Enlighten me please? Questions about homosexuality.

[jeager106]

I should just leave this alone but I'm not going to. Just blame it on the devil.
Are homosexuals hardwired to be what they are?
If you have read my many other posts you've seen that I had friendships with gay men
and a few gay women.
I'm not inclined to act out sexually with a gay person. Fact is to me such a practice is
unappealing. ( I toned that down a bit)
That said why is it that many members here say another member is "homophobic" if a remark
is made that does not outright support gay people?
Phobia is a fear of.................but of what? A fear of gay people or a fear that the one holding
the fear is afraid they themselves might like a gay experience?
Could it be that deep rooted desire for a homosexual experience might lead to the disgusting
violence I've seen inflicted upon gay men?
Hummmm????????
So if I don't openly support the Rainbow movement am I homophobic?
Or perhaps I just don't give a fat rats patoot?
I really do not give a fat rats patoot. I've had gay friends, for all I know I might still have gay friends
that have not "come out". I have gay relatives, cousins in fact. At family reunions NO ONE says
anything bad to them. We treat them like our cousins for crying out loud!
I'll go ahead and confess that I have a grandson that is at least bi but I love him all the same.
Is that wrong? Hell no it ain't wrong.
Why would I not love my precious 19 year old grandson? What does SEX have a friggin' thing
to do with my love of my family.
If gays are hardwired would any "god" hate them for that????????
This recent SCOTUS ruling means almost nothing to me.
The world didn't stop going round now did it? This ruling does help same sex couples in many
legal ways. I doubt it has much emotional impact on two people who are loving partners anyway.
I am not anti-gay nor homophobic. Or a sexist.
I am, however curious. Thus the prime question about hardwired.

 

[LuisDantas]

I should just leave this alone but I'm not going to. Just blame it on the devil.
Are homosexuals hardwired to be what they are?

So to speak. But it is more of a spectrum. Some people are strictly homossexual, some are hetero, and others are bissexual to some degree.

And then there are separate dimensions of sexuality besides sexual preference. For instance, sexual identity.

If you have read my many other posts you've seen that I had friendships with gay men
and a few gay women.
I'm not inclined to act out sexually with a gay person. Fact is to me such a practice is
unappealing. ( I toned that down a bit)

If I understand what you say correctly, there is not even a need to tone it down. Attraction is arbitrary and not at all mandatory.

That said why is it that many members here say another member is "homophobic" if a remark
is made that does not outright support gay people?

When I used that word, I usually mean phobia of homosexuality itself, not of homosexual people specifically. Fear of admittance that homosexuality is natural and must be respected. So I guess falling short of outright support is homophoby far as I am concerned.

Phobia is a fear of.................but of what? A fear of gay people or a fear that the one holding
the fear is afraid they themselves might like a gay experience?
Could it be that deep rooted desire for a homosexual experience might lead to the disgusting
violence I've seen inflicted upon gay men?

Sometimes such seems to be the case, yes.

Hummmm????????
So if I don't openly support the Rainbow movement am I homophobic?

If we are talking about open support, then not necessarily. You may be afraid of the repercussions of support without necessarily disapproving of homosexuality.

Or perhaps I just don't give a fat rats patoot?
I really do not give a fat rats patoot. I've had gay friends, for all I know I might still have gay friends
that have not "come out". I have gay relatives, cousins in fact. At family reunions NO ONE says
anything bad to them. We treat them like our cousins for crying out loud!
I'll go ahead and confess that I have a grandson that is at least bi but I love him all the same.
Is that wrong? Hell no it ain't wrong.
Why would I not love my precious 19 year old grandson? What does SEX have a friggin' thing
to do with my love of my family.

Fair enough, but it does seem to me that this qualifies into caring about the matter.

It is difficult to not care either way in this matter, because hardly anyone knows no LGBT people whatsoever. We usually end up either supporting their rights and dignity or failing to.

If gays are hardwired would any "god" hate them for that????????

I would like to think not.

This recent SCOTUS ruling means almost nothing to me.

Not directly, it seems. But don't you care either way whether any homosexual friends of yours might have new options for their lives now? Or your grandson, even?

The world didn't stop going round now did it? This ruling does help same sex couples in many
legal ways. I doubt it has much emotional impact on two people who are loving partners anyway.

I respectfully disagree. The ruling has a not inconsiderable weight of social and legal recognition. Believe me, that does have emotional impact.

I am not anti-gay nor homophobic. Or a sexist.
I am, however curious. Thus the prime question about hardwired.

Thanks for asking.

 

[Jainarayan]

I'll try to keep it to the point @jeager106

I'm not a fan of the word homophobia though I do use it from time to time. However, I use it far less than I did in the past. Someone has to be really vitriolic against anything gay for me to call them a 'phobe. I don't consider the likes of Pope Benedict XVI, or the late Patriarch Alexei, or the late Archbishop Christodoulos to be homophobes. They're idiots and completely and profoundly ignorant. As a gay man who just wants acceptance from the world - no one who says they don't care what anyone thinks is a liar - it's just as confusing to me that you would not support the causes that would recognize me as someone just like you. But I wouldn't consider you a 'phobe.

