Enlightenment

[osgart]

A lot of eastern philosophy would propose that enlightenment is not found in the acquisition of knowledge, or even wisdom, but in the letting go of it, to the very purpose you suggest ... to simply be what we are, humbly, honestly, spontaneously, and generously.

I would part ways with the letting go aspect as an automatic process that produces that result for everybody. I consider it one's choice, or fall of heart. Letting go of knowing the choices, and the roads one can follow and letting go of any wisdom sounds like a dangerous road to follow. Although once one arrives at the end of their life here they are going to do a lot of letting go.

I think being alive means you'll have to know things. I don't think everyone falls to the same results. Knowing enough about everything you can determine what to let go of better.

In other ways I think, if one is humble, honest, spontaneous, and generous, then perhaps there comes a time when letting go of all that one knows and is and has accumulated might actually serve well in special circumstances.

There are times where people might have a deathgrip on all that they possess and all that is, and it keeps them from living and they'll have to let go to grow. But it takes knowing enough, and being wise enough to know what to let go of.

I'm not sure any of this is so easily done; especially to the desired outcome.

I also think that if one is hanging onto the wrong information; knowledge or wisdom, then letting go of falsehoods would serve them well.

For me, not knowing enough or being wise enough leads to absolute suffering.

 

[Balthazzar]

I don't care for the word acknowledge, as that suggests a mental cognition, like the acceptance of a propositional truth. Awareness is a good word however. Illumination is good as well. The best metaphors are having the blinders removed and seeing Reality as it is.

One of my favorite metaphors in the Bible is the story of the veil in the temple being ripped from top to bottom as Jesus died. The symbolism of this captures the Enlightenment experience well. The veil separates the external world of form, from the Holy of Holies, or the interior room with the Divine Presence resides. The veil represents the flesh, or the earthly mind that interfaces with visible world of form, which inside the Divine remains concealed. Upon the death, or surrender of the flesh, or the mind, the veil is torn apart and the Presence of the Divine bursts forth into the world.

Quite literally, that is what it is experienced like. What was hidden, is now revealed. The Divine is seen and recognized "Face to Face", and we "Know, even as we are known". We then recognize what we thought we knew and believed to be truth, was "seeing through a glass darkly". The Hindus describe that as maya, or the world of illusion. We mistake what we perceive through the mind as reality, as reality itself.

In a sense. We become able to see through the eyes of compassion at deeper levels once we are out of ourselves, so to speak. I wouldn't believe that to include mind-reading however.

I can relate my experience only here, and say that when I was younger I had a spontaneous Awakening experience, where the 'veil' was pulled back and I experienced that profound state of Oneness with all that was arising in the moment in everything.

I describe is as living Light, Love, and Life itself radiating from everything, every blade of grass, every molecule of air, from the earth, from the sky, and then from the most unimaginable, unfathomable depth below, burst forth that self-same wellspring of Life itself up through me out into the world in an exchange of the living, Infinite, energetic Love and Light, from everything, to everything, and through everything, which instantly transformed my entire being.

At that moment, there were three young people walking towards me, and I could see this radiant Light coming from each of them as it was in everything else. I felt absolute Joy, Love, and fearlessness at that moment. But I was struck by seeing their eyes, and how that none of them seemed aware of what and who they were, what I was seeing that they were. I felt this almost sympathetic bewilderment at their unawareness, but also a recognition that that was how I had been living my life, trapped inside of my own isolated "thought world" as I later recognized it.

It was the unreality of my own mind, that world of illusion, that they each like I had been were trapped within. It is the "normal" human condition of the metaphorical "fall", where we experience separation from the Divine, into the world of "sin", but understood as blindness to what is, or unawareness of Reality, or God.

That experience subsided for me, and of course I 'fell' back into the separate self. But it forever changed me and set my path on the path of return Home to that. What was spontaneous in my youth, is a gradual return in my older years. But my point here, that yes, I could relate empathetically to others, and do now to varying degrees, in my continuing growth, but not mind reading.

One thing of curious note to make here though, is that empathetically, I am finding greater connections with animals and they with me. I have been surprised to see how close rabbit in my backyard are willing to be close to me. They literally walk slowly right past me while I am standing there, within a couple feet of me. I could just stick my foot out and tap it. It's like "hello there!" LOL. It's strange and surprising, but not at the same time.

