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Eternal Salvation
- Thread starter JayHawes
- Start date
*Paul*
Jesus loves you
I could give you examples of the verses they use but I don't believe you can loose your salvation.
Mat 19:16-24
(16) And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?
(17) And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.
(18) He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness,
(19) Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
(20) The young man saith unto him, All these things have I kept from my youth up: what lack I yet?
(21) Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come and follow me.
(22) But when the young man heard that saying, he went away sorrowful: for he had great possessions.
(23) Then said Jesus unto his disciples, Verily I say unto you, That a rich man shall hardly enter into the kingdom of heaven.
(24) And again I say unto you, It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God.
(16) And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?
(17) And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.
(18) He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness,
(19) Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
(20) The young man saith unto him, All these things have I kept from my youth up: what lack I yet?
(21) Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come and follow me.
(22) But when the young man heard that saying, he went away sorrowful: for he had great possessions.
(23) Then said Jesus unto his disciples, Verily I say unto you, That a rich man shall hardly enter into the kingdom of heaven.
(24) And again I say unto you, It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God.
*Paul*
Jesus loves you
Wizanda, would you mind explaining to me how you interpret these verses to say you can lose your salvation.
Mat 13:22-23
(22) He also that received seed among the thorns is he that heareth the word; and the care of this world, and the deceitfulness of riches, choke the word, and he becometh unfruitful.
(23) But he that received seed into the good ground is he that heareth the word, and understandeth it; which also beareth fruit, and bringeth forth, some an hundredfold, some sixty, some thirty.
Luk 6:24-36
(24) But woe unto you that are rich! for ye have received your consolation.
(25) Woe unto you that are full! for ye shall hunger. Woe unto you that laugh now! for ye shall mourn and weep.
(26) Woe unto you, when all men shall speak well of you! for so did their fathers to the false prophets.
(27) But I say unto you which hear, Love your enemies, do good to them which hate you,
(28) Bless them that curse you, and pray for them which despitefully use you.
(29) And unto him that smiteth thee on the one cheek offer also the other; and him that taketh away thy cloke forbid not to take thy coat also.
(30) Give to every man that asketh of thee; and of him that taketh away thy goods ask them not again.
(31) And as ye would that men should do to you, do ye also to them likewise.
(32) For if ye love them which love you, what Grace (thank) have ye? for sinners also love those that love them.
(33) And if ye do good to them which do good to you, what Grace (thank) have ye? for sinners also do even the same.
(34) And if ye lend to them of whom ye hope to receive, what Grace (thank) have ye? for sinners also lend to sinners, to receive as much again.
(35) But love ye your enemies, and do good, and lend, hoping for nothing again; and your reward shall be great, and ye shall be the children of the Highest: for he is Gracious (kind) unto the unthankful and to the evil.
(36) Be ye therefore merciful, as your Father also is merciful.
James the Persian
Dreptcredincios Crestin
I think that you are probably thinking of verses such as the admonition that we must persevere to the end and the like, right? If so, then you're not actually describing a position of people 'losing' their salvation at all (though it may seem so to someone who believes in OSAS). I don't think that you can lose salvation, because you do not have it to lose so long as you are in this life - that of course means that I believe OSAS and the idea of any assurance of salvation in this life to be false (and dangerous, to be honest). I'd be interested to see someone use verses to suggest that you can lose salvation, though, because I had no idea such people existed - I always thought that the only argument was over when one attained salvation, not whether one could lose it.
James
Mat 16:24-27
(24) Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross (infinity), and follow me.
(25) For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: and whosoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it.
(26) For what is a man profited, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul? or what shall a man give in exchange for his soul?
(27) For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works.
Luk 21:34
(34) And take heed to yourselves, lest at any time your hearts be overcharged with surfeiting, and drunkenness, and cares of this life, and so that day come upon you unawares.
(24) Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross (infinity), and follow me.
(25) For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: and whosoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it.
(26) For what is a man profited, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul? or what shall a man give in exchange for his soul?
(27) For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works.
