Environmental Extremism in California

[Super Universe]

You still have not demonstrated they are extremists. They are researchers, those with a PhD who have studied the issues more in depth because they rest of us are doing other things. If the Pacific Institute are extremists, then so is NASA, NOAA, APA, and pretty much every other research-based organization.

I used the term extremists because the Pacific Institute goes to exaggerated lengths to make their case. They provide misleading information to the point where it's essentially lying to the public.

Lie #1: Conserving water saves water.

Truth: Not using water just lets it flow into the ocean where it becomes salt water again. Not using water is actually wasting it. Water is not destroyed by use. When you use water, either inside your home or outside your home, it ends up back in the river which goes to the ocean anyway so why not use it?

Lie #2: We can achieve all of our future water needs by recycling and conservation.

Truth: Water conservation numbers issued by some cities are misleading because the environmentalists have labelled non-use of water as "savings" when the non-use of water is actually wasting it. Communities that have an endless supply of water, such as a river that never runs dry, CAN'T save water. If they don't use the water, it's not saved, it's wasted in the ocean.

Lie #3: California has no more suitable dam sites.

We may not have any suitable sites for large dams but there are many suitable sites for small dams high in the mountains.

Misleading Claim: Dams harm fish.

Truth: Reservoirs behind dams provide habitat for marine life. Some tiny fish get through the screens and are sucked into the pipes that feed the electricity generators, they either make it through to the river below or they don't survive. But, rivers that don't have a dam to provide flood control over flow their banks and deposit fish onto farmland to die, so it's a toss up.

The migratory fish species, salmon and rainbow trout, can't get past the dam to reach their mountain spawning grounds but California has built fisheries at every major dam. Problem solved.

Misleading Claim: Dams increase CO2 emissions because leaves fall into their reservoirs and decompose and release CO2.

Truth: Leaves fall on the ground and decompose and wildland fires then release the CO2, so, either way the CO2 locked into leaves get's released. Dams don't increase the CO2 released by leaves.

People don't like to think for themselves. They want the smart people to take care of things. The problem is that some of the smart people have agenda's so they mislead people in order to get their way. They don't want any more dams.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

I used the term extremists because the Pacific Institute goes to exaggerated lengths to make their case. They provide misleading information to the point where it's essentially lying to the public.

Lie #1: Conserving water saves water.

Truth: Not using water just lets it flow into the ocean where it becomes salt water again. Not using water is actually wasting it. Water is not destroyed by use. When you use water, either inside your home or outside your home, it ends up back in the river which goes to the ocean anyway so why not use it?

Lie #2: We can achieve all of our future water needs by recycling and conservation.

Truth: Water conservation numbers issued by some cities are misleading because the environmentalists have labelled non-use of water as "savings" when the non-use of water is actually wasting it. Communities that have an endless supply of water, such as a river that never runs dry, CAN'T save water. If they don't use the water, it's not saved, it's wasted in the ocean.

Lie #3: California has no more suitable dam sites.

We may not have any suitable sites for large dams but there are many suitable sites for small dams high in the mountains.

Misleading Claim: Dams harm fish.

Truth: Reservoirs behind dams provide habitat for marine life. Some tiny fish get through the screens and are sucked into the pipes that feed the electricity generators, they either make it through to the river below or they don't survive. But, rivers that don't have a dam to provide flood control over flow their banks and deposit fish onto farmland to die, so it's a toss up.

The migratory fish species, salmon and rainbow trout, can't get past the dam to reach their mountain spawning grounds but California has built fisheries at every major dam. Problem solved.

Misleading Claim: Dams increase CO2 emissions because leaves fall into their reservoirs and decompose and release CO2.

Truth: Leaves fall on the ground and decompose and wildland fires then release the CO2, so, either way the CO2 locked into leaves get's released. Dams don't increase the CO2 released by leaves.

People don't like to think for themselves. They want the smart people to take care of things. The problem is that some of the smart people have agenda's so they mislead people in order to get their way. They don't want any more dams.

It seems you should take an Earth Science class at your local community college or whatever.

 

[Super Universe]

It seems you should take an Earth Science class at your local community college or whatever.

Five years of college, all in science. GPA of 3.72, what was yours?

Could you please explain how letting water flow right by your city and not using it is somehow "saving" it?

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Could you please explain how letting water flow right by your city and not using it is somehow "saving" it?

Because the water doesn't just pack up and move to the ocean. We have these things called water tables, aquifers, and wells.

Five years of college, all in science. GPA of 3.72,

"All in science?"
As for me, my GPA is equal, and while my main focus is psychology, I also have English, philosophy, and art, and will hopefully begin working on my Master's next year. And I also did take biology, Earth science, astrology, chemistry, and some computer science, so though my main focus is the social sciences, I have at the same time a solid foundation in the natural sciences.
And I pretty much waltz my way through undergrad making stellar grades with sub-par effort.