Honestly, I think it's just that animals can pick up on feeling safe energetically from others. And the other was around as well. So in that sense, that living connection does increase the more we are out of our own anxious 'thought world', or separation, and the more we are seeing and listening and participating in the Divine, or Reality. It's all about increasing Awareness and living connection, I am learning.


I would say so. Aside from the spontaneous experience, for it to become a permanent condition, this is something we need to cultivate and practice and become. This is where the teachings of Wisdom traditions come in, "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you", help to eliminate obstacles that block that connection with the Divine.

There are of course other things, such as meditation practices, physical practices such as bodily awareness and health, etc. We are after all, in the flesh, and if the flesh itself in unwell, it affects the whole. Spirituality is body, mind, soul and spirit together. Not just transcendence, but grounding. A kite skittering away untethered, is not truly a kite soaring in the heavens above.

That is to me what it means to be Enlightened. Head in the clouds, with the feet firmly planted on the earth. That to me is the meaning of the Incarnation, or the Son of God. A child of God and a child of Earth.

I won't argue your points. I think getting our heads out of the clouds is where we begin to see more clearly. We tend to "sleep" our way through life unintentionally. It's the getting grounded in truth reality that opens our eyes to illumination. Enlightenment isn't a term I use for this concept or for this awakened state of being. I typically wouldn't utilize the term illumination either, but then maybe we're speaking of two very different things. I don't think we are, but then I don't know everything. I grasp hold of things that are true, both objective truths and subjective truths. These truth's awaken me to my unique individuality and it helps me better navigate according to my needs as a person, given I travel life solo at the moment. When others are added into the picture their truths would likewise affect my own, which would inevitably lead to even deeper truths being revealed, which in turn would create a more aware sense of awareness. I like the term acknowledge actually because it is in acknowledgement that we are able to grasp certain principles and truths about life.

 

[Twilight Hue]

A lot of eastern philosophy would propose that enlightenment is not found in the acquisition of knowledge, or even wisdom, but in the letting go of it, to the very purpose you suggest ... to simply be what we are, humbly, honestly, spontaneously, and generously.

Pretty much.

Enlightenment isn't something that a person acquires or keeps after they die.

 

[Windwalker]

I won't argue your points. I think getting our heads out of the clouds is where we begin to see more clearly.

That's interesting you took that one metaphor and read it in that way. Not what I meant at all. I am not talking about being a daydreamer, or having lofty but unrealistic goals, "having your head in the clouds". I'm talking about the Transcendent. Not ideas. I was speaking of seeing beyond the veil of the flesh; seeing Face to Face, knowing as we are known. Etc.

My point being that while we can access that Eternal, Infinite energy or the Divine, we are also human beings, and in order for that to have true power in our lives, it must be grounded. In Tai Chi, they speak of Heaven, Earth, and Human. That's what I am talking about. The energy of the Divine, and the ground of the earth, with us in between, embodying those as the divine human, or the "incarnation".

It's the getting grounded in truth reality that opens our eyes to illumination.

I would question what you mean here. Are you talking about grounded in our ideas about reality through science and reason? In a sense, yes, those are useful to help keep our feet firmly planted on earth, but that will not grant you illumination that comes through the Transcendent. It is called the Transcendent for a reason. It transcends reason.

Enlightenment isn't a term I use for this concept or for this awakened state of being. I typically wouldn't utilize the term illumination either, but then maybe we're speaking of two very different things.

I believe we must be. If you read my descriptions of my experiences, as an example, it's pretty clear I was not talking about an idea that occurred to me that was revelatory.

I don't think we are, but then I don't know everything. I grasp hold of things that are true, both objective truths and subjective truths. These truth's awaken me to my unique individuality and it helps me better navigate according to my needs as a person, given I travel life solo at the moment.

Not at all what I was talking about. I do understand these things, and they are valuable and important, but what I described does not fit that. Coming to terms with our authentic self is indeed liberating, but it is not the same thing as an Enlightenment experience.

When others are added into the picture their truths would likewise affect my own, which would inevitably lead to even deeper truths being revealed, which in turn would create a more aware sense of awareness. I like the term acknowledge actually because it is in acknowledgement that we are able to grasp certain principles and truths about life.