Luk 21:34
(34) And take heed to yourselves, lest at any time your hearts be overcharged with surfeiting, and drunkenness, and cares of this life, and so that day come upon you unawares.
For YOU have need of endurance, in order that, after YOU have done the will of God, YOU may receive the [fulfillment of the] promise. hebrews 10;36
(Matthew 24:13) But he that has endured to the end is the one that will be saved.
(James 1:12) Happy is the man that keeps on enduring trial, because on becoming approved he will receive the crown of life, which Jehovah promised to those who continue loving him......................... so what happens if we dont endure and we dont continue ? if a person becomes an apostate he would bring speedy destruction on himself.
However, there also came to be false prophets among the people, as there will also be false teachers among YOU. These very ones will quietly bring in destructive sects and will disown even the owner that bought them, bringing speedy destruction upon themselves. 2 Furthermore, many will follow their acts of loose conduct, and on account of these the way of the truth will be spoken of abusively. 3 Also, with covetousness they will exploit YOU with counterfeit words. But as for them, the judgment from of old is not moving slowly, and the destruction of them is not slumbering.2 PETER 2;1-3
(Matthew 24:13) But he that has endured to the end is the one that will be saved.
(James 1:12) Happy is the man that keeps on enduring trial, because on becoming approved he will receive the crown of life, which Jehovah promised to those who continue loving him......................... so what happens if we dont endure and we dont continue ? if a person becomes an apostate he would bring speedy destruction on himself.
However, there also came to be false prophets among the people, as there will also be false teachers among YOU. These very ones will quietly bring in destructive sects and will disown even the owner that bought them, bringing speedy destruction upon themselves. 2 Furthermore, many will follow their acts of loose conduct, and on account of these the way of the truth will be spoken of abusively. 3 Also, with covetousness they will exploit YOU with counterfeit words. But as for them, the judgment from of old is not moving slowly, and the destruction of them is not slumbering.2 PETER 2;1-3
athanasius
Well-Known Member
There are over 80 verse in the bible that say a Christian can loose his salvation. Try this. This is one side of a debate that a Catholic apologis(Jimmy akin) had with a Baptist apologist(James white). He(Akin) list a whole bunch of scriptures that show this possibility of loosing your salvation and clearly demonstrates the historic Catholic view.
http://www.cin.org/users/james/files/loss.htm
And here is on specifically on Romans 5:1
http://www.cin.org/users/james/questions/q071.htm
enjoy!
JayHawes
Active Member
Here in America the argument now is that we can actually loose our salvation. Of course i dont beleive this, and they have many scriptures they use. I will not list them, i want someone else to.
1) What is OSAS?
2) The Apostle John taught that we should be assured of our salvation:
1jo 5:13
These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.
JayHawes
Active Member
Those are nice scriptures you are quoting. THey are amazing teachings of Jesus. However if you dont explain to us how you interpret them, it is as yet, saying nothing.
JayHawes
Active Member
In what way does this teach that man can loose their salvation? To me it doesn't. Becuase although we run a race, Jesus said that he will keep us, and that no one can take us out of his hand. Jesus said he was giving us an eternal salvation, one that never ends. If he gives us this salvation, and then we depart, we never really recieved it in the first place. So my point is this, an Apostate was never saved in the first place.
Heb 5:9 -And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation...
Joh 10:28 -And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.
If anyone is actually saved they are sheep, and if one wanders off from the race of life, Jesus said he will leave his whole flock and go and find that one sheep, and bring him back. He looses none, no, not one.
Mt 18:11,12
For the Son of man is come to save that which was lost. How think ye? if a man have an hundred sheep, and one of them be gone astray, doth he not leave the ninety and nine, and goeth into the mountains, and seeketh that which is gone astray?
Polaris
Active Member
Concerning salvation from physical death... you are right, we cannot lose our salvation. Through the grace of Jesus Christ all of us will overcome physical death and be resurrected.
Concerning salvation from spiritual death or sin... I would argue that for the most part we don't ever secure our salvation until the final judgement. In order to overcome sin we must be baptised and repent of our sins. As we continue to sin, we continue the need to repent and if we fail to do so we remain in sin and will be judged accordingly.
