Elohim - God or Extraterrestrial Creators?

[danaustin77]

I haven't found another thread with this topic involving religion and if anyone is interested in debating the issues I will bring up, then feel welcome to do so, and I apologise if this thread has already been covered, I am new to this site so please bear with me. Being a religious forum, I thought there must be quite am eclectic range of people on this site, such as Buddhists, Muslims, Christians and Athiests etc, and it maybe interesting to hear different perspectives.

I would like to turn your attention to the aspect of world religions, basically the world wide perception of what religion is, and what the collective amalgamation of these institutes and where they originated both geogographically and spiritually from, inclusive of the Et hypothesis.

What are people's thoughts or beliefs concerning the so called Ancient Astronaut Theory, such as espoused by the infamously famous Erik Von Danikin, such as in his book Charriots of the Gods and the continuing series of publications he made? I have heard the argument from sceptics and critics that his interpretations are 'fantasies', yet as we are dealing with ancient history, is interpretation and theory an unavoidable aspect of understanding what our past is, including archeology, mythology and religion? Orthodox archeology and the study of religion requires a certain amount of interpretaion, such as the early Christian scholars compiling the Holy Bible, chose not to publish certain accounts of the life of Jesus in other conflicting Gospels such as the Gospel of Thomas. Forgive me, I'm not a religious scholar, I have read the New Testament and parts of the Old Testament, and certainly correct me if I'm wrong, but concerning a one God (singular) the Elohim was also refered to as 'those that came from the sky' (plural) and 'worship no other Gods but me' - does this indicate, with the reality of many religions such as the North Americans with 'The Star People', 'The Vedas' in India or 'The Gods' of Egpyt and Greece etc, that indeed it was infact a world wide series of events rather including many divine entities, rather than one divine experience such as re-told in the Holy Bible?

With this in mind, I would also like to turn your thoughts to the current day, and recent times. If something divine was happening in ancient times, then surely something divine might concievably be happening today, and not the personal enlightenments of individuals, but actual encounters with 'God' such as Ezekiels experience of a firey charriot.

If you haven't viewed this footage, I refer you to the following link which is a press conference of May 2001 in Washington DC at The National Press Club, which an organisation amassed around 500 reliable individuals testifying to other beings in our universe, which gained the label, and I say label intentionally, as 'extraterrestrials', 'aliens' or 'visitors.

Please go to site disclosureproject.org if interested.

I think certainly, as with anything which isn't scientifically acknowledged we should be sceptical, but I hope if anyone reading this who considers this as 'ufo nonsense' is there a danger of being cynically sceptical? On a personal level, I have watched this footage, and it is hard to believe 20 out of 500 ex military, governmental, intelligence, corporate and scientific employees would be hoaxing such cliams, lying, deluded or mistaken - however, if I heard a more rational explanation I would be the first to agree, and then it would help my perspective.

Tieing this altogether, what do you think about the Elohim of ancient times to the current hypothesis of Ets - is there possibly a relationship? Primitve man on seeing a gloriously technologically advanced craft descend before him announcing it was God, would not this man believe it to be the all powerful creator of the universe? Yet today, when the same experiences happen, we term them as alleged 'Et visitations' as we are living in different times, with different words to acount for our experiences.

Please don't think I am wishing to tell you what to think, on the contrary, I value each individual opinion and don't want to convert anyone, but simply as you can see lol, I find this subject quite interesting, and thought I would attempt to start a debate on these issues, their relavence to religion, God, Gods and the wider perspective of the events which are unfolding on this very day, so amazing as to be dismissed by sceptics, so ephemeral as not to be pinned down by science, and so unnerving as to be allegedly withheld by Governments.

 

[Kungfuzed]

I'm not sure sure how possible it is that we are the experiment or creation of a type IV civilzation. I don't know if you're saying that aliens created the universe or just evolved on another world and planted the seeds of life here. The evidence leads me to believe that humans evolved here and were not added to the planet after the fact. DNA seems to imply that all life on this planet is related so it seems like an all or nothing deal as far as life on this planet goes. Since we have no objectively verifyable evidence of alien life, I'd have a hard time believing in such a thing.