Again, all very good and important, for me as well. I call that self-actualization, or coming to accept and know our authentic unique self. What Enlightenment is is knowing the Divine as your true Self, that the core of who you are is not other to God. Enlightenment is the dissolution of the separate self, not getting to know yourself better.

To use the language of the Christian mystic Meister Eckhart, "The eye through which I see God is the same eye through which God sees me; my eye and God's eye are one eye, one seeing, one knowing, one love." Or as Jesus would say, "I and my Father are One."

 

[Aupmanyav]

I don't understand the concept of enlightenment, nor why anyone would choose it if what I've read of it is anything remotely accurate. Can anyone explain the benefits?

Do you read about the progress of science? Do you read about political developments around the world? Why do you do that? In what way is it important for you? Things will happen even if you do not follow them?
Questions about God or the world too, fall in this category. It is not important to know that for all people, but some people spend time and energy to do that. Knowledge makes our actions and responses better.
Enlightenment is to have understood things.

 

[Aupmanyav]

I decided to use my enlightenment to build a new conceptual foundation, nearby.
I build nearby, anyway, since the cracks are getting worse,

Ah, used your enlightenment to put God-putty on the cracks? Nice engineering.

 

[Balthazzar]

That's interesting you took that one metaphor and read it in that way. Not what I meant at all. I am not talking about being a daydreamer, or having lofty but unrealistic goals, "having your head in the clouds". I'm talking about the Transcendent. Not ideas. I was speaking of seeing beyond the veil of the flesh; seeing Face to Face, knowing as we are known. Etc.

My point being that while we can access that Eternal, Infinite energy or the Divine, we are also human beings, and in order for that to have true power in our lives, it must be grounded. In Tai Chi, they speak of Heaven, Earth, and Human. That's what I am talking about. The energy of the Divine, and the ground of the earth, with us in between, embodying those as the divine human, or the "incarnation".


I would question what you mean here. Are you talking about grounded in our ideas about reality through science and reason? In a sense, yes, those are useful to help keep our feet firmly planted on earth, but that will not grant you illumination that comes through the Transcendent. It is called the Transcendent for a reason. It transcends reason.

I believe we must be. If you read my descriptions of my experiences, as an example, it's pretty clear I was not talking about an idea that occurred to me that was revelatory.

Not at all what I was talking about. I do understand these things, and they are valuable and important, but what I described does not fit that. Coming to terms with our authentic self is indeed liberating, but it is not the same thing as an Enlightenment experience.

Again, all very good and important, for me as well. I call that self-actualization, or coming to accept and know our authentic unique self. What Enlightenment is is knowing the Divine as your true Self, that the core of who you are is not other to God. Enlightenment is the dissolution of the separate self, not getting to know yourself better.

To use the language of the Christian mystic Meister Eckhart, "The eye through which I see God is the same eye through which God sees me; my eye and God's eye are one eye, one seeing, one knowing, one love." Or as Jesus would say, "I and my Father are One."

I didn't intend to imply that your head was in the clouds. I was speaking of how people tend to begin and the way we often see and understand things. Superstition is what I was referring to and there seems to be no shortage of that on earth. I am not exempt from never being superstitious, so I was actually speaking from some experience. I can relate to your last couple statements. We are together a singularity. As he was, so are we in the world ... or something like that, yet each of us with unique function as body parts of the collective entirety. I guess not letting our left hand know what our right is doing is somewhat a default position, and I will assume enforced intentionally from time to time. I wonder if the reference is referring to our conscious and subconscious selves also, the two being aspects of our lefts and rights?

Anyway, I enjoy your posts and won't argue your points. I do make attempt to help clarify my personal stance on the matters. Much of our misunderstandings come from the way we articulate how we see and view things.

 

[PureX]

I would part ways with the letting go aspect as an automatic process that produces that result for everybody. I consider it one's choice, or fall of heart. Letting go of knowing the choices, and the roads one can follow and letting go of any wisdom sounds like a dangerous road to follow. Although once one arrives at the end of their life here they are going to do a lot of letting go.

I think being alive means you'll have to know things. I don't think everyone falls to the same results. Knowing enough about everything you can determine what to let go of better.

