End of Times Signs and The Antichrist?

[dgirl1986]

Someone on another forum has advised me that the antichrist has already been and gone, and he knows who it was.

Most of his information seems to come from what has been said by his church leader, who is of the approach that screaming truth at people is the best way to approach things.

I asked this guy which comes first, the AntiChrist or the end of times signs? No answer as yet.

I have been googling this topic and get varying opinons by different people. I am not a scriptural expert, I remember bits and pieces and also from what I watched in the left behind movie (lol)

So I was wondering, do you think the antichrist has already been? If not, do you believe there are signs that have to pass before he appears? Do you believe he is to come in your lifetime?

if you think he has already been, what has led you to this conclusion? I welcome scriptural references for points of views to allow me a better understanding.

 

[Shiranui117]

There are many antichrists, but there'll only be one big Antichrist.

If the Antichrist already HAS come, it was likely one of the Roman emperors that heavily persecuted the Christians, like Nero or Diocletian, given the historical context of Revelation.

Also, I'd like to add that the Rapture is not a Biblical doctrine, and the idea did not exist until maybe the 1800's or 1900's.

Overall though, I never worry too much about exactly what the end will be like--instead, I focus on the main message of Revelation: When times get tough, stay faithful, persevere, and you will be rewarded for your suffering and holding to your faith.

 

[heksesang]

Most likely the Anti-Christ was one of the Roman emperors. The number of the beast (both the 666 and the 616 variant) fits Nero. The Roman empire had a pretty vast control of the world. And the gospels say that he would come before the current generation had passed.
The Book of Revelation was written in the times of the reign of Nero, making it very plausible that the number targeted him. And I generally do not believe in coincidences.

 

[dgirl1986]

Most likely the Anti-Christ was one of the Roman emperors. The number of the beast (both the 666 and the 616 variant) fits Nero. The Roman empire had a pretty vast control of the world. And the gospels say that he would come before the current generation had passed.
The Book of Revelation was written in the times of the reign of Nero, making it very plausible that the number targeted him. And I generally do not believe in coincidences.

The bible talks about specific end of times signs though doesnt it? Like there is meant to be world peace, the antichrist being a great deciever to all the people, all under one religion etc.

I saw on some random website that its predicted to all go down in the 3000s

 

[kjw47]

The bible talks about specific end of times signs though doesnt it? Like there is meant to be world peace, the antichrist being a great deciever to all the people, all under one religion etc.

I saw on some random website that its predicted to all go down in the 3000s

The number of a man--- 666--- number is the key word, not being called a man--- In the numbers of men 7 = complete-- 6 falls short-thus incomplete--3 things ruling mankinds lives, each get a 6, because in comparison to what Gods kingdom will do for mankind all 3 are incomplete--all 3 promise a better way of life for mankind but the opposite occurs. All 3 control vast amounts of $$$$---govts-6--- the commercial system-6--- false religions-6--- All will lose those positions by the will of Gods kingdom--they do not want that-thus antichrist.

 

[heksesang]

The number of a man--- 666--- number is the key word, not being called a man--- In the numbers of men 7 = complete-- 6 falls short-thus incomplete--3 things ruling mankinds lives, each get a 6, because in comparison to what Gods kingdom will do for mankind all 3 are incomplete--all 3 promise a better way of life for mankind but the opposite occurs. All 3 control vast amounts of $$$$---govts-6--- the commercial system-6--- false religions-6--- All will lose those positions by the will of Gods kingdom--they do not want that-thus antichrist.

The number isn't six-six-six, it's six-hundred and sixty-six. And "the number of a man" means according to gematria, in which Nero Caesar is equal to either 666 or 616 (i.e. both variations) depending on whether you spell it with a final n or not (i.e. Nero Kesar vs Neron Kesar).

 

[cataway]

well actually kjw47 is more correct


18 Here is where wisdom comes in: Let the one that has intelligence calculate the number of the wild beast, for it is a man’s number; and its number is six hundred and sixty-six.

 

[cataway]

also if you consider were gematria comes from [the mind of man] then gematria would also have the number 6 applied to it.

as for Nero Caesar ...........he has been dead for a very long time.
for it is a man’s number; and its number is six hundred and sixty-six.
is shortly yet in the future.