 

[danaustin77]

Thank you for your post. In my post I was giving the question if Ets have planted life on Earth, after evolving on another planet. Regarding no 'obvjectively verifyable evidence' concerning alien life, do you think it is not possible that evidence could not be the 3% of 150 million estimated sightings of unexplained ufos since the last century, declassifed documentation which confirms the existence of Ets through governmental channels, and also hundreds of reliable military, government and intelligence employees who will testify before the American Congress as to the reality of Ets and the technology being kept hidden by a fraction of the military industrial sector? Concerning this evidence, I would be interested in your interpretation of the disclosure event, I am open minded myself and I prefer to lean towards the most rational, logical and 'evidence' aspects of the so called phenomena. This event was seen by 1 billion people and widely regarded as a little known, by mass media anyway, 'smoking gun' footage - ie, here is the evidence. I wonder what was going on here and I am certainly open to the sceptical view point. Scientifically, testimony cannot be taken as evidence, and orthodox science it seems will not investigate these claims, but there is also corroberative documentation to prove who these individuals are, their experiences, and other evidence such as radar tapes etc. The issue of why science doesn't investigate events like this, or evidence, has been alleged as a denial of evidence, the benchmark of which was the Condon Report by a scientific panal, who unfortunately chose to file cases which could already be explained, and ignore the cases which were not explained, and provided the interpretation that we are not alone etc.

DNA 'seems to imply' again is theory, and not fact concerning our origination from primates, which of course has the issue that we cannot explain why mankind suddenly advanced biologically over a short period of time, hence the theory of the artifical intervention, and was this even an impossibly short period of time concerning the gradual biological advancements that primates were making. The problems archeologists have found with the evolutionary theory, is the mass of anomalies though, such as human skeletons being discovered which pre-dated primates and their development into more humanoid animals, the DNA link although at first explains the origins of man, or implies an explanation as you said, also has the problem of the missing link, therefore rather than the lack of evidence here to interpret our origin as DNA based, looking at other evidence, such as archeology and mythology is intriguing.

Any thoughts are appreciated,

Thank you.

 

[gnostic]

My knowledge about this part of the OT is hazy, but I thought it was Elijah, who was taken to heaven in chariot of fire, not Ezekiel.

 

[danaustin77]

Hi there gnostic, thanks for your reply! I haven't read the Bible in awhile, it was Ezekiel and not Elijah, but I didn't know he was taken to heaven on a charriot, that is interesting.

 

[Wandered Off]

Ezekiel wrote of his vision of the "wheel in a wheel" that some have interpreted as representing a spacecraft, while others have inferred that the vision resulted from the use of dangerous chemicals.

 

[danaustin77]

That's it, that's the acount I was referring to. Although if he was using dangerous chemicals, were other similar experiences such as Moses on the Mount of Sinia or the star of Bethlehem and other similar experiences across the globe, and not just within Christianity, were they using dangerous drugs? Was infact religion, and world wide religions, created by something which transcended geographical and cultural divides with something that was external? I am referring to the issue of if the causes of religion are internal processes of the brain, then what do you think about the consistent birth of not one in one part of the world, but many in many parts of the world, of experiences of beings from the stars, such as the Elohim.

 

[Super Universe]

The Elohim are the Enlightened Ones, aka Shining Ones or the Central Race. They do work for God.

God creates new solar systems and the Elohim plant life there. Once new life evolves to the point where it makes the first moral decision the Elohim leave and you're on your own. So aliens exist. The universe is full of life.

Some aliens come here because they do not abide by the rule of non-interference. They come here because you have something they want. Humans attract sentient God energy known as a soul. A certain species of alien cannot attract a soul because they were "artificially" formed by Lucifer who was actually trying to make a better and more capable host for the soul but his experiment failed. Still, they are his creation and a life form so Lucifer did not have the heart to end their existence.

