There are many points that is great to be able to agree to disagree.
With life there are times we can not allow that stance.
Regards Tony
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Emergence of Bahai'ism
- Thread starter duvduv
- Start date
There are many points that is great to be able to agree to disagree.
With life there are times we can not allow that stance.
Regards Tony
Like what?
Using 'different' doesn't cause anywhere near the problems that 'I'm right and you're wrong' does.
Compare these two statements.
"Well, that certainly is a different view than what we hold."
versus ... "Your view is clearly wrong, and my view is clearly right."
One is conciliatory, and the other is aggressive, ready for a fight.
What Bahai's and others are trying to do is to eliminate all differences by converting everyone into their way of thinking, thus having 'unity'. If it were possible, it would indeed work. Unfortunately it's totally unrealistic, and impossible. So better to be realistic, stop proselytising, and love your fellow man for who he is, not some irrational idea of how you what you can turn him into.
Sounds like some kind of semi-syncretic collection or adoption of major figures wherever any group claims a person was famous. So Rama was a manifestation (Hinduism=Avatar), Krishna was a manifestation, Zoroaster was a manifestation, so was Jesus and so was John the Baptist and so was Mani. And then must have been Abraham, Noah, Adam, Moses, David, Solomon, and Ali and Muhammad, and Jethro (don't forget the Druze), and Krishnamurti, and Ramakrishna, and Yogananda, and Joseph Smith, and Ellen White, and Augustine, and Jerome, and Thomas Aquinas. WHO DECIDES in Bahaism who gets included on the list and who gets excluded? Was Martin Luther such a manifestation? Saint Francis of Assisi?!
My learning in life and on RF with talking to Hindus is how universalist many are in their outlook and how staunchly anti-Abrahamic others are. So in a sense it doesn't really matter about the branch of Hinduism or any religion for that matter. It is about the openness and willingness to engage, the desire to find common ground, and general good will.
Having some knowledge to begin with is certainly helpful, but far more important is the attitude we approach interfaith discussion at the outset.
As I think those issues are apparent and you asked that question. I will not single out any one of them.
I will say anarchy does not work, thus we could not agree to disagree if ones view was for anarchy. That is why all progressive civilizations, also have just and fair laws for all peoples.
Regards Tony
People evolve too. Some folks learn they can't just evangelize on this forum, and mellow out, start listening more, and actually change for the better. That's an incredible thing for humanity.
All Faith is organic and will only emerge as a fruiting tree when the followers learn to understand and practice what is being taught, what we are asked to be.
Personally I see the Baha'i Faith was given as a path to change self and part of that is to love every Human and all creation, treat it all with the respect that is due.
Regards Tony
Too bad it's not followed by many. How is attempting conversion showing respect for others. Respect means leaving them alone, accepting them as they are. Words and actions are unfortunately, all too often contradictory.
In other words you can't give an example.
How is participating in a debate with a point of view anything but that?
Could I just as well say you are attempting a conversion? You have posted lots of threads directed at the principals of the Baha'i Revelation to get a response and press your thoughts on those issues.
Consider, no one has to participate in any conversation, it is their choice to do so and by doing so will accept many thoughts will be put forward. If questions are asked, it is only fair that if a response is considered, an appropriate and honest answer is given. That is what I try to do and tried to do in this reply.
Regards Tony
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Its not an easy thing to either learn about a new religion or engage in interfaith dialogue.
One of the most common misunderstandings about the Baha'i Faith is that its a syncretic religion. In other words we take parts from each religion and claim them as our own. While its true that the Baha'i Faith acknowledge certain Great educators that have come before, this is also true for several other major religions including Islam (Acknowledges Christ and Moses) and Christianity (acknowledges Moses and the Hebrew prophets). However like Moses, Jesus, and Muhammad we believe that Baha'u'llah brought a new Revelation from God. So we don't see ourselves as a simple amalgamation of what has gone before but followers of an entirely New Manifestation of God who has brought a New Revelation from God. We also believe that Buddha and Krishna brought a revelation from God too.
So who decides who is a Manifestation of God and who isn't? Baha'u'llah of course. There are obviously many wonderful souls who have contributed to humanity, but they are not founders of a new religion from God.
I thought it not appropriate to give any specific examples, as it may offend another that posts here.
Thus I gave a generic answer which would cover many of these specific events.
Peace be with you and regards Tony.
Most non-Baha'i consider the Baha'i a faith still, not a religion. I can see what Baha'is want to view themselves as a religion though. It adds some authenticity. But that does vary somewhat.
Not many people here get offended, and I would have no idea who you're referring to, but that's nice of you.
I don't understand what you're trying to say. Are you actually saying that anyone who participates in any conversation, is trying to convert the other person to their belief system? That's what it sounds like. Seems like a massive personal projection to me.
How did you become aware this is how most people that are not Baha'i think? Please provide the source.
If there is no source, is this an attempt to impart your thoughts on to others?
In this post, I am only trying to attempt to point out that these are your views as I am able to quote many sources that show many people see the Baha'i Faith as an independant World Religion.
Regards Tony
The majority of religious texts I have seen will consider the Baha'i Faith as an independent religion. There are a few that don't mention us at all of course, and that is probably on account of our relatively small size. Depending on how we define religion, the Baha'i Faith would meet the definition in most cases.
How we view ourselves and others are often quite different and that's fine. It can have legal consequences though, for example interfaith marriage. In the early twentieth century Egypt would not allow Muslims to marry Baha'is because Baha'is were not Muslims.
Major religious groups - Wikipedia
It's called a faith here. I can provide more sources if you wish. I understand why you would consider this important.
CG Didymus
Veteran Member
It all goes back to your "infallibility" thread... no matter how the followers of a religion word it, they probably think their religion is the best and has The Truth. Baha'is soften that by saying at one time all the religions had The Truth, but it has to be updated in the ever progressing revelation of what God's Truth is. But talk about things like sociology or psychology, people's behavior changes for the good in pretty much any spiritual path... if the people believe in it. Like with Christianity, it is not "dead" or "dying". It has not lost its relevance... to those that buy into it. The more literal they take the Bible, the better things make sense to them. Why are there sea shells on top of a mountain? For them it is easy. The Flood. Why is the world in such a mess? Easy, the devil is trying to deceive everybody and lead them away from the truth... And on and on.
But, definitely, that is not God's truth for a Baha'i. They can say they respect those beliefs, but they still think they are false and derived from misinterpretations and maybe even changes in the Bible. So how can false beliefs be respected? If they are false and Baha'is know it, and they have the "real" truth, then they have to tell people... and they do... but without judging and without proselytizing and, I guess, if they say so, with respect.