 

[JayJayDee]

Someone on another forum has advised me that the antichrist has already been and gone, and he knows who it was.

Most of his information seems to come from what has been said by his church leader, who is of the approach that screaming truth at people is the best way to approach things.

I asked this guy which comes first, the AntiChrist or the end of times signs? No answer as yet.

I have been googling this topic and get varying opinons by different people. I am not a scriptural expert, I remember bits and pieces and also from what I watched in the left behind movie (lol)

So I was wondering, do you think the antichrist has already been? If not, do you believe there are signs that have to pass before he appears? Do you believe he is to come in your lifetime?

if you think he has already been, what has led you to this conclusion? I welcome scriptural references for points of views to allow me a better understanding.

OK.....Antichrist means “against (or instead of) Christ.”

“Young children, it is the last hour, and, just as you have heard that antichrist [Gr., an·ti′khri·stos] is coming, even now there have come to be many antichrists; from which fact we gain the knowledge that it is the last hour.” (1 John 2:18)

John shows that there are many individual 'antichrists', but they may all together form a composite entity designated “the antichrist.” (2 John 7) So he didn't restrict the appearance, existence, and activity of the antichrist to some future time, he showed that the antichrist (an as entity) was present back in his day and would continue on till the judgment time. (1John 4:3)

Paul wrote: "However, brothers, respecting the presence of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being gathered together to him....Let no one seduce you in any manner, because it will not come unless the apostasy comes first and the man of lawlessness gets revealed, the son of destruction" (2 Thess 2:1, 3)

He goes on in verse 7 to say : "True, the mystery of this lawlessness is already at work; but only till he who is right now acting as a restraint gets to be out of the way."

So apostasy was to be expected before the Lord's return. The antichrist is a product of that apostasy. (falling away) It was "at work" while the apostles were still alive.

John’s statements show that the term 'antichrist' has a broad application, embracing all those who either deny that “Jesus is the Christ,” or who deny that Jesus is the Son of God who came “in the flesh.” or both. (1John 2:22; 4:2, 3; 2 John 7)

The antichrist would be in denial about the role of Jesus as the Christ, as the Son of God, and would also deny of any or all of the Scriptural teachings concerning him: his origin, his place in God’s arrangement, and his fulfillment of the prophecies in the Hebrew Scriptures identifying him as the promised Messiah. This would include his ministry and teachings and his prophecies, as well as any opposition to or efforts to replace him in his position as God’s appointed High Priest and King.

2 John 7 shows that these ones might act as deceivers, so the “antichrist” would include those who are “false Christs” and “false prophets,” as well as those who 'perform powerful works in Jesus’ name' and yet are classed by him as “workers of lawlessness.” (Matthew 24:24; 7:15, 22, 23)

John also shows that the antichrist comes from inside of the original 'church'.
"They went out from us, but they were not of our sort; for if they had been of our sort, they would have remained with us. But [they went out] that it might be shown up that not all are of our sort." (1 John 2:19)

The antichrist includes “the man of lawlessness” or “son of destruction” described by Paul, as well as the “false teachers” Peter denounces for forming destructive sects and who “disown even the owner that bought them.” (2 Thess 2:3-5; 2 Pet 2:1)

Kingdoms, nations, and organizations are all shown to be part of the antichrist in the symbolic description at Revelation 17:8-15; 19:19-21. (See also Psalm 2:1, 2)

So I see the antichrist as any form of a religious body who teach things contrary to what Christ taught, denies that he was the son of God, and who adopt unscriptural doctrines that mask the true role of the Christ in God's arrangement.
Some will even try to occupy his 'throne' on earth! :sad:

One thing I know for sure...he is not one man who is still to come. He has been around a long time and he is headed for destruction.

 

[savagewind]

Welcome JayJayDee. That is good work and the most reasonable post I have ever read on any forum.

 

[Orias]

Does anyone think that maybe an "Anti Christ" is a group of people or an association of people instead of a single person?

 

[Pegg]

Someone on another forum has advised me that the antichrist has already been and gone, and he knows who it was.

Most of his information seems to come from what has been said by his church leader, who is of the approach that screaming truth at people is the best way to approach things.

I asked this guy which comes first, the AntiChrist or the end of times signs? No answer as yet.

