Enlightement

[godnotgod]

Enlightenment seems to have become this obscure unattainable goal only reachable by a few people.
Knowing this, it seems that many of us still cannot stop ourselves from making an effort to somehow understand what it means and figure out what to do to experience this thing that only a few seem to be able to attain.
I am proposing a new perspective that wipes away all of the mystery from this concept of enlightenment and allows everyone to have an opportunity to not only experience what enlightenment means but to have an opportunity to change their lives forever if the desire is there to do so.
This new perspective is called authenticity.
If one will strive to be authentic in all areas of life enlightenment will be the result.
One cannot be authentic without being self aware and one cannot be self aware without becoming enlightened.
There is no mystery in what it means to be authentic.

A few adjustments to your comments, if you don't mind:

Firstly, no one attains Enlightenment. That is a misconception. Why? Simply because everyone is already enlightened. That is our default state of being. It's just that most of us have failed to realize that fact, because we are spiritually asleep. We awaken to our own Enlightenment, just as the dreamer awakens to this worldly reality, the worldly reality always being present. One of the obstacles to this awakening, is that most people think themselves already awake, and so make no effort to look further.

The reason only a few seem to have realized their Enlightenment, even after years of searching, is that they are looking for something beyond what is right under their very nose; for something miraculous that is outside The Ordinary. They don't see it in The Ordinary because their minds have been conditioned since birth by their social indoctrination. So all of the work that an adept must perform is not in trying to 'get enlightened', but rather in trying to detach himself from his conditioning, which prevents him from seeing things as they actually are, which is what Enlightenment actually is. Most humans see things as their conditioned mind tells them they are via their conceptual frameworks about Reality, but not by what Reality itself is.

Q: How can something unauthentic attain that which is authentic? All efforts made by that whose nature is unauthentic can only produce unauthentic results. That which is authentic must first awaken to the fact that something is not quite right. Since we all are already enlightened, we already are authentic, but are pursuing unauthentic goals, due to conditioning.

Actually, enlightenment is the realization that the self is an illusion, so 'self-awareness' is not the experience of Enlightenment; self-awareness still lies within the realm of perceptual reality, and not Ultimate Reality, because it still entertains the existence of 'I'. IOW, the experience of Enlightenment is just that, and does not involve an 'experiencer of the experience', that is an individual self called 'I'.

The authentic spiritual experience is, as Deepak Chopra has noted, 'the merging of the observer, the observed, and the entire process of observation into a single Reality'...

...which is not exactly correct either, since the idea of an observer and the observed is an artificial conceptual framework in a subject/object split created by the mind as a means of the mind trying to 'make sense' of the world we live in. So really, there is no separate 'observer' of the observed that merge one with the other. It only SEEMS that this occurs to the rational mind, the 'Oneness' of Reality already IS the case, which must be seen directly, rather than thought about. What actually occurs is the dissolution of the subject/object split in the mind. It is then that things come into proper focus.

 

[shunyadragon]

So how is it that the Buddha, an ordinary human, was able to realize the highest potential that any human can reach, that of Supreme Enlightenment? Remember that the Buddha declared:

"I gained not a single thing from Supreme Enlightenment'

Therein lies the clue to this question.

I do not consider Buddha an ordinary person, and your quote is the key to what Buddha attained was not what fallible humans claim as enlightenment. The clinging to asceticism, cultural garb and robes, statues temples and imagery in Buddhism today is antithetical to the teachings of Buddha.

 

[Vinayaka]

The ideas on enlightenment are diverse.

 

[shunyadragon]

The ideas on enlightenment are diverse.

Obvious as the sky is Carolina blue at noon on a clear day on the 4th of July in 2018.

A significant part of the problem for the many that claim enlightenment from many diverse and conflicting perspectives.

 

[Vinayaka]

Obvious as the sky is Carolina blue at noon on a clear day on the 4th of July in 2018.

A significant part of the problem for the many that claim enlightenment from many diverse and conflicting perspectives.

Why I wouldn't enter a discussion on it. Everyone talks past each other.

 

[godnotgod]

I do not consider Buddha an ordinary person, and your quote is the key to what Buddha attained was not what fallible humans claim as enlightenment. The clinging to asceticism, cultural garb and robes, statues temples and imagery in Buddhism today is antithetical to the teachings of Buddha.

Well before he was the Buddha, he was certainly an ordinary man, though he was a prince, which has zilch to do with the probability of realizing the enlightened state.

What the Buddha is saying is that he gained not a single thing from his enlightenment experience because he realized he was already enlightened, just as everyone is. To confirm this, the Buddha stated that Buddha Mind is none other than Ordinary Mind.

The clinging to the outward trappings of Buddhism are a problem only if one clings to them. The Buddhist practitioner learns he must cut through all such trappings. Monasteries only provide a setting conducive to the core of Buddhist practice, which is meditation, where monks and roshis can provide guidance. Meditation IS practice, and that is exactly when the Buddha realized Enlightenment.