The Elohim are very guarded towards this race of beings that Lucifer made. They consider them a great threat, not to them but toward us. They put a great deal of effort into us and don't want to see anyone mess with it, just like any artist.

Really, when it comes to the subject of aliens, people get scared but, honestly, who really cares? I don't get it. So what there are aliens? You still have to go to work and feed your children. It doesn't really change anything.

 

[Kungfuzed]

You would think, out of 150 million sightings that at least a few people would have more to show for it than grainy, out of focus pictures and shakey video. The quality of evidence is so poor the flying object can't even be distinguished from a thrown trash can lid. The evidence for UFOs is very similar in quality to that of the Loch Ness monster and Bigfoot.

 

[Kungfuzed]

This might be for another thread, but I think people who report sightings of UFOs, Bigfoot, the Loch Ness Monster, the Virgin Mary, etc. are good candidates for the Stand Alone Complex.

A Stand Alone Complex can be compared to the emergent copycat behavior that often occurs after incidents such as serial murders or terrorist attacks. An incident catches the public's attention and certain types of people "get on the bandwagon", so to speak. It is particularly apparent when the incident appears to be the result of well-known political or religious beliefs, but it can also occur in response to intense media attention. For example, a mere fire, no matter the number of deaths, is just a garden variety tragedy. However, if the right kind of people begin to believe it was arson, caused by deliberate action, the threat that more arsons will be committed increases drastically.
What separates the Stand Alone Complex from normal copycat behavior is that the originator of the copied action is not even a real person, but merely a rumored figure that commits said action. Even without instruction or leadership a certain type of person will spring into action to imitate the rumored action and move toward the same goal even if only subconsciously. The result is an epidemic of copied behavior-with no originator. One could say that the Stand Alone Complex is mass hysteria-with purpose.

 

[danaustin77]

Really, when it comes to the subject of aliens, people get scared but, honestly, who really cares? I don't get it. So what there are aliens? You still have to go to work and feed your children. It doesn't really change anything.

Thank you for your comments Super Universe, I agree that the explanation of the Et reality is indeed one of interest, and certainly the evident possibility of being created by them is not missed by myself, it is intriguing and enlightening, and also spiritually rewarding.

Apathy is an understandable response to ufos, I asked my family and friends about ufos and no one was interested, my best friend said that he thought there was good reason to think we are not alone, he thought the evidence was good and admitted the Et hypothesis, but thought 'ufos - so what though'.

The relevance behind this issue is basically the technology. It is clear individuals and groups across the globe who are involved with the ufo subject are pushing for an official disclosure - the technological advancement a disclosure would bring about, and spiritual awareness and realisation across the planet, including benefits to science, religion and medicine would change our future dramatically, both on the indiviudal lives on the planet and the mass populous. It is clear that if black budget operations are withholding Et technology, these highly advanced propulsion systems and use of free energy would revolutionise the Third World, equalling up the balance of the rich and the poor - and this too in the modern world, where problems of poverty, crime and failing institutions etc also persist. If there was an offical disclosure is it not possible, and correct me if I'm wrong here I'm only concluding what I see as the situation, that technological freedom for nations in great poverty would lift the Third World out of the condition they are currently in, needless to say reverse global warming and generally educate man as to his origin, his future, and his place within a peaceful galactic community. If all this is not valuable, then fair enough, I guess I chose to think it is of worth, and atleast worth a look.

You would think, out of 150 million sightings that at least a few people would have more to show for it than grainy, out of focus pictures and shakey video. The quality of evidence is so poor the flying object can't even be distinguished from a thrown trash can lid. The evidence for UFOs is very similar in quality to that of the Loch Ness monster and Bigfoot.