I have been googling this topic and get varying opinons by different people. I am not a scriptural expert, I remember bits and pieces and also from what I watched in the left behind movie (lol)

So I was wondering, do you think the antichrist has already been? If not, do you believe there are signs that have to pass before he appears? Do you believe he is to come in your lifetime?

if you think he has already been, what has led you to this conclusion? I welcome scriptural references for points of views to allow me a better understanding.

there is a scriptural answer to this question....'who is the antichrist'?

The term “antichrist(s)” is found in the writings of the apostle John.
He identifed the antichrist of his day: “Many deceivers have gone forth into the world, persons not confessing Jesus Christ as coming in the flesh. This is the deceiver and the antichrist.” 2 John 7; 1

He also showed how we can identify the antichrist: “Who is the liar if it is not the one that denies that Jesus is the Christ? This is the antichrist, the one that denies the Father and the Son.

And according to John, there were already antichrists at work in the 1st century because it is not an individual but a collective group of people with a particular mindset about Jesus...they are people who do not teach the truth about Jesus and God.
Young children, it is the last hour, and, just as YOU have heard that antichrist is coming, even now there have come to be many antichrists; from which fact we gain the knowledge that it is the last hour. 19 They went out from us, but they were not of our sort; for if they had been of our sort, they would have remained with us. But [they went out] that it might be shown up that not all are of our sort. 1John 2:18-19 Notice how John says that they 'went out from us'....he's speaking about christians who turned away from the teachings of the apostles. They begin to teach falsehoods regarding Christ and God...these sorts are 'antichrists' because they have rejected the truth.


The apostle Paul spoke about these sorts of christians as 'lawless' ones. He gave a warning about them: “3 Let no one seduce YOU in any manner, because it will not come unless the apostasy comes first and the man of lawlessness gets revealed, the son of destruction. 4 He is set in opposition and lifts himself up over everyone who is called “god” or an object of reverence, so that he sits down in the temple of The God, publicly showing himself to be a god. 5 Do YOU not remember that, while I was yet with YOU, I used to tell YOU these things?...7 True, the mystery of this lawlessness is already at work;...9 But the lawless one’s presence is according to the operation of Satan with every powerful work and lying signs and portents 10 and with every unrighteous deception for those who are perishing, as a retribution because they did not accept the love of the truth that they might be saved." 2 Thess. 2:3, 7, 9

So you see, according to the scriptures, the antichrists are within the ranks of christianity itself. They are those who are claiming to be christians while at the same time teaching and doing things according to the 'operation of Satan'.

 

[JayJayDee]

I apologize in advance for the length of this.....

The bible talks about specific end of times signs though doesnt it? Like there is meant to be world peace, the antichrist being a great deciever to all the people, all under one religion etc.

I saw on some random website that its predicted to all go down in the 3000s

Hi there fellow Aussie, this is an interesting subject because many people are expecting just the physical manifestation of Christ coming to judge the world. They are expecting that "every eye will see him".....

But it is interesting that Jesus gave a sign to alert his disciples, not to his 'coming' but to his "presence" (parousia)

In Matt 24:3, there is a question that his disciples asked him....
"While he was sitting upon the Mount of Olives, the disciples approached him privately, saying: “Tell us, When will these things be, and what will be the sign of your presence and of the conclusion of the system of things?”

Or as it is rendered in the NRSV, “Tell us, when will this be, and what will be the sign of your coming and of the end of the age?”

There is a marked difference between being present and coming. So which is the correct one?

The Greek word "parousia" is also used by the apostle Paul at Phill 2:12, "Consequently, my beloved ones, in the way that you have always obeyed, not during my presence only, but now much more readily during my absence"; Paul's "presence" (parousia) is contrasted with his absence. So the correct translation is obviously "presence"...why is that significant? Because Jesus gave a sign that would indicate that he would be "present"....not that he was on his way. Those who did not discern this difference would be at a disadvantage.

In a vision, the prophet Daniel was given a glimpse of something that was to occur in heaven in connection with "the time of the end". Daniel's book was a record of all the events that were to occur at this time. He did not understand any of what he wrote but was told to seal up the book because an abundance of knowledge would be made available at "the time of the end" that the wicked would not discern. It was also foretold that a "cleansing, refining and whitening" would take place among God's worshippers at this time. (Dan 12:4, 9, 10)

This is what Daniel saw....
“I kept on beholding in the visions of the night, and, see there! with the clouds of the heavens someone like a son of man happened to be coming; and to the Ancient of Days he gained access, and they brought him up close even before that One. And to him there were given rulership and dignity and kingdom, that the peoples, national groups and languages should all serve even him. His rulership is an indefinitely lasting rulership that will not pass away, and his kingdom one that will not be brought to ruin." (Dan 7:13, 14)

This was the enthronement of Jesus Christ in heaven...unseen to human eyes. He was not enthroned upon his return to heaven in 33C.E. but had to wait for God's appointed time....then he would 'subdue in the midst of his enemies'. (Psalm 110:1, 2)

In Revelation 12, there is a war depicted whereby satan and his hordes are kicked out of heaven by Michael and his angels. A declaration follows....“Now have come to pass the salvation and the power and the kingdom of our God and the authority of his Christ, because the accuser of our brothers has been hurled down, who accuses them day and night before our God!"

So the enthronement of Jesus Christ as King of God's kingdom, (seen by Daniel) is connected with the ousting of satan from heaven and subsequent woe for the earth.

"On this account be glad, you heavens and you who reside in them! Woe for the earth and for the sea, because the Devil has come down to you, having great anger, knowing he has a short period of time."

So the rulership of Christ is connected with woe for the earth, not peace,

Let me bring all these things together.

When Jesus' disciples asked him about 'the sign of his presence' and the "end of the age", Jesus gave a series of events that would all occur together in one period of time, indicating that his presence as King of God's kingdom had begun. He spoke about wars and reports of wars, but a different kind of warfare would mark this period. This would be "nation against nation and kingdom against kingdom". In 1914, the world was plunged into a war the likes of which had never occurred in human history before...it was literally the "First World War". Other parts of the sign included 'pestilence, food shortages and earthquakes in one place after another.'...'an increase in lawlessness'. All of which happened just as Jesus said it would.

It is my belief that Christ was enthroned in the heavens that year and that all the features of the sign have been in fulfillment ever since. These are the "last days" of this present system of things. (2 Tim 3:1-5) No doubt about it.

Now one of the important features that Jesus spoke about was in verse 14..."And this good news of the kingdom will be preached in all the inhabited earth for a witness to all the nations; and then the end will come."

You will notice in this verse that an international "witness" was to be given before "the end" would come. It was to be the basis of God's judgment on mankind at this time. This witness is the only one that people will get before the end of the age is brought upon this earth.

A "great tribulation" was also foretold before the coming of Jesus to judge the world. (Matt 24:13) The tribulation will be the result of man trying to implement an empty peace plan. (1 Thess 5:2, 3)

Those who did not discern Christ's presence, will not be ready for his 'coming'.

“Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light, and the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. And then the sign of the Son of man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will beat themselves in lamentation, and they will see the Son of man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. And he will send forth his angels with a great trumpet sound, and they will gather his chosen ones together from the four winds, from one extremity of the heavens to their other extremity." (Matt 24:29-31)

By the time people see Jesus coming on the clouds of heaven, it will be a done deal. Destinies are cast, no time to change your ways. Even with the world wide preaching of the good news, people will not listen (Matt 24:37-39)

“Now learn from the fig tree as an illustration this point: Just as soon as its young branch grows tender and it puts forth leaves, you know that summer is near. Likewise also you, when you see all these things, know that he is near at the doors. (Matt 24:29-33)

Are we seeing the sign clearly now?

Time is running out. Taking in accurate knowledge of God and his Christ and then acting on it, will lead to salvation.

 

[Reverend Rick]

I believe the Anti-Christ will be a key player in the last seven years or tribulation period. While there may have been other Anti-Christ's in the past, none will compare to the one in the last times.

He will be a charismatic one world leader.

He will be killed and come back to life.

There will be 21 plagues or judgements during the last seven years during his time on earth.

Satan will be bound for a thousand years after this tribulation period.

No one will be able to buy or sell without the mark of the beast.

There will be a great deceiver who starts a one world religion.

As far as if we will ever see this, every generation has believed it would happen in their life time.

When the glorious appearing occurs and starts the last seven years, he will come like a thief in the night and no man knows the hour when this will happen.