In other ways I think, if one is humble, honest, spontaneous, and generous, then perhaps there comes a time when letting go of all that one knows and is and has accumulated might actually serve well in special circumstances.

There are times where people might have a deathgrip on all that they possess and all that is, and it keeps them from living and they'll have to let go to grow. But it takes knowing enough, and being wise enough to know what to let go of.

I'm not sure any of this is so easily done; especially to the desired outcome.

I also think that if one is hanging onto the wrong information; knowledge or wisdom, then letting go of falsehoods would serve them well.

For me, not knowing enough or being wise enough leads to absolute suffering.

I think the 'letting go of knowing' refers to our trying to control the world by presuming to know how and why it is what it is. The idea is not to let go of knowing how to screw a bolt onto a nut, or drive a car, or ... etc.,. It's about letting go of our plans for making the world comply with our notions of how it ought to be, and who we ought to be, to it.

Honesty, humility, and spontaneity refer to letting go of the idea of self: of who we think we are and are supposed to be, so that we can actually be who we truly are and were intended to be. And in being who we truly are, the world will then know how to use us properly, and we will fulfill our rightful place in it, automatically. We have to give up the "self", to find our selves.

The choice (good and evil) that westerners struggle with is not much of an issue in eastern religion or philosophy. As they perceive the Yin and the Yang as being two aspects of the same whole (the Tao). A whole that we humans cannot comprehend, but that we can align ourselves with via this 'letting go'.

 

[YmirGF]

I no longer believe in enlightenment, per se, but do acknowledge ever expanding awareness.

 

[Karma77]

I don't understand the concept of enlightenment, nor why anyone would choose it if what I've read of it is anything remotely accurate. Can anyone explain the benefits?

nobody chooses enlightenment. It comes only to those who seek it.
The goal of Enlightenment is eventually to get out of the cycle of birth & death - this is the benefit, Balthazzar!
People want to get out of this place - Earth - like forever.
In the past, mystics who meditated and found the way to enlightenment started teaching others.
Nowadays, it's more like a trend. There are only 1-2 people in the world in 2023 who would really be enlightened i guess.
Others are simply moving with the trend and making this a profession...lol!

 

[SalixIncendium]

nobody chooses enlightenment. It comes only to those who seek it.

Seeking is a choice, isn't it?

 

[RestlessSoul]

That just has to do with how light is reflecting at that moment and how the camera captures the light.

But it also has to do with the perception, and state of mind, of the observer. What I see when I look at a thing has as much to do with my own inner landscape, as it does with the thing I’m looking at.

 

[rocala]

Enlightenment is the ending of ignorance, and is an ongoing process

but do acknowledge ever expanding awareness.

Whatever it is, I believe the above comments are the right way to look at the question.
I cannot look at this as some sort of digital on/off situation.

 

[Balthazzar]

nobody chooses enlightenment. It comes only to those who seek it.
The goal of Enlightenment is eventually to get out of the cycle of birth & death - this is the benefit, Balthazzar!
People want to get out of this place - Earth - like forever.
In the past, mystics who meditated and found the way to enlightenment started teaching others.
Nowadays, it's more like a trend. There are only 1-2 people in the world in 2023 who would really be enlightened i guess.
Others are simply moving with the trend and making this a profession...lol!

Why?

 

[Karma77]

Seeking is a choice, isn't it?

That's what i said...duh!!

 

[SalixIncendium]

That's what i said...duh!!

Is it, though? Just to save people some scrolling...

nobody chooses enlightenment. It comes only to those who seek it.

If one chooses to seek enlightenment, then any enlightenment that results is the product of a choice. Therefore, your statement that no one chooses enlightenment isn't accurate, is it?

 

[Ella S.]

You might be struggling to understand it because "enlightenment" is an umbrella term that doesn't refer to a single concept. It's an English word that's used to lump a variety of concepts together.

It can refer to gnosis, moksha, parinibbana, satori, kensho, jnana, theoria, and more, each of which are distinct ideas from separate religious traditions.

 

[DNB]

I don't understand the concept of enlightenment, nor why anyone would choose it if what I've read of it is anything remotely accurate. Can anyone explain the benefits?

Enlightenment is simply gaining more insight and understanding to a particular matter, than what you had before.
If you learnt anything from your first enlightened experience, then you would continue to apply perception, and consequently acquire more enlightenment.