On the contrary, I have seen a plethora of ufo footage that is clear, in focus and evidently presents good images of actual craft, which are proven to not be faked or tampered with in any way. Of course, the majority of footage will always be 'grainy, out of focus ... shaky video' as the majority of people with camcorders are ordinary civilians who are amatuers with cameras.

I appreciate your comments, though I find it hard, although certainly interesting why you hold this stance to draw similarities between the Et evidence to 'the Loch Ness monster and Bigfoot'. I would still like to hear your comments on the disclosure event of May 2001 at the National Press Club in Washington DC (disclosureproject.org), certainly if 500 ex military, governmental, intelligence, scientific and corporate individuals who had been in high powered positions within government etc and had top secret clearances, basically I would imagine quite reliable individuals coming forward and maintaining the existence of the Loch Ness Monster or Big Foot or ghosts, then it would atleast be fair to say that we should atleast listen to them? But, no such evidence has occured with the phenomena of ghostly apparitions, a few photographs of the Loch Ness Monster and also a very small amount of footage of alleged Big Foot creatures in comparison to the mass of footage of ufos, and also the fact that 500 individuals of reliable tenancy have come forward with what I assume a sceptic would see as wild and amazing claims, with proof to back it up - these individuals who range from Generals and Admirals to Staff Sergeants and Radar Operatives, not of course some guy on a fishing boat who allegedly snapped a picture of an obscure object in a lake, or a so called figure on a stair case people claim without proof is a ghost etc. Correct me if I'm wrong, I'm just saying what I see rationally and without prejudice.

I do find it interesting the current perceptions of ufos as 'there is no evidence' certainly I personally am open minded as to the sceptical or critical point of view, yet I find it very difficult to accept that reliable proven documentation and reliable witness testimony among evidence of radar tapes, official transcripts etc would be seen as unreliable to prove the existence of Ets. The danger I'm worried about is being in a state of denial of the evidence, that is the risk I am concerned about when I hear remarks such as 'there is no evidence', but surely there is more corroboratory and verifiable evidence and interest and relevance aswell to the ufo issue?

 

[danaustin77]

This might be for another thread, but I think people who report sightings of UFOs, Bigfoot, the Loch Ness Monster, the Virgin Mary, etc. are good candidates for the Stand Alone Complex

Interesting theory on its own and certainly relevant to some aspects of phenomena, it is clear even some cases such as crop circles and so called 'alien abduction' reports are induced by some kind of conditioning, and is clear to be hoaxes even and fake rather than pychological, although it is hard to imagine hundreds of reliable governmental and impartial witnessess with corrobatory proof to justify their claims, that they are experiencing the 'stand alone complex' - these people were in charge of military installations, they also had their finger on nuclear weapons, they were in charge of massive defence budgets etc, and more importantly, they knew the difference between a weather balloon, the planet Venus and swamp gass to say a physical object which travels thousands of miles per hour, stops, does right hand turns, and accelerates at great speeds, even playing tag with scrambled jets. It seems appropriate at first but on closer inspection less so to conclude that ufo footage, which is needless to say a form of evidence, and an impartial form of evidence as it is mechanical and not a human experience, is that crafts have been sighted and also photographed - which is part of the 3% of unexplained sightings by science, which gives the label 'phenomena' and therefore not explained by science as the 'stand alone complex'. Hence the so called unexplained mystery of it all. Personally, like many others, I remain unconvinced as to a pychological comparison with ufos to other phenomena such as sightings of the Virgin Mary or Big Foot, which do not reach into the hundreds of millions of sightings, are comparitively little, and not really comparable in quality or quantity. Also there is the issue of recent developements, the head of the disclosure project has personally briefed the Clinton administration in the nineties, including Bill and Hillary Clinton and the Secretary of Defence Mr Woosley at the time who has said 'I know a lot' about ufos recently, Dr Greer went onto to debrief many important government officials who take the ufo issue very seriously, and evidently, if this was about Big Foot, ghosts or the Loch Ness Monster, Dr Greer would never have been allowed near the White House or other governments. There is also the issue of thousands of declassified documents, which confirm the governments interest in ufos, in contradiction to the medias appraisal of the situation with ridicule. Thousands of such documents do not exist on any other phenomena, or are taken seriously by world Governments, I find it hard to establish a link, apart from the general perseption of phenomena that 'oh its all about ufos, big foot and ghosts' kind of understanding, which evidently does not reflect the actual situation.