 

[cataway]

I believe the Anti-Christ will be a key player in the last seven years or tribulation period. While there may have been other Anti-Christ's in the past, none will compare to the one in the last times.

He will be a charismatic one world leader.

He will be killed and come back to life.

There will be 21 plagues or judgments during the last seven years during his time on earth.

Satan will be bound for a thousand years after this tribulation period.

No one will be able to buy or sell without the mark of the beast.

There will be a great deceiver who starts a one world religion.

As far as if we will ever see this, every generation has believed it would happen in their life time.

When the glorious appearing occurs and starts the last seven years, he will come like a thief in the night and no man knows the hour when this will happen.

wow, its as if your were tiring to describe the actions of the United Nations (UN)

 

[heksesang]

So I see the antichrist as any form of a religious body who teach things contrary to what Christ taught, denies that he was the son of God, and who adopt unscriptural doctrines that mask the true role of the Christ in God's arrangement.
Some will even try to occupy his 'throne' on earth! :sad:

One thing I know for sure...he is not one man who is still to come. He has been around a long time and he is headed for destruction.

If it is no longer the laws ('love one another') of the previous king (Christ) that the people (the Church) follow, one could say his throne has been occupied. I believe that at some point, the Church will drive its followers away from the true teachings of Christ.

 

[Shiranui117]

But it is interesting that Jesus gave a sign to alert his disciples, not to his 'coming' but to his "presence" (parousia)

And Jesus is with us, even unto the end of the age.

In Matt 24:3, there is a question that his disciples asked him....
"While he was sitting upon the Mount of Olives, the disciples approached him privately, saying: “Tell us, When will these things be, and what will be the sign of your presence and of the conclusion of the system of things?”

Or as it is rendered in the NRSV, “Tell us, when will this be, and what will be the sign of your coming and of the end of the age?”

"Parousia" can mean both "coming" AND "presence.

[SIZE=-1]http://biblesuite.com/greek/parousia_3952.htm[/SIZE]

There is a marked difference between being present and coming. So which is the correct one?

The Greek word "parousia" is also used by the apostle Paul at Phill 2:12, "Consequently, my beloved ones, in the way that you have always obeyed, not during my presence only, but now much more readily during my absence"; Paul's "presence" (parousia) is contrasted with his absence. So the correct translation is obviously "presence"...why is that significant? Because Jesus gave a sign that would indicate that he would be "present"....not that he was on his way. Those who did not discern this difference would be at a disadvantage.

You're making the mistake of assuming that one word has exactly one meaning. As a student of multiple foreign languages, I can ASSURE you that such an assumption is incorrect. One word can have many meanings, and I don't care whether you're talking about Greek, English, German, Russian, or any other language.

So the enthronement of Jesus Christ as King of God's kingdom, (seen by Daniel) is connected with the ousting of satan from heaven and subsequent woe for the earth.

"On this account be glad, you heavens and you who reside in them! Woe for the earth and for the sea, because the Devil has come down to you, having great anger, knowing he has a short period of time."So the rulership of Christ is connected with woe for the earth, not peace,

This will not always be the case, I hope you understand. And in fact, I'm not so sure about the idea that Christ's rule=woe and suffering for man. The REJECTION of Christ's rule may lead to woe for the earth, particularly when those who reject His rule are led by Satan and the demons.

When Jesus' disciples asked him about 'the sign of his presence' and the "end of the age", Jesus gave a series of events that would all occur together in one period of time, indicating that his presence as King of God's kingdom had begun. He spoke about wars and reports of wars, but a different kind of warfare would mark this period. This would be "nation against nation and kingdom against kingdom". In 1914, the world was plunged into a war the likes of which had never occurred in human history before...it was literally the "First World War". Other parts of the sign included 'pestilence, food shortages and earthquakes in one place after another.'...'an increase in lawlessness'. All of which happened just as Jesus said it would.

I'm sorry, but "nation against nation and kingdom against kingdom" had been happening for hundreds and thousands of years before. How about the Thirty Years' War in the 1600's, where you had France, the Holy Roman Empire, Sweden, Denmark, Britain and more fighting against each other? That is very much "nation against nation and kingdom against kingdom."

Or the War of Austrian Succession in the 1740's involving 16 kingdoms and nations?