Mat 19:17
(17) And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.
Mat 7:21-23
(21) Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
(22) Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
(23) And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
Luk 13:24-28
(24) Strive to enter in at the strait gate: for many, I say unto you, will seek to enter in, and shall not be able.
(25) When once the master of the house is risen up, and hath shut to the door, and ye begin to stand without, and to knock at the door, saying, Lord, Lord, open unto us; and he shall answer and say unto you, I know you not whence ye are:
(26) Then shall ye begin to say, We have eaten and drunk in thy presence, and thou hast taught in our streets.
(27) But he shall say, I tell you, I know you not whence ye are; depart from me, all ye workers of iniquity.
(28) There shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth, when ye shall see Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, and all the prophets, in the kingdom of God, and you yourselves thrust out.
James the Persian
Dreptcredincios Crestin
Once Saved Always Saved, a relatively modern protestant belief that once you acept Christ you are saved and nothing can change that.
There's an awful lot more to slavation than simply eternal life. All have that, whether they are destined for heaven or hell. That is what Christ achieved when He defeated death at the Resurrection. We should have an assurance of that, no doubt, but I can only see the idea that we are saved no matter what, just because we 'accepted Christ' at some point i nthis life as dangerous - it simply renders the effort to live a God pleasing life utterly poiintless.
I assume from what you've written (though correct me if I'm wrong), that that is the sort of view you hold to (that you can be certain that you will be with the Lord in heaven whilst still in this life), so what exactly do you make of all the many verses that state that we must persevere to the end? OSAS, however you may wish to name it, is irreconcilable with Scripture.
James
Mat 10:22
(22) And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake (Yeshua!): but he that endureth to the end shall be saved.
Mar 9:41
(41) For whosoever shall give you a cup of water to drink in my name, because ye belong to Christ, verily I say unto you, he shall not lose his reward.
Luk 8:14
(14) And that which fell among thorns are they, which, when they have heard, go forth, and are choked with cares and riches and pleasures of this life, and bring no fruit to perfection.
Luk 21:34
(34) And take heed to yourselves, lest at any time your hearts be overcharged with surfeiting, and drunkenness, and cares of this life, and so that day come upon you unawares.
(22) And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake (Yeshua!): but he that endureth to the end shall be saved.
Mar 9:41
(41) For whosoever shall give you a cup of water to drink in my name, because ye belong to Christ, verily I say unto you, he shall not lose his reward.
Luk 8:14
(14) And that which fell among thorns are they, which, when they have heard, go forth, and are choked with cares and riches and pleasures of this life, and bring no fruit to perfection.
Luk 21:34
(34) And take heed to yourselves, lest at any time your hearts be overcharged with surfeiting, and drunkenness, and cares of this life, and so that day come upon you unawares.
JayHawes
Active Member
We will all be judged but that doesn't mean we loose our salvation. Paul taught that all our works will be judged, yet we will not suffer hellfire (becuase we loose our salvation).
1co 3:15If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.
JayHawes
Active Member
Our goal in life is to please God, whether we love our family, or help change the world, in all we do we should try to please God. Our reason for doing good should not be to get to ehaven, but to worship God. We should run the race, becuase if we dont finsh we'll be left, and we'll suffer. I'll asnwer in better detail another time....it's late.
The last point is the word eggizō which Paul uses?....
Ego I-Mee John uses as if Christ said it?...
Polaris
Active Member
Again that depends on what you mean by salvation. If the judgement doesn't significantly affect our status in the hereafter what purpose does it serve?
Actually the "yet so as by fire" indicates that those who do unrighteously without repenting will indeed suffer hellfire. They will suffer until justice has been met and then they "shall be saved" (ie they will receive some degree of heavenly glory). The "he shall suffer loss" is yet further evidence in support the LDS belief that there are differing degrees of salvation.
This passage also provide evidence in support of the belief that the unrighteous will not be confined to hell for eternity. God's true mercy is shown here tha