Martin
Spam, wonderful spam (bloody vikings!)
I think the data itself is sound. The problem is politicians being very selective with it.
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England lifts Covid-19 restrictions on daily life even as variant cases spike
- Thread starter danieldemol
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- britain covid-19 restrictions
I think the data itself is sound. The problem is politicians being very selective with it.
Political spin alters the perceived meaning of the data.
SA Huguenot
Well-Known Member
I think you have a problem.
it is one of forgetfullness.
We all will die my dear human sibling.
I am turning 60 soon, and I know well that my chances to survive another 10 years to get to 70 is slim.
The only solitude from your Gran and I, is that we all woke up this morning alive to have one more day to live.
What do you expect, to live forever?
Well, guess what, it might not be something you like, but you are already dying.
Your body is ageing, and is nothing more than a deteriorating carcass that deteriorates faster than it can heal itself.
Where did this worldly mentality come from to think that if somehow, someone dies of an contageous virus, they are somehow now killing people?
such a thinking is just plain foolish!
period!
More people died of flue in the 1.5 years prior to the pandemic in South Africa, than of Covid in the last 1.5 years.
Anyhow, I know of old people who had covid, and survived quite strongly.
Then I know of 3 people close to me who got heart attacks a week after getting the vaccine.
I dont say dont get vaccinated, but be realistic.
Humankind had many pandemics before, milions died, and we are busy dying.
Why the fear?
Are you afraid to die?
Well, news for you, the chances that you dont see tomorrow, is just as poor as a terminaly ill cancer patient.
exchemist
Veteran Member
In our family he has been Bozo (as in Bojo/Bozo the Clown) for several years now.
SA Huguenot
Well-Known Member
This medical expert also did not tell everyone that only 2 thirds of the UK were vaccinated, and he had a slip of tongue in saying 60% of vaccinated people were taken into hospitalisation. There are so many BS going around.
SA Huguenot
Well-Known Member
Actually your interperetation on the % is incorrect.
99.6% of covid hospitalisation cases OVER THE PAST 6 MONTHS were not vaccinated. Now take into account that the vaccination program was not in full swing 6 months ago.
Again, this is pulling percentages into a skew demonstration.
Why will this newspaper do this?
Anyhow, if the head virologist in the UK say that 40% of all covid hospitalisation patients were inocculated, what is the potency of the vaccines?
No one knows, except some people who dont have any stats in support of their claims.
I have one of my colleques in intensive care, after being vaccinated.
Therefore, I do speak on one case knowledge, that all is not as it is said.
3 people I know personally died of heart attacks a week after getting their shot!
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Justanatheist
Well-Known Member
A minimum of 75% after 1 dose, so much higher than just letting people die as you suggested.
https://assets.publishing.service.g...512/Vaccine_surveillance_report_-_week_27.pdf
SA Huguenot
Well-Known Member
TNX for the document.
Nice info.
Do you perhaps have any info on what the survival rate is on people who were infected with the Alpha variant, and got the Delta variant, WHO DID NOT GET THE VACCINE?
I will study the document, naturally, but I see they are using blood donor tests to establish how many people had 'antibodies'.
did they distinquish between natural immunity after infection, and vaccines, or is it all counted as vaccines?
Greetings.
exchemist
Veteran Member
If you spend your time pulling figures out of context, and not trying to understand them, you run the risk of reaching silly conclusions.
Yes 60% of people admitted to hospital are unvaccinated.Yes, that means that 40% have had either one or two doses of vaccine. This statistic does not tell you how many of those have had only one dose. And we know that one dose does not protect much against the delta variant, which is now dominant. My guess is a fair proportion of this 40% will be made up of people with one dose, or with two but before it has kicked in (it takes about 2 weeks to work). But I have not seen data breaking this down so I don't know for sure.
Furthermore, this statistic does not tell you the age profile of those that have had 2 doses but have still ended up in hospital. We know that 2 doses of vaccine protect about 95% against serious illness, across the whole age profile, but that the very old are far more at risk from this disease than younger people. Full vaccination of an 80yr old, with a 95% effective vaccine, reduces his risk of hospitalisation to that of a 50yr old. That is not zero.
So, given that 95% of the very old have been vaccinated, with a vaccine that is only 95% effective, we can expect a steady trickle of old vaccinated people coming to hospital with Covid, just as a result of it being only 95% effective.
There was a good article in the Guardian by David Spiegelhalter about all this stuff a few days ago, here:
Why most people who now die with Covid in England have had a vaccination | David Spiegelhalter and Anthony Masters
He makes the same point: that due to the high level of vaccination among older groups, combined with the imperfect protection that vaccination gives, you expect a significant proportion of those in hospital to have been vaccinated.
But, of course, the absolute number of cases in hospital is far lower than it would have been without vaccines.
So that is what is going on. It is perfectly consistent with the vaccines being effective. But you need to read up on what the statisticians say, rather than jumping to conclusions.
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metis
aged ecumenical anthropologist
That's my impression as well, and here I thought that Trump was out.
Aštra’el
Aštara, Blade of Aštoreth
I agree. Though, this is just as much true for the left as it is for the right.
Pretty much
Martin
Spam, wonderful spam (bloody vikings!)
So far people still seem to be wearing masks in shops, but I don't know how long that will last. I do feel sorry for staff in retail, transport and hospitality, who are now at much greater risk of infection.
With the third wave still in full swing, and uncertainty about the timing and size of the peak, I strongly suspect they will have to reintroduce some restrictions in the autumn - despite Bo-Jo's nonsense about "irreversibility".
With the third wave still in full swing, and uncertainty about the timing and size of the peak, I strongly suspect they will have to reintroduce some restrictions in the autumn - despite Bo-Jo's nonsense about "irreversibility".
Secret Chief
Degrow!
I hope shops carry on as before for everyone's sake. My local supermarket still has signs up basically saying "Wear a Mask or **** Off."
Martin
Spam, wonderful spam (bloody vikings!)
I hope shops carry on as before for everyone's sake. My local supermarket still has signs up basically saying "Wear a Mask or **** Off."
So do I, but I don't think they'll be able to enforce the policy now. Retail staff have had a lot of abuse from chavvy customers during the course of the pandemic.
Wandering Monk
Well-Known Member
What would you believe then?
Wandering Monk
Well-Known Member
The UK has done a pretty good job on vaccination, and the connection between infection and death has been reduced pretty dramatically, but deaths are rising there from the Delta.
Varies by job function, politicians are no no,