Or how about the Seven Years' War in the mid-1700's War involving Britain, France, Spain, Prussia, Portugal, the Mughal Empire, the Iroquois, Russia and more? This, BTW, was described as a "world war," as it stretched over vast parts of the world, including Europe, the Indian Subcontinent, the Pacific and the Americas.

I could go on and on and on, but I'll just leave this one here for you: World war - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Suffice it to say that "World War 1" was nothing unusual in terms of the SCALE of warfare. There had been wars just as large as WW1. The only thing special about the WW1 was the advancement of technology and how brutally and bloodily it made things drag on. Shellshock, trench warfare, chemical weapons and machine guns made that war remarkable, not its scale.

Nations have always been fighting against nations, and kingdoms have always been fighting against kingdoms, since before the 1900's, since before the spread of Christianity, since before the Roman Empire, since before Alexander the Great, since before the Persians, since before the Babylonians. The Bible itself even talks about nine kings fighting each other in the time of Genesis.

It is my belief that Christ was enthroned in the heavens that year and that all the features of the sign have been in fulfillment ever since. These are the "last days" of this present system of things. (2 Tim 3:1-5) No doubt about it.

"But of that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, nor the Son, but the Father alone." (Matthew 24:36)

 

[JayJayDee]

If it is no longer the laws ('love one another') of the previous king (Christ) that the people (the Church) follow, one could say his throne has been occupied. I believe that at some point, the Church will drive its followers away from the true teachings of Christ.

I believe that this has already occurred.

An Apostasy (falling away from the teachings of Christ) was foretold by Jesus and his apostles.

“The kingdom of the heavens has become like a man that sowed fine seed in his field. While men were sleeping, his enemy came and oversowed weeds in among the wheat, and left. When the blade sprouted and produced fruit, then the weeds appeared also. So the slaves of the householder came up and said to him, ‘Master, did you not sow fine seed in your field? How, then, does it come to have weeds?’ He said to them, ‘An enemy, a man, did this.’ They said to him, ‘Do you want us, then, to go out and collect them?’ He said, ‘No; that by no chance, while collecting the weeds, you uproot the wheat with them. Let both grow together until the harvest; and in the harvest season I will tell the reapers, First collect the weeds and bind them in bundles to burn them up, then go to gathering the wheat into my storehouse.’”
....his disciples came to him and said: “Explain to us the illustration of the weeds in the field.” In response he said: “The sower of the fine seed is the Son of man; the field is the world; as for the fine seed, these are the sons of the kingdom; but the weeds are the sons of the wicked one, and the enemy that sowed them is the Devil. The harvest is a conclusion of a system of things, and the reapers are angels." (Matt 13:24-30, 36-39)

"Pay attention to yourselves and to all the flock, among which the holy spirit has appointed you overseers, to shepherd the congregation of God, which he purchased with the blood of his own [Son]. I know that after my going away oppressive wolves will enter in among you and will not treat the flock with tenderness, and from among you yourselves men will rise and speak twisted things to draw away the disciples after themselves." (Acts 20:28-30)

"However, brothers, respecting the presence of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being gathered together to him, we request of you not to be quickly shaken from your reason... Let no one seduce you in any manner, because it will not come unless the apostasy comes first and the man of lawlessness gets revealed, the son of destruction.... True, the mystery of this lawlessness is already at work; but only till he who is right now acting as a restraint gets to be out of the way" (2 Thess 2:1-3, 7)

Apostasy was "already at work" when the apostles were still alive, when their restraining influence was removed at their passing, the apostasy gained ascendency.
The history of the church from the second century onward, prove that this is what took place.

 

[JayJayDee]

"Parousia" can mean both "coming" AND "presence.

[SIZE=-1]http://biblesuite.com/greek/parousia_3952.htm[/SIZE]

You're making the mistake of assuming that one word has exactly one meaning. As a student of multiple foreign languages, I can ASSURE you that such an assumption is incorrect. One word can have many meanings, and I don't care whether you're talking about Greek, English, German, Russian, or any other language.