Thank you for your comments, I appreciate them.

Thank you.

 

[Kungfuzed]

I'm at work so I'll have to wait until I get home to watch the press conference.

 

[danaustin77]

Hi Kungfuzed,

Sure, take your time, I hope you enjoy, and if you find it too hard believe, which I assume most sceptics and critics do and wish to disprove it from the outset, I hope that you keep an open mind, and are not sceptical to the point of being cynical about the testimonies. Although if you find it too hard to believe, I hope that you do find it entertaining lol!

Thank you for your posts.

 

[Kungfuzed]

I'm sure these people saw something. I'm just not convinced that what they saw was something from another planet. What most of them say is that they see lights in the sky moving at incredible speeds and making right turns.

I wonder if I could make a UFO in the sky at night with a couple of spotlights or lazer pointers.

A few saw an actual object, but none of these people have anything to loose by being wrong or by lying. They're all retired. They all say they'll swear in front of Congress, but who actually has sworn in front of Congress?

Got any links to some good pictures or videos of UFOs? Here's a link to some of the bad grainy pictures I was talking about. UFOs

Here's one picture I've seen on several occasions. Is it a pair of hubcaps glued together or a UFO?

 

[danaustin77]

I'm sure these people saw something. I'm just not convinced that what they saw was something from another planet. What most of them say is that they see lights in the sky moving at incredible speeds and making right turns.

Science, and myself included know of no known 'phenomena' such as meteors or space debris or other terrestrial or standard explanations to travel thousands of miles per hour then do a right hand turn. Is it intelligent? Rather than chosing to pick any explanation under the sun, no matter how implausible, the Et explanation is avoided consistently in orthodox science mainly because of the ridicule factor or the funding issues scientists are faced with, and also reports such as the Condon Report from the last century, which sanitised incorrently information regarding ufos and actually explained every case it dealt with, when they were already explained, and intentionally sidelined unexplained cases which could reasonably be interpreted with the Et hypothesis. The evidence given at this conference here was given in contrast to these standards which science sets itself, and were important points.

I wonder if I could make a UFO in the sky at night with a couple of spotlights or lazer pointers.

I'm sure you could, and I'm sure many other people attempt or are successful in hoaxing ufos, unfortunately there are many technical tests that it needs to pass to actually ascertain it is a ufo, ie unidentifed by science, and not a hoax. You will find that many unexplained sightings which have been recorded are put through the most stringent of tests to actually attain the title 'unexplained' hence phenomena.

A few saw an actual object, but none of these people have anything to loose by being wrong or by lying. They're all retired. They all say they'll swear in front of Congress, but who actually has sworn in front of Congress?

