I pictured you standing behind a lectern when you said this.
What does this have to do with the questions in the OP? Everybody dies. Seems like gratuitous preaching to me.
-
Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.
Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:- Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
- Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
- Access to private conversations with other members.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!
Eternal hell or annihillation make no sense
- Thread starter Starlight
- Start date
What does this have to do with the questions in the OP? Everybody dies. Seems like gratuitous preaching to me.
Regiomontanus
Eastern Orthodox
I think I have plugged this book before, but
That All Shall Be Saved: Heaven, Hell, and Universal Sa…
The great fourth-century church father Basil of Caesare…
If you look at the writings of many of the Church Fathers, a strong case could be made for universal salvation (that is, not eternal punishment in Hell).
Colt
Well-Known Member
This was the question in the OP that I was answering: "What is your thoughts about this?" I answered it.
From your answer, I have no idea what your thoughts are on whether or not punishment is infinitive, which is what the OP is asking.
muhammad_isa
Veteran Member
..and that's the key..
The question then becomes "will there be any souls that remain unrepentant?"
..and the answer is, unfortunately, yes.
The Kilted Heathen
Crow FreyjasmaðR
As uncomfortable a thought as it is, even that is a finite action. How many mass murders have been forgotten by history and living memory, or were unknown entirely?
Some people are scum and need to be disposed of appropriately
I.e. being permanently deleted
Which I think would be remarkably humane and merciful
I have no horse in the race.
I was just wondering what the OP's thoughts were on this and if she was of the belief that whether punishments for such things are served per person concurrently or consecutively.
Regiomontanus
Eastern Orthodox
Probably meant infinite and finite?
Colt
Well-Known Member
First, we need to consider what "sin" as I understand it actually means.
"Sin must be redefined as deliberate disloyalty to Deity. There are degrees of disloyalty: the partial loyalty of indecision; the divided loyalty of confliction; the dying loyalty of indifference; and the death of loyalty exhibited in devotion to godless ideals."
"Although conscious and wholehearted identification with evil (sin) is the equivalent of nonexistence (annihilation), there must always intervene between the time of such personal identification with sin and the execution of the penalty—the automatic result of such a willful embrace of evil—a period of time of sufficient length to allow for such an adjudication of such an individual’s universe status as will prove entirely satisfactory to all related universe personalities, and which will be so fair and just as to win the approval of the sinner himself.
But if this universe rebel against the reality of truth and goodness refuses to approve the verdict, and if the guilty one knows in his heart the justice of his condemnation but refuses to make such confession, then must the execution of sentence be delayed in accordance with the discretion of the Ancients of Days. And the Ancients of Days refuse to annihilate any being until all moral values and all spiritual realities are extinct, both in the evildoer and in all related supporters and possible sympathizers." UB 1988
So, by the individual's final decision, finitive sins eventually become infinitive in final judgment, hence "the wages of sins is death". NOT eternal hell torment but annihilation!
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
What do you think the Son's requirements are that aren't easy to follow?
Unfettered
A striving disciple of Jesus Christ
There is too much nuance to cover here in a couple sentences, but I'd offer that hell is certainly a real inheritance, but most who reside in that condition will be removed after a time because of the mercy of Jesus Christ. Relatively very few will reside in hell forever, and those who do will be there because they chose to be, in full view of what they were choosing. All will receive an inheritance suited to their condition, meaning what they are, which is the sum of their desires, actions, thoughts and words. It's both just and merciful. That's my understanding.
Love your God with all your heart soul and mind. Love your neighbor as yourself. Depending on your interpretation of Love it's pretty hard.
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
That is also my understanding.
muhammad_isa
Veteran Member
Yes, it is sadly so, that many of us willfully choose to remain unrepentant.
Unfettered
A striving disciple of Jesus Christ
Agreed. Even so, my understanding is that even the unrepentant will ultimately be removed from hell to inherit an existence in the light. It takes far more than even refusal to repent to make one conditioned for an eternal hell.
muhammad_isa
Veteran Member
Unfettered
A striving disciple of Jesus Christ
I understand that God has said that he would ultimately remove unrepentant sinners from hell. That's what gives me confidence enough in the idea to post it.How would I know? I'm not G-d.
..but I wouldn't count on it..
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
Perchance do you have the Bible verses that say that? I haven't seen them, but I am not very familiar with the Bible.I understand that God has said that he would ultimately remove unrepentant sinners from hell. That's what gives me confidence enough in the idea to post it.
Unfettered
A striving disciple of Jesus Christ
The scriptures I would most readily cite are not recorded in the Bible, but are found in scriptures that constitute modern revelation. I don't know that it is expounded as clearly in the Bible.Perchance do you have the Bible verses that say that? I haven't seen them, but I am not very familiar with the Bible.
Note verse 85 here: Doctrine and Covenants 76
And here the Lord corrects man's misunderstanding of what "endless torment" and "eternal damnation" mean: Doctrine and Covenants 19
In short, if men don't repent, they must suffer the kind of suffering that God (God the Son, Jesus Christ) suffered, which is referred to as "endless" (as God is endless) and "eternal" (as God is eternal). But except for the sons of perdition, God ends all that suffering; he redeems sufferers from the endless suffering and eternal damnation they experience. So the vast majority of those who experience hell will see an end to that suffering, because of the mercy of Jesus Christ.
Hope that helps.
Last edited: