Emptiness vs Kenosis

[Fool]

Are the ideas of emptiness in eastern philosophies similar to the idea of kenosis in Christianity?

 

[Twilight Hue]

Are the ideas of emptiness in eastern philosophies similar to the idea of kenosis in Christianity?

No. Emptiness refers to the negation of the illusion that there a permanent abiding seperate self as with all phenomena. It has nothing to do with conditioning to become more receptive by as with kenosis.

 

[Fool]

No. Emptiness refers to the negation of the illusion that there a permanent abiding seperate self as with all phenomena. It has nothing to do with conditioning to become more receptive by as with kenosis.

so colossians 3:11 doesn't pertain?

nor

exodus 3:14

nor the idea being conveyed in

john 17?

 

[arcanum]

Kenosis is emptying oneself of a sense of self, a self emptying of all mental faculties. I don't see why Nowhere man doesn't see a correlation?

 

[Papoon]

Kenosis is emptying oneself of a sense of self, a self emptying of all mental faculties. I don't see why Nowhere man doesn't see a correlation?

Emptiness in the bhuddist sense does not mean mental vacuity, or mere absence of content as in an empty glass.

Nowhere Man expressed it well. In my conversations with Tibetan lamas they made it clear that emptiness does not mean absence of content, it means absence of enduring essence, and a better choice of word is relativity.

Any object can be considered empty, in the sense that it is a temporary arrangement of energy in flux. In other words, there is no permanent or inherently existing entity.

The state of mind which is free of thought has various names in different meditative traditions, but is not what is referred to as emptiness in the Buddhist tradition.

 

[Rick O'Shez]

Kenosis is emptying oneself of a sense of self, a self emptying of all mental faculties. I don't see why Nowhere man doesn't see a correlation?

It looks to me more like self-surrender.

 

[crossfire]

Kenosis is emptying oneself of a sense of self, a self emptying of all mental faculties. I don't see why Nowhere man doesn't see a correlation?

Sunyata isn't emptying mental faculties--it is seeing how things truly are--undistorted--with nothing added or taken away.

 

[crossfire]

so colossians 3:11 doesn't pertain?

nor

exodus 3:14

nor the idea being conveyed in

john 17?

Those are not describing Sunyata. (Quite the opposite, in fact.)

 

[Fool]

Those are not describing Sunyata. (Quite the opposite, in fact.)

so, emptying one's mind of self vs mindfulness of all, or silence is different in one culture's language vs another? so to listen doesn't require one to stop vindicating self even if it's self's tribal, or cultural term.


interesting that silence isn't silent except in a cultural context.

 

[atanu]

Kenosis is emptying oneself of a sense of self, a self emptying of all mental faculties. I don't see why Nowhere man doesn't see a correlation?

To preserve the sense of separate self identity, I guess.

 

[atanu]

Are the ideas of emptiness in eastern philosophies similar to the idea of kenosis in Christianity?

I will agree, more or less. The truth is not many but expressions are many. However, IMO, the 'sunyata' can be said to be the progenitor of "I am that I am". Form is the void, and the void is form. If that is not true then there would not be the teaching regarding the void.

 

[Papoon]

so, emptying one's mind of self vs mindfulness of all, or silence is different in one culture's language vs another? so to listen doesn't require one to stop vindicating self even if it's self's tribal, or cultural term.


interesting that silence isn't silent except in a cultural context.

Perhaps you missed my point. There are terms for meditative absorption which includes 'silence' in the sense you mean. It is just that the word emptiness is a term in the Buddhist tradition which does not mean that.

What you are describing is a form of dhyana. Another term which may cover what you mean is pratyahara - withdrawal from the senses.

So it is not that what you are describing is rejected or unknown in other traditions. It is that emptiness is a term, in Buddhism, which has a specific meaning different from kenosis.

 

[crossfire]

so, emptying one's mind of self vs mindfulness of all, or silence is different in one culture's language vs another? so to listen doesn't require one to stop vindicating self even if it's self's tribal, or cultural term.


interesting that silence isn't silent except in a cultural context.

Here is a sutta that comes closest to what you are describing:
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/sn/sn35/sn35.085.than.html
Now you can highlight the part that says:

"The intellect is empty of a self or of anything pertaining to a self. Ideas... Intellect-consciousness... Intellect-contact is empty of a self or of anything pertaining to a self. Thus it is said that the world is empty."​

But that would not fully describe to concept of Emptiness in Buddhism.

 

[atanu]

Perhaps you missed my point. There are terms for meditative absorption which includes 'silence' in the sense you mean. It is just that the word emptiness is a term in the Buddhist tradition which does not mean that.

What you are describing is a form of dhyana. Another term which may cover what you mean is pratyahara - withdrawal from the senses.

So it is not that what you are describing is rejected or unknown in other traditions. It is that emptiness is a term, in Buddhism, which has a specific meaning different from kenosis.

As far as I know, Pratyahara, Dharana, Dhyana, and Samadhi are really not separable. Successful pratyahara leads to the other stages.

So, let me ask humbly whether you have experienced the dhyana samadhi and also experienced the skandhas to be devoid of essence (as in Heart Sutra) and have found these two experiences to convey different realities?