Hardwired? To a certain extent, yes. I can't control whom I'm attracted to. And believe me, like many a gay man, I have tried. There are many women I think are very beautiful, but no matter how beautiful they are and no matter how strongly they come on (believe it or not I do get hit on by women ), I cannot get turned on by them. Yet if a certain type of guy I'm attracted to so much as gets really close in my space - boing!!! as well as my heart rate increasing, feeling flushed, etc. I believe that like anything else it's extremely complex being a combination of genetics, hormonal influence, and maybe even external factors. There is no "gay gene", Most of our characteristics are combinations of genes on our chromosomes. For example, something that blew me away when I got my DNA report is that one sequence of my genes codes for not learning well from my mistakes. Yes, I make the same mistakes over and over again. So, if there's a genetic component for me being as dense as I am, why not a genetic component for my sexuality?

I hope that clears a few things up. I for one appreciate your genuine interest. You know the old saying "with knowledge comes wisdom and with wisdom comes understanding".

 

[Skwim]

I'm not inclined to act out sexually with a gay person. Fact is to me such a practice is
unappealing. ( I toned that down a bit)
That said why is it that many members here say another member is "homophobic" if a remark
is made that does not outright support gay people?

I think you may be misconstruing the remark. Most of the posts I've seen that accuse a member of being homophobic arise because that person has made homophobic remarks: remarks indicating anything from a dislike to unabashed loathing of homosexuals .

Phobia is a fear of.................but of what? A fear of gay people or a fear that the one holding
the fear is afraid they themselves might like a gay experience?

It can be more than just "fear of."

pho·bi·a
ˈfōbēə/
noun
noun: phobia; plural noun: phobias​

1. 1. 1. an extreme or irrational fear of or aversion to something.
         "he had a phobia about being under water"
         synonyms: fear, irrational fear, obsessive fear, dread, horror, terror, hatred, loathing, detestation, aversion, antipathy, revulsion;More
         complex, neurosis;
         informalthing, hang-up

So if I don't openly support the Rainbow movement am I homophobic?

Depends on the reason.

If gays are hardwired would any "god" hate them for that????????

A god that killed innocent children and encouraged rape might.

I am, however curious. Thus the prime question about hardwired.

Kirk et al. (2000) in their research using a community-based cohort of Australian twins reported a heritability estimate of 30% for homosexuality. Whitehead (1999, 2006) in his extensive review of the research cites 30% as the estimate of heritability for homosexuality as well, though he views the estimate as a maximum.

(Kirk, K. M., J. M. Bailey, M. P. Dunne and N. G. Martin (2000). Measurement models for sexual orientation in a community twin sample. Behavior Genetics, 30, 4, 2000, 345-356.
Whitehead, Neil and Briar (1999). My Genes Made Me Do It! A Scientific Look at Sexual Orientation. Lafayette, Louisiana: Huntington House Press.
Whitehead, Neil (2006). "What do first ages of SSA or OSA tell us about their origins?" In NARTH Collected Papers.)

Dr. Collins succinctly reviewed the research on homosexuality and offers the following: "An area of particularly strong public interest is the genetic basis of homosexuality. Evidence from twin studies does in fact support the conclusion that heritable factors play a role in male homosexuality. However, the likelihood that the identical twin of a homosexual male will also be gay is about 20% (compared with 2-4 percent of males in the general population), indicating that sexual orientation is genetically influenced but not hardwired by DNA, and that whatever genes are involved represent predispositions, not predeterminations."
source​

 

[seeking4truth]

Why is this question on a 'religious' discussion forum.

If you ask me I would say that all sexual activity outside marriage is immoral and damaging to society according to Abrahamic religious teaching.
In that case there must be some 'fault' genetically, psychologically or socially that has occurred to create homosexual desires.

We correct other genetic, social or psychological 'faults'. Why not sexual ones??

 

[Skwim]

Why is this question on a 'religious' discussion forum.

My guess is because much, if not most, of the homophobia in the USA is rooted in religious belief.

 

[jeager106]

Well I'll be d@mned!
I got just what I'd hoped for. Good, concise and friendly, caring responses. (so far)
O.k. I "get it". Since I do have a beloved, handsome, wonderful grandson then this
ruling DOES have personal impact on me. Not to mention my now aging first cousins.
So perhaps the issue of "hard wiring" may not mean much, if anything.
I even got good info from Skwim.
I really liked the more complete definition of phobia. Not always a fear of but it obviously
can be downright evil!
I could never hate anyone based on sexual orientation or preference.
Frankly I just feel that sort of thing ain't none of my business.
I judge no one based on such a thing. Silly ain't it?