Say, did you know that THE Buddha was also A buddha?

 

[Thief]

Buddha declared:

"I gained not a single thing from Supreme Enlightenment'

so....Buddha was top of the line.......life form?

and in saying so....declared himself....better

 

[Sunstone]

Over the past twenty years, there has been a rapidly growing scientific effort to study enlightenment. The effort has already born considerable fruit. I recommend any serious student of the subject familiarize themselves with it.

 

[Rinchen]

Im going to add my 2 cents, just for the fun of it.

Enlightenment seems to have become this obscure unattainable goal only reachable by a few people.

Enlightenment hasnt become anything, the ego just makes it appear far off and obscure so you dont strive for it. Enlightenment isnt in the sky, its on the ground, right where you stand.

This is the problem with seeing enlightenment as a "state" or a "goal", rather than the screen upon which states appear. You search for altered states, higher states, etc. But these are not enlightmentment. That which arises, dissolves. States and experiances arise, and they will thus dissolve.

Knowing this, it seems that many of us still cannot stop ourselves from making an effort to somehow understand what it means and figure out what to do to experience this thing that only a few seem to be able to attain.

Those who attain it used the correct methods. In Buddhism, a Buddha (or enlightened being) is dependantly arisen, what a Buddha arises dependantly upon is the perfection of wisdom and compassion. If you do the practices correctly, the result will occur.

I am proposing a new perspective that wipes away all of the mystery from this concept of enlightenment and allows everyone to have an opportunity to not only experience what enlightenment means but to have an opportunity to change their lives forever if the desire is there to do so.
This new perspective is called authenticity.
If one will strive to be authentic in all areas of life enlightenment will be the result.
One cannot be authentic without being self aware and one cannot be self aware without becoming enlightened.
There is no mystery in what it means to be authentic.

Alot of this i agree with, but it can be dangerous in the wrong hands. Just authenticity in and of itself wouldnt be enough. So if a cat is just authentically a cat, it will be enlightened? If i am an authentic liar then i am self-aware of my lying and can attain awakening? Being authentically wise and compassionate, yes. But i dont think authenticity is the only defining difference between us and an awakened being. I know it appears i might be nit-picking, but this should be able to stand up to scrutinty and it doesnt in some cases.

I dont think enlightenment and the path to it should be redefined. That is an ego game to make it feel like it can accomplish a goal. We should allow the path to redefine us and how we view the world and ultimatly, awakening.

Oh, and everything is a mystery. Awakening is just opening your eyes to that fact, rather then trying to fit everything into nice conceptual boxes for the sake of grasping on to the sensation that you "understand".

Of course, take this all with a grain of salt. Just for the sake of discussion.

 

[godnotgod]

I dont think enlightenment and the path to it should be redefined. That is an ego game to make it feel like it can accomplish a goal. We should allow the path to redefine us and how we view the world and ultimatly, awakening.

As one elder archer said to a young overconfident archer:

"The problem with you is that you have one eye on the path, and one eye on the goal, instead of having both eyes on the path"

 

[godnotgod]

so....Buddha was top of the line.......life form?

and in saying so....declared himself....better

The actual complete quote is as follows:

“I gained nothing at all from Supreme Enlightenment, and for that very reason it is called Supreme Enlightenment.” ~ Gautama Buddha

...and from another forum:

"When the mind is empty, enlightenment is perceived. Nothing has been gained, nothing new has been learned. It was always present to begin with, it just couldn't be seen through all of the barriers. What has always been there is now seen and we laugh when we realize that it was there all along.

The effort isn't to attain enlightenment, the effort is to remove the barriers which prevent enlightenment.

Once the barriers to perception are removed, what remains is referred to as enlightenment. Enlightenment isn't something you gain, it's what remains when everything else is removed."

Q: Which is 'better'?: to live this life in suffering and ignorance, or to live it in perfect joy and understanding as to the true nature of things?

 

[ajay0]

Enlightenment seems to have become this obscure unattainable goal only reachable by a few people.

Whosays. Buddha had stated that Buddhahood is there within each and every individual.


One cannot be authentic without being self aware and one cannot be self aware without becoming enlightened.
[/QUOTE]

I do not agree with this. Anyone can become self-aware and practice of self-awareness itself is considered to be a form of enlightenment. It is awareness that destroys unconscious psychological impressions or vasanas/sankharas which ultimately results in enlightenment.

If one waits till enlightenment to become self-aware, it is like putting the cart before the horse.

 

[Thief]

As one elder archer said to a young overconfident archer:

"The problem with you is that you have one eye on the path, and one eye on the goal, instead of having both eyes on the path"

and no eyes on the target......

hehehehehehe

 

[Thief]

The actual complete quote is as follows:

“I gained nothing at all from Supreme Enlightenment, and for that very reason it is called Supreme Enlightenment.” ~ Gautama Buddha

...and from another forum:

"When the mind is empty, enlightenment is perceived. Nothing has been gained, nothing new has been learned. It was always present to begin with, it just couldn't be seen through all of the barriers. What has always been there is now seen and we laugh when we realize that it was there all along.