 

[Super Universe]

Can you explain how letting fresh water flow by your city and not using it "saves" that water?

Because the water doesn't just pack up and move to the ocean. We have these things called water tables, aquifers, and wells.

"All in science?"
As for me, my GPA is equal, and while my main focus is psychology, I also have English, philosophy, and art, and will hopefully begin working on my Master's next year. And I also did take biology, Earth science, astrology, chemistry, and some computer science, so though my main focus is the social sciences, I have at the same time a solid foundation in the natural sciences.
And I pretty much waltz my way through undergrad making stellar grades with sub-par effort.

Water doesn't just pack up and move to the ocean? Yeah, it kind of does. They're called rivers. It actually does it all by itself, no one has to tell it to do that. Sometimes the rivers flow into an inland lake. Sometimes they flow into a depression and simply soak into the ground or completely evaporate but most of the time the rivers go to the ocean.

There are things called water tables? Yeah, water tables, that is water that seeps into the ground and when the water table is high that water actually drains into streams and rivers, so, it goes right back to the ocean.

There are things called aquifers? An aquifer is just a complicated way of saying water table. Some aquifers are near the surface (water table) and some are confined beneath rock layers and have to be tapped with a well. Either way, using water outside your home fills the water table/aquifer, and that is a good thing. It's better than letting the fresh water go back to the ocean unused where it just gets contaminated with salt.

Not all of my courses were in science, I had to take a stupid logic class, English classes, economics, math, but science was my major.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Either way, using water outside your home fills the water table/aquifer, and that is a good thing.

Do you know why water is so expensive in Europe?

I had to take a stupid logic class

"Stupid" logic class? That is very revealing.

but science was my major.

"Science" is not an actual major.

 

[Super Universe]

Do you know why water is so expensive in Europe?

"Stupid" logic class? That is very revealing.

"Science" is not an actual major.

Do I know why water is so expensive in Europe? Nope, I don't. Maybe it's because Europe is too socialist where some countries actually pay people to be artists and some countries provide 20 year retirements to people who just cut hair? Or, maybe it's because some European countries shut down business at noon and the workers go home to take a nap, then they open the store at about 4 pm again. I actually looked it up though and found something that says that the cost of water in Europe is wide ranging, it's almost free in some places.

Let me ask you this, if you use water, where does it go after you use it?

We have to get away from this idea that using water is equal to wasting water. Not using it is wasting it.

Yes, the logic class was stupid. Wasting time learning Greek logic, what is a valid and invalid argument. An argument can be perfectly valid but still be wrong. You didn't think that logic means truth, did you?

Science is not a major? I'm not telling you my major.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Do I know why water is so expensive in Europe?

Their aquifers are tapped. Because they have been used up. Some places you even have to pay to take a shower, because water is not overly abundant like it is in many places throughout America.

Let me ask you this, if you use water, where does it go after you use it?

For me, personally, it goes into a septic tank and then back into the well.

Science is not a major? I'm not telling you my major.

That's what I figured.

 

[Super Universe]

Their aquifers are tapped. Because they have been used up. Some places you even have to pay to take a shower, because water is not overly abundant like it is in many places throughout America.

For me, personally, it goes into a septic tank and then back into the well.

That's what I figured.

In California we have a very wet northern part of the state and a very dry southern part of the state. The main rivers (the Sacramento and San Joaquin) are large and never stop flowing, even after years of drought.

So, some of the major cities have a constant and never ending supply of water. Sacramento actually has two rivers that flow through the city, the Sacramento and the American river. They never stop flowing, yet, Sacramento water managers voted to continue water restrictions because the public needs to get used to "saving" water. If they don't use the water it goes into the ocean. How is not using fresh water and allowing it to turn salty, "saving" it?

Your water goes into a septic tank and then back into a well? You'd better hope it doesn't go from your leach field back into your well. It goes into the water table. If you live in a mountainous area you should see bubbles in the seasonal streams. The bubbles are from the soap that goes down your drain and into your septic tank and leach field lines and then drains into the ground.

What do you think happens to the water you use outside your house? Where does it go?

 

[Shadow Wolf]

some of the major cities have a constant and never ending supply of water.

No where on this planet has a never ending supply of water.

 

[Super Universe]

No where on this planet has a never ending supply of water.

No where on this planet has a never ending supply of water? Really? When has the Mississippi River stopped flowing? How about the Sacramento River? The San Joaquin River? The Danube River? The Yangtze? The Congo River? The Amazon? The Nile? The Euphrates? The Ganges?

Just name one time that they stopped flowing. Just one.

Using water is not wasting it. It ends up back in the ocean no matter what you do with it.