Does 'A few' do this justice, when we are talking about 20 individuals out of 500 (the conference was 2-3 hours long and needed a brief outlay of the experiences accumilated). Personally, and many out of the 1 billion people who saw this footage, find it no suprise that the explanation that is right before their eyes in this case with these testimonies is the actual answer to the question, rather than searching for any other answer under the sun which is in most cases far less likely to explain what is going on here. That these individuals are 'wrong' or actually 'lying' I'll be honest with you Kunguzed, and please accept my apologies if I come across badly, I am sincerely trying to convey my points as nicely as I can, it just stretches the immagination to think these individuals are lying or wrong because 'these people haven't anything to lose' because they are retired. First of all they have their reputations, which by the way are quite impressive, secondly, if they went before the American Congress which they are saying they will in all sincerity, they could be prosecuted with severe rammifications, honestly, it really stretches my immagination, and I imagine, many other people's that what you are suggesting is the case - these 'people' are seen as heroes of generations, reliable, down to earth, honourable and sincere individuals who have their finger on the heart of national defence. Has any of these individuals been before the American Congress since this event? It is a complicated issue. It is why we are here today in this situation, and you and I are having this debate, instead of it being spread across the evening news, the papers and in scientific journals as the most historic event of mankind. It is the problem the disclosure project and many other ufologists find, a wall of silence concerning the issue by Government, and I think you may agree that lights in the sky that can travel thousands of miles per hour and do right hand turns could be seen as national defence issues. Due to reasons I won't go into right now, or go onto explain the conspiracy theory of a cover up, essentially though, it is the same as the mass media, which were at the event (the people applauding in the audience at the event were not pro-Et supporters, but neutral journalists and crew) and some of these reporters later found that their stories were not allowed for publication or televisation, and neither any of the international networks at the event broadcast the event. Lack of public interest or relevance you may claim? Polls estimate a huge interest in the subject, and it is clear sanitisation and misrepresentation of the subject happens from reliable first hand reports of individuals involved with media corporations. But again, that is down to the individual to believe or not.

But at the end of the day, your comments came as no suprise to me, I was expecting them and had no expectation there would be anything different said, because I find often the problem is people chose to disbelieve what is right before their eyes because they have already come to the conclusion 'there is no evidence'. My worry though is that certain indiviuals who see such evidence, and it is compelling, will be cynical to what is going on, and cannot be reasoned out of their perspective. Personally, if I heard a convincing explanation for this event, I would jump on board and say 'hey yeah, this is it isn't it', but I, like many others who have seen this footage, find it hard to come by.

So, thank you for your comments, I appreciate them, and I politely and sincerely decline to agree. I have access to many pictures of ufos but the issue is whatever I bring up will always be dismissed or explained with something else other than the obvious and most likely and most rational, the Et answer, which I personally find bemusing, although interesting to hear and I am always open minded as to other explanations, yet pointless to prevent compelling evidence and proof but as it isn't a dead alien on a table, or a piece of a flying saucer in a labratory, it is dismissed.

Thank you for your posts and comments though, take care, and I hope you had a good day at work, and thank you for watching the footage,

Thank you.

 

[logician]

A real problem for believing that UFO's are visits from aliens is that we still have not found evidence of any alien intelligence in the ongoing scan of the sky for intelligent signals. I think there is reason to believe that intelligent life capable of interstellar travel may be quite rare, if not very rare in our galaxy, and maybe the universe. It has been theorized that an intelligent civilization capable of colonizing the galaxy could do so in 50 million years or so, yet we see no signs that any thing of this sort has ever happened throughout the billions of years our universe has been in existence.

Of course, there may be a number of intelligent civilizations out there, but communication is either difficult or unwanted, we don't know. Until we find sure evidence of that first alien civilization, though, we cannot assume that intelligent life elsewhere is common.

 

[gnostic]

Hi there gnostic, thanks for your reply! I haven't read the Bible in awhile, it was Ezekiel and not Elijah, but I didn't know he was taken to heaven on a charriot, that is interesting.

Yeah. I have found it. It is in book 2 of King 2:1-18. Elijah ascended, and the horses and chariot of fire took him away.

Ezekiel may have a vision of such chariot, then you are right in that regard, but Elijah had actually experienced it. And Elisha, Elijah's successor, saw this happened.

Was Elijah abducted by aliens?

Anyway, can you provide me a quote the verse or reference in the bible where Ezekiel mention this wheel and chariot? I have not read Ezekiel in a long time, so I am too lazy to find it. So any help would be greatly appreciated it.