The effort isn't to attain enlightenment, the effort is to remove the barriers which prevent enlightenment.

Once the barriers to perception are removed, what remains is referred to as enlightenment. Enlightenment isn't something you gain, it's what remains when everything else is removed."

Q: Which is 'better'?: to live this life in suffering and ignorance, or to live it in perfect joy and understanding as to the true nature of things?

as far as I can be sure......an empty mind is obtained......
in a comma

 

[shunyadragon]

Why I wouldn't enter a discussion on it. Everyone talks past each other.

I have no problem with a dialogue, but I was referring to your simplistic statement, which needs much more of substance.

 

[Fool]

A few adjustments to your comments, if you don't mind:

Firstly, no one attains Enlightenment. That is a misconception. Why? Simply because everyone is already enlightened. That is our default state of being. It's just that most of us have failed to realize that fact, because we are spiritually asleep. We awaken to our own Enlightenment, just as the dreamer awakens to this worldly reality, the worldly reality always being present. One of the obstacles to this awakening, is that most people think themselves already awake, and so make no effort to look further.

The reason only a few seem to have realized their Enlightenment, even after years of searching, is that they are looking for something beyond what is right under their very nose; for something miraculous that is outside The Ordinary. They don't see it in The Ordinary because their minds have been conditioned since birth by their social indoctrination. So all of the work that an adept must perform is not in trying to 'get enlightened', but rather in trying to detach himself from his conditioning, which prevents him from seeing things as they actually are, which is what Enlightenment actually is. Most humans see things as their conditioned mind tells them they are via their conceptual frameworks about Reality, but not by what Reality itself is.

Q: How can something unauthentic attain that which is authentic? All efforts made by that whose nature is unauthentic can only produce unauthentic results. That which is authentic must first awaken to the fact that something is not quite right. Since we all are already enlightened, we already are authentic, but are pursuing unauthentic goals, due to conditioning.

Actually, enlightenment is the realization that the self is an illusion, so 'self-awareness' is not the experience of Enlightenment; self-awareness still lies within the realm of perceptual reality, and not Ultimate Reality, because it still entertains the existence of 'I'. IOW, the experience of Enlightenment is just that, and does not involve an 'experiencer of the experience', that is an individual self called 'I'.

The authentic spiritual experience is, as Deepak Chopra has noted, 'the merging of the observer, the observed, and the entire process of observation into a single Reality'...

...which is not exactly correct either, since the idea of an observer and the observed is an artificial conceptual framework in a subject/object split created by the mind as a means of the mind trying to 'make sense' of the world we live in. So really, there is no separate 'observer' of the observed that merge one with the other. It only SEEMS that this occurs to the rational mind, the 'Oneness' of Reality already IS the case, which must be seen directly, rather than thought about. What actually occurs is the dissolution of the subject/object split in the mind. It is then that things come into proper focus.

this is the story of the woman at the well. this is Nehushtan being raised in the desert. This is Christ realized. this is Buddha manifested.


the potential is always there. the actualization is a result of a catalyst. the coals are hot but there is no fuel for the fire until they burn away all their ideas of the personal self.


unless they are born of fire and water they can in no wise inherit the kingdom of god.

now to destroy the temples of ignorance and raise them anew from the ashes - phoenix rising

 

[Fool]

Help me to understand the logic behind this proposal.

If one is a genuinely a horrible ******* and is authentic about it in all areas of life, one will achieve enlightenment?

not possible. the negative path cannot achieve enlightenment. they choose the path of darkness.

 

[Fool]

I do not consider Buddha an ordinary person, and your quote is the key to what Buddha attained was not what fallible humans claim as enlightenment. The clinging to asceticism, cultural garb and robes, statues temples and imagery in Buddhism today is antithetical to the teachings of Buddha.

the middle path doesn't choose asceticism, neither to the left nor the right but straight and narrow is the WAY.

love brings all things into balance by making them equal.

the bread is unleavened until the yeast is activated. the yeast quickeneth the bread counts for nothing.

showbread and hidden manna

 

[shunyadragon]

the middle path doesn't choose asceticism, neither to the left nor the right but straight and narrow is the WAY.

love brings all things into balance by making them equal.

I agree the Middle Way does not choose asceticism.

I do not buy the 'straight and narrow' is the Middle Way. That statement is to dogmatic.

 

[Fool]

I agree the Middle Way does not choose asceticism.

I do not buy the 'straight and narrow' is the Middle Way. That statement is to dogmatic.

you left out the other part, neither to the left nor the right, or neither to hedonism or ascetism but straight and narrow between.

how many angels can dance on a pin head?