ancestors of modern day Torath Mosheh and Orthodox Jews at some point changed from following the fundamentals of the Torah as expressed in the Talmud and by the Rishonim. The Torah fundamental I will be addressing is the nature...

www.religiousforums.com

I hope that helps.

 

[Coder]

IT IS plural for dieties
...stories of the SUMERIANS...

Yes, I believe in powerful wisdom of God in the Jewish Scriptures, but I don't view it all in a literal sense and all must admit the commonalities among various shared portions. The "holy spirit" concept for example, is shared with Zoroastrianism (Spenta Maynu).

 

[Betho_br]

Just FYI. I created a thread in the Orthodox Judaism DIR that gives the history of the word (אלהים) elohim in Israeli / Jewish Hebrew.

The meaning of (אלהים) "elohim" according to Jewish and Ancient Sources

This thread will be used to discuss what ancient Israeli / Jewish sources state about the "term" (אלהים) "elohim" including its etymology, meaning, and uses in Jewish texts. Please be aware, this will be using actual source material and not sites like wikpedia and such that are not accurate in...

www.religiousforums.com

Also, there is a thread that discusses the source, historically, for the Torah based Israeli / Jewish concept of there being one Source of creation / reality.

Hashem as the single Source of creation (Ancient Yisraeli / Yehudi Concept)

In this thread I will be addressing the issue of whether or not the ancestors of modern day Torath Mosheh and Orthodox Jews at some point changed from following the fundamentals of the Torah as expressed in the Talmud and by the Rishonim. The Torah fundamental I will be addressing is the nature...

www.religiousforums.com

I hope that helps.

I didn't know your topic. Everything is very well explained and easy to assimilate. I don't understand the resistance of some to understanding the richness of the word elohim, it must be a passionate and religious feeling.

 

[Eli G]

In Genesis 1:1 the word "Elohim" has a sense of plurality.

That's simply not true, since the verb is singular.

When "elohim" is referred to a normal plural subject, the verb is also plural.

Judaism is monotheistic, but emerged from an environment with elements of polytheism.

That's simply not true, again.

Since the very moment God called Abraham, he was considered a single person.

Gen. 12:1 And Jehovah said to Aʹbram: “Go out from your land and away from your relatives and from the house of your father to the land that I will show you. 2 I will make you a great nation, and I will bless you, and I will make your name great, and you will become a blessing. 3 I will bless those who bless you, and I will curse him who calls down evil on you, and all the families of the ground will certainly be blessed by means of you.”

Later, in Isaiah 44:6 the correct understanding of God is clarified and taught:
"...there is no God but me."

That's simply not true, again.

The very Law of Moses, given to Israel about 8 centuries before Isaiah says:

Deut. 6:4 “Listen, O Israel: Jehovah our God is one Jehovah.

... something that all Israel knew.

From this, one can see clearly, that prior to Isaiah 44:6, some incorrect concepts of God were still present in the environment.

Wrong conclusion out of wrong premises.

 

[jimb]

In Genesis 1:1 the word "Elohim" has a sense of plurality.

Judaism is monotheistic, but emerged from an environment with elements of polytheism.

Later, in Isaiah 44:6 the correct understanding of God is clarified and taught:
"...there is no God but me."

From this, one can see clearly, that prior to Isaiah 44:6, some incorrect concepts of God were still present in the environment.

Or perhaps the earlier concepts of God were correct and the single phrase from Isaiah is wrong. And the New Testament clearly shows that the plurality of God is correct.

Genesis 1:26 says "Let us make man in our image". There you have excellent proof of plurality.

Exodus 30:3 says "You shall have no other gods before me." That reinforces the concept.

John 1:1 says "In the beginning was the Word and the Word was with God, and the Word was fully God". That clearly states the plurality.

 

[Jedster]

@jimb

Actually Genesis 1:26 says
And God said, "Let us make man in our image
וַיֹּ֣אמֶר אֱלֹהִ֔ים נַֽעֲשֶׂ֥ה אָדָ֛ם בְּצַלְמֵ֖נוּ

The first word וַיֹּ֣אמֶר is 3rd person singular(i.e.He said)

 

[jimb]

@jimb

Actually Genesis 1:26 says
And God said, "Let us make man in our image
וַיֹּ֣אמֶר אֱלֹהִ֔ים נַֽעֲשֶׂ֥ה אָדָ֛ם בְּצַלְמֵ֖נוּ

The first word וַיֹּ֣אמֶר is 3rd person singular(i.e.He said)

So, the first word is 3rd person singular. But following that it says "Let us ...". So even though one person is speaking, He is clearly speaking for more than one. Christians believe that He is referring to the Trinity.