 

[danaustin77]

A real problem for believing that UFO's are visits from aliens is that we still have not found evidence of any alien intelligence in the ongoing scan of the sky for intelligent signals. I think there is reason to believe that intelligent life capable of interstellar travel may be quite rare, if not very rare in our galaxy, and maybe the universe. It has been theorized that an intelligent civilization capable of colonizing the galaxy could do so in 50 million years or so, yet we see no signs that any thing of this sort has ever happened throughout the billions of years our universe has been in existence.

SETI have actually had signals which are evidently intelligent, and it wasn't a welcome event, it is complicated to explain why it wasn't on the news, and it is hard to explain to people that they need to research into documentation to find the answers due to lack of belief or apathy. The issue is that if you want to understand what is going on, then it is clear since Nicolas Tesla who created a form of technology to run his farm on free energy in 1901 presented his findings to an official committee and was simply told 'this is great, but I can't put a meter on this' and his scientific findings were ignored, with similar breakthroughs being either ignored or dismissed or simply bought out by dubious companies throughout the century. This leads to the current situation we are faced with concerning ufos, the issue is the technology behind the Et reality, and the necessety by certain powerful groups to withhold this information, groups with economically geo graphical ties to organisations such as SETI, NASA, science, and the media.

These ties, which I admit are allgeged, although they can be proven with declassified documentation which is rarely talked about, known about or even seen due to the unwillingness of certain Governments to release this information, this isn't folklore, urban legend or silly season stuff, the issue is advanced technology would displace very powerful groups, trillions would be lost due to the replacement of fossil fuels with free energy, therefore all I can advise, even though I know you will not believe any of this as you have already made up your mind, and I understand that, and am honestly just wishing to convey my point of view with the utmost respect to you, my advise is not to believe absolutely everything you read or hear just because it is on the evening news or in a reputable newspaper or journal, better to research the best available sources and rationally understand the evidence and proof, and in your way sure, certainly don't take any of what I say as true, and then you will begin to see why for instance certain elements of SETI need to keep the current embargo on what is going on secret. It sounds crazy until you look into it. The 'real' problem is that people don't really know what is happening, the real issues at hand, the history of ufos goes back to the 1940's and a cover up is evident, again, if you look at documentation and hear witness testimony with an open mind, which is difficult I understand for some.

On the contrary, life in the universe is common, and our galaxy is evidently plentiful of life, unfortunately, since the 1940's the military industrial sector within the US Government has lead the Governments of the world in subverting what is really going on, preventing evidence of this coming out. To be honest, after everything I have said, I have little more to add, if the evidence isn't already compelling, then it is hard you see to rationalise with someone who has made up their mind - or indeed is this social conditioning since birth that ufos are just ufos and who knows?

Thank you very much for your comments though, it is appreciated.

Anyway, can you provide me a quote the verse or reference in the bible where Ezekiel mention this wheel and chariot? I have not read Ezekiel in a long time, so I am too lazy to find it. So any help would be greatly appreciated it.

Hi there gnostic, sure, no problem, I will find Ezekiels experience and put it up on here for you - I will also read Elijah's experience, so thank you very much for pointing that out to me, I wasn't aware of his experience until you mentioned it in the post.

If you want my opinion on the so called 'alien abduction' folk lore I will be happy to give my perspective, though I would only say don't believe everything you read, as I say to anyone, percieve instead of believe, valid reason and rationale with evidence, personally I don't believe people are abducted by Ets, rather it is a real concern with the ufo sub culture which has arisen, basically disinformation and counter intelligence schemes 'in the black' projects which simulate such abductions, they look like aliens, but they ain't aliens as it were. Anyway, that's the impression I have, though I am always open to hearing abduction stories, just not interpret them on face value.

Thanks for the pointer about chapter and verse in the Bible - I will read this, and get Ezekiels experience up for you soon.

 

[logician]

"On the contrary, life in the universe is common, and our galaxy is evidently plentiful of life"

I'm sure "non-intelligent" life is quite common, but the jury is still out on intelligent life such as ourselves, regardless of conspiracy theories.