You know, when I was researching this word "parousia" I noticed that in Strong's Concordance, (KJV,) the word "parousia" is rendered "coming in every place except Phillipians 2:12.
What is even more interesting is that the meaning of the word is listed primarily as "presence"...yet it is translated "coming" in all other verses. Why?
Other Strong's references to the word "coming" are 7125, 935, 1980, 4126.
So it's not all that simple is it? "Presence" is not the same as "coming". If you are already here...you are not on your way.

This will not always be the case, I hope you understand. And in fact, I'm not so sure about the idea that Christ's rule=woe and suffering for man. The REJECTION of Christ's rule may lead to woe for the earth, particularly when those who reject His rule are led by Satan and the demons.

Well, that is my point exactly. What if people have been led by satan and his demons all this time? The apostasy foretold by Jesus was already at work back in the first century..."weeds" of false Christianity were sown a long time ago, right after Jesus sowed "the fine seed"....what if it's been a done deal for centuries and nobody knows? Would you put it past the devil to be able to accomplish that? Both the genuine Christians and the fake ones were to "grow together" until it was time for 'the harvest'. By then the separating would be complete. By the time people see Jesus "coming on the clouds of heaven", the separation will be complete and he will instruct his angels to gather the counterfeits and get rid of them.

I'm sorry, but "nation against nation and kingdom against kingdom" had been happening for hundreds and thousands of years before. How about the Thirty Years' War in the 1600's, where you had France, the Holy Roman Empire, Sweden, Denmark, Britain and more fighting against each other? That is very much "nation against nation and kingdom against kingdom."

Suffice it to say that "World War 1" was nothing unusual in terms of the SCALE of warfare. There had been wars just as large as WW1. The only thing special about the WW1 was the advancement of technology and how brutally and bloodily it made things drag on. Shellshock, trench warfare, chemical weapons and machine guns made that war remarkable, not its scale.

The point of the argument was not so much just the scale but the fact that it was in the history of man, The First WORLD WAR. It was followed by the other parts of the sign.
Pestilence in the form of the Spanish Flu, killed more people than the war did. Food shortages were created as resources went into the war effort.
The 20th century has been the bloodiest century in the history of the human race. It suffered through many wars between nations with over 160 million dead, and 64 civil wars with almost six million casualties—not mentioning the tens of millions of civilians slaughtered as well. Nuclear capability took us to the brink of total destruction, not only of mankind but of the earth as well.
As weaponry has continued to become more sophisticated, more and more accurate delivery systems see their targets wiped out with extraordinary precision.

The 21st century has not seen any pause in the violence and bloodshed. Peace has eluded man on this this planet and there does not seem to be a way to stop it.

The Bible foretells a time in the near future when a cry of "Peace and security" will go out to mankind, but it will be followed by the greatest tribulation in our history. (1 Thess 5:1-6; Matt 24:21)

Nations have always been fighting against nations, and kingdoms have always been fighting against kingdoms, since before the 1900's, since before the spread of Christianity, since before the Roman Empire, since before Alexander the Great, since before the Persians, since before the Babylonians. The Bible itself even talks about nine kings fighting each other in the time of Genesis.

True, there have always been wars...but not like the ones we have seen since 1914. Not with the weaponry and not with scale of bloodshed.

"But of that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, nor the Son, but the Father alone." (Matthew 24:36)

“Now learn from the fig tree as an illustration this point: Just as soon as its young branch grows tender and it puts forth leaves, you know that summer is near. Likewise also you, when you see all these things, know that he is near at the doors. (Matt 24:29-33)

"But know this, that in the last days critical times hard to deal with will be here. For men will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money, self-assuming, haughty, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, disloyal, having no natural affection, not open to any agreement, slanderers, without self-control, fierce, without love of goodness, betrayers, headstrong, puffed up [with pride], lovers of pleasures rather than lovers of God, having a form of godly devotion but proving false to its power; and from these turn away." (2 Tim 3:1-5)

When have human beings ever been as pleasure seeking as they are today? The world over we see ungrateful, disobedient youths running amok.
People are selfish, with no self control, lovers of money and the things money can buy.
Some will kill for a pair of designer label shoes! showing a predicted "increasing in lawlessness". Add to that the "great earthquakes in one place after another" we have seen in recent times, and we have the sign Jesus gave fulfilled in every detail. Is this all just coincidence?

 

[Reverend Rick]

The key thing that has not happened but soon will occur is the word will have been heard by the entire planet. That still needs to happen first.