 

[Jedster]

So, the first word is 3rd person singular. But following that it says "Let us ...". So even though one person is speaking, He is clearly speaking for more than one. Christians believe that He is referring to the Trinity.

Fare enough.
I recently read a long thread about the trinity in which you participated.
I found your explanations very clear.

 

[Jedster]

The sense of plurality is in the word, which has a plural aspect and a singular aspect.

The plural aspect is "everyones", or "all peoples", or "our" God. It is to say "God of humanity".

This isn't polytheism, this is respectful monotheism. Elohim is to whom "the respect/submission of humanity" goes to.

May find Rashi's commentary of the words Let us make man in our image in Genesis 1:26 ,

Rashi says
Let us make man From here we learn the humility of the Holy One, blessed be He. Since man was created in the likeness of the angels, and they would envy him, He consulted them.

Full commentary at
https://www.chabad.org/library/bible_cdo/aid/8165/showrashi/true (scroll down to verse 26)

I should add, that I can see how a Christian can see this referring to the trinity.

 

[jimb]

Fare enough.
I recently read a long thread about the trinity in which you participated.
I found your explanations very clear.

Thanks. I try to write clearly and carefully about what I believe to be accurate and doctrinally correct. Of course, being human, I am sure that I make errors, which is why I like to participate in forum discussions.

 

[jimb]

Many find Rashi's commentary of the words Let us make man in our image in Genesis 1:26 ,

Rashi says
Let us make man From here we learn the humility of the Holy One, blessed be He. Since man was created in the likeness of the angels, and they would envy him, He consulted them.

Full commentary at
https://www.chabad.org/library/bible_cdo/aid/8165/showrashi/true (scroll down to verse 26)

I should add, that I can see how a Christian can see this referring to the trinity.

Man was made in the likeness of God, not the likeness of angels.

 

[Jedster]

Man was made in the likeness of God, not the likeness of angels.

That's why I said I can see how a Christian can see this referring to the trinity.

 

[jimb]

Man was made in the likeness of God, not the likeness of angels.

You wrote that man was created in the likeness of angels in post #13.

 

[Jedster]

You wrote that man was created in the likeness of angels in post #13.

I was replying to @GoodAttention 's post #2.

What I actually wrote was what follows and please note the first 2 words . I was quoting Rashi and thought @GoodAttention would find it interesting.

Rashi says
Let us make man From here we learn the humility of the Holy One, blessed be He. Since man was created in the likeness of the angels, and they would envy him, He consulted them.

Full commentary at
https://www.chabad.org/library/bible_cdo/aid/8165/showrashi/true (scroll down to verse 26)

I should add, that I can see how a Christian can see this referring to the trinity.

 

[blü 2]

In Genesis 1:1 the word "Elohim" has a sense of plurality.

Judaism is monotheistic, but emerged from an environment with elements of polytheism.

Later, in Isaiah 44:6 the correct understanding of God is clarified and taught:
"...there is no God but me."

From this, one can see clearly, that prior to Isaiah 44:6, some incorrect concepts of God were still present in the environment.

The God of the early part of the Tanakh, up to Isaiah, is a henotheist god, which is to say, the existence of other gods is acknowledged, but superiority is claimed for one's own deity. The most famous example is "no other gods before me" in the Decalogue, rather than "there are no other gods".

Other examples are ─

Exodus 15:11
Who is like thee, O Lord, among the gods?
Who is like thee, majestic in holiness,
terrible in glorious deed, doing wonders?

Numbers 33:4
upon their gods also the Lord executed judgments.

Judges 11:23 So the Lord, the God of Israel, dispossessed the Amorites from before his people Israel; and are you to take possession of them? 24 Will you not possess what Chemosh your god gives you to possess? And all that the Lord our God has dispossessed before us, we will possess.

Psalms 82:1
God has taken his place in the divine council;
in the midst of the gods he holds judgment.

Psalms 86:8
There is none like thee among the gods, O Lord,
nor are there any works like thine.

Psalms 95:3
For the Lord is a great god,
and a great King above all gods.

Psalms 135:5
For I know that the Lord is great;
and that our Lord is above all gods.​