 

[jeager106]

My guess is because much, if not most, of the homophobia in the USA is rooted in religious belief.

Yes. This^^^^^^. If it were not for interpretations of the bible there would not have been such
a wave of genuine homophobia in our past history.

 

[jeager106]

Why is this question on a 'religious' discussion forum.

If you ask me I would say that all sexual activity outside marriage is immoral and damaging to society according to Abrahamic religious teaching.
In that case there must be some 'fault' genetically, psychologically or socially that has occurred to create homosexual desires.

We correct other genetic, social or psychological 'faults'. Why not sexual ones??

You ask why this post is on a religious forum then explain exactly why it's on this forum.

"In that case there must be some 'fault' genetically, psychologically or socially that has occurred to create homosexual desires."
What if they don't want fixed?
"If you ask me I would say that all sexual activity outside marriage is immoral and damaging to society according to Abrahamic religious teaching."

The above isn't part of the discussion here though I would agree with you on that issue.^^

 

[columbus]

I should just leave this alone but I'm not going to. Just blame it on the devil.

Do you realise how happy it sometimes makes people when folks who are admittedly uneducated ask questions? Instead of making sweeping claims about God, Morality, and Everything?
You're such a nice boy.
Tom

 

[Jainarayan]

Why is this question on a 'religious' discussion forum.

If you ask me I would say that all sexual activity outside marriage is immoral and damaging to society according to Abrahamic religious teaching.
In that case there must be some 'fault' genetically, psychologically or socially that has occurred to create homosexual desires.

We correct other genetic, social or psychological 'faults'. Why not sexual ones??

*sigh* I'm going to make this my signature:

"Not everyone believes in the Abrahamic God or the Bible; it is not binding on me as a citizen of the US. The Abrahamic God has no place in US civil law or society."

And who is to determine what is a defect and what is a fault? That's pretty judgemental. Refresher... Matthew 7:1-2.

 

[Jainarayan]

So perhaps the issue of "hard wiring" may not mean much, if anything.

It really doesn't. We make such a big deal of proving or disproving, defending or attacking nature v. nurture, genetic or not, choice or inherent... what does it matter if it is a choice? I don't believe it is, but be that as it may unless there's some deep-seated psychological disturbance e.g. self-destructive behavior, it doesn't matter. Even if we could switch our sexuality on and off or switch tracks as long as there's no harm (either internalized or external) and the person is happy, who gives a crap? Of course, I'm more than a little biased on this score.

 

[Koldo]

Yet if a certain type of guy I'm attracted to so much as gets really close in my space - boing!!!

In other words, if anyone wants to say that people choose to be homosexuals they have to admit they can choose to 'boing!!!' when a guy gets close to them. I guess that settles it...

 

[Jainarayan]

Yes. This^^^^^^. If it were not for interpretations of the bible there would not have been such
a wave of genuine homophobia in our past history.

BOOYAH!!!

 

[Homeby5]

Not to "judge" but since you brought it up, the scripture you quoted does not tell us never to judge one another. It speaks of judging others hypocritically. What Jesus was condemning here was hypocritical, self-righteous judgments of others. Read it in it's entirely.

"For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you. Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother's eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye? How can you say to your brother, ‘Let me take the speck out of your eye’ when all the time there is a plank in your own eye? You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother's eye."

You are absolutely correct. You don't have to believe in the God of Abraham but if not, I would refrain for using His scripture against those that do....

 

[Jainarayan]

In other words, if anyone wants to say that people choose to be homosexuals they have to admit they can choose to 'boing!!!' when a guy gets close to them. I guess that settles it...

I think I follow, but to make sure...

There's a physiologic reaction that can't be controlled, so yeah, I'd have to make myself "boing!". Though if I were innately and inherently attracted to women, why would I get that reaction from a guy? That's where the choice argument fails.

 

[Jainarayan]

It speaks of judging others hypocritically. What Jesus was condemning here was hypocritical, self-righteous judgments of others.

Thank you for agreeing with me. All judgements are hypocritical. No one is so perfect that they can make a non-hypocritical judgement. And remember the verse about being without sin and casting the first stone. No one is without fault or sin, so again, all judgements are hypocritical. Moreover, I was Christian for more than half of my 57 years, and I have not forgotten the Bible.

 

[jeager106]

Getting interesting now hey?

 

[jeager106]

Do you realise how happy it sometimes makes people when folks who are admittedly uneducated ask questions? Instead of making sweeping claims about God, Morality, and Everything?
You're such a nice boy.
Tom

Glad I could be of service to the RF community.

 

[Skwim]

Well I'll be d@mned!
I got just what I'd hoped for.
I even got good info from Skwim.
I really liked the more complete definition of phobia. Not always a fear of but it obviously
can be downright evil!
I could never hate anyone based on sexual orientation or preference.
Frankly I just feel that sort of thing ain't none of my business.
I judge no one based on such a thing. Silly ain't it?

Boy, I guess that put me in my place.