Eternal Salvation

[Polaris]

We will all be judged but that doesn't mean we loose our salvation.

Again that depends on what you mean by salvation. If the judgement doesn't significantly affect our status in the hereafter what purpose does it serve?

Paul taught that all our works will be judged, yet we will not suffer hellfire (becuase we loose our salvation).

1co 3:15If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.

Actually the "yet so as by fire" indicates that those who do unrighteously without repenting will indeed suffer hellfire. They will suffer until justice has been met and then they "shall be saved" (ie they will receive some degree of heavenly glory). The "he shall suffer loss" is yet further evidence in support the LDS belief that there are differing degrees of salvation.

This passage also provides evidence in support of the belief that the unrighteous will not be confined to hell for eternity. God's true mercy is shown here that even the wicked will be saved "yet so as by fire" (ie after they have paid the demands of justice).

 

[Polaris]

Paul taught that all our works will be judged, yet we will not suffer hellfire.

Let me get this straight. So you believe that a "saved" Christian (one who "professes" Christ) is from that point unconditionally saved though he may commit adultery and abuse his wife and kids. While on the other hand a Muslim who lives a good and decent life, loves his family, does the very best he knows how, will spend eternity in hell because he didn't choose the true religion. Do you not see the ridiculousness of your position?

If you believe that's what the bible teaches than you severely misunderstand the bible.

 

[JayHawes]

Again that depends on what you mean by salvation. If the judgement doesn't significantly affect our status in the hereafter what purpose does it serve?



Actually the "yet so as by fire" indicates that those who do unrighteously without repenting will indeed suffer hellfire. They will suffer until justice has been met and then they "shall be saved" (ie they will receive some degree of heavenly glory). The "he shall suffer loss" is yet further evidence in support the LDS belief that there are differing degrees of salvation.

This passage also provide evidence in support of the belief that the unrighteous will not be confined to hell for eternity. God's true mercy is shown here tha

The Fire that is spoken of is not hellfire (read in context and actually study it), but that fire that shall burn man's work to see if it is worth anything in other words represents judgement.

 

[JayHawes]

Let me get this straight. So you believe that a "saved" Christian (one who "professes" Christ) is from that point unconditionally saved though he may commit adultery and abuse his wife and kids. While on the other hand a Muslim who lives a good and decent life, loves his family, does the very best he knows how, will spend eternity in hell because he didn't choose the true religion. Do you not see the ridiculousness of your position?

If you believe that's what the bible teaches than you severely misunderstand the bible.

A true Christian should not willingly commit adultery and especially not abuse his wife and kids. THe bible many times tells Christians not to do those things just becuase we are eternally forgiven. And stop trying to make it seems as though the Muslim hismelf is free of any sin....


Ro 6:14For sin will not have dominion over you. For you are not under law, but under grace.

Ro 6:15What then? Will we sin, because we are not under law, but under grace? Certainly not!

A Christian is called to live a good life, not to sin. We are etenrally forgiven...and i understand the bible quite well, the Holy Spirit guides me.

 

[Ringer]

I will agree with JH and that we cannot lose our salvation. I also believe that many feel that this is a dangerous proposition to teach because people may feel that if we cannot lose our eternal reward, what will prevent people from sinning and living a life contrary to biblical principles? Surely, these people don't deserve heaven. What if you entered into a relationship with Jesus and asked him to be your Savior and sometime in the future denounce His name and tell proclaim you no longer want any part of Him? Well, the good news is that we are not just holding onto God's hand when we enter into a relationship with him; He is also holding on to ours.

Romans 8:38
For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons,neither the present nor the future, nor any powers, 39neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

As far as accepting the gift of salvation and then going out to lead a sinful life, I would have to seriously question whether that person has really accepted Jesus as their savior and has indeed entered a relationship with Him.

1 Corinthians 6:9-11
9Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders 10nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. 11And that is what some of you were. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.

The verse does not state that these types of sinners exempt from entering the kingdom of God. As a saved sinner, there are things in that list that I struggle with. But when I do sin I feel a conviction that I believe only those who are walking in a close relationship with God will feel. If you are able to sin freely and feel no remorse or conviction for your actions, I would seriously doubt whether you are in an obedient relationship with God.

 

[slabbey06]

When one has put their faith in Christ alone for salvation, they cannot lose that salvation. Salvation is not of works, so that no man can boast (Ephesians 2). If you can do something to lose your salvation after you have trusted in Christ, then your salvation is based upon works and not upon the finished work of Christ and the free gift He offers. I believe that the passages of scripture that some interpret as showing you can lose your salvation have been taken out of context. I have put my faith in Christ, therefore I am not my own because I have been bought with a price (I Cor. 6:19-20). Someday I will stand before my Lord and give an account to Him on how well I served Him. Will I hear Him say, "Well done," or "Why didn't you live in light of eternity?" Read I Cor. 3:10-15 and 2 Cor. 5:6-10. My position is secure, however, I do believe Christ will reward those believers who served Him faithfully on earth in a special way. A really good book on this that describes it a whole lot better than I just did is The Believer's Payday by Dr. Paul Benware. You can find it at www.christianbook.com if you're interested.

 

[athanasius]

Eternal Security ???? Once saved always saved???????????? Who invented these concepts and lies? Certainly wasn't Christ or St. Paul or St. Peter at that much. This is a late doctrine invented the protestant reformers/revolters!

If yiou really want to reada good book on why you can fall from grace and loose your salvation try reading Jimmy Akins book "the Salvation Controversy".

 

[Katzpur]

A true Christian should not willingly commit adultery and especially not abuse his wife and kids. The bible many times tells Christians not to do those things just becuase we are eternally forgiven.

We are only eternally forgiven if we eternally repent. Do you honestly believe that a Christian who commits adultery and abuses his wife and kids will be "eternally forgiven" if he makes no effort to repent? How on earth could a just God say, "It doesn't matter. He's professed Christ."?

A Christian is called to live a good life, not to sin. We are etenrally forgiven...and i understand the bible quite well, the Holy Spirit guides me.

Yes, a Christian is called to live a good life, but not all Christians do that which they are called to do. Are you saying that if a person is a good Christian, it follows that he will live a good life? If you are, your argument is cyclical because he is still proven to be a Christian by the way in which he lives his life.

 

[JayHawes]

We are only eternally forgiven if we eternally repent. Do you honestly believe that a Christian who commits adultery and abuses his wife and kids will be "eternally forgiven" if he makes no effort to repent? How on earth could a just God say, "It doesn't matter. He's professed Christ."?

Yes, a Christian is called to live a good life, but not all Christians do that which they are called to do. Are you saying that if a person is a good Christian, it follows that he will live a good life? If you are, your argument is cyclical because he is still proven to be a Christian by the way in which he lives his life.

1) A Christian would repeant. Stop using "what if" scenarios, they are not accurate.

2) There's a difference between a christian and someone who claims to be Christian.

 

[JayHawes]

Eternal Security ???? Once saved always saved???????????? Who invented these concepts and lies? Certainly wasn't Christ or St. Paul or St. Peter at that much. This is a late doctrine invented the protestant reformers/revolters!

If yiou really want to reada good book on why you can fall from grace and loose your salvation try reading Jimmy Akins book "the Salvation Controversy".

We cannot fall from Grace. It is only people who read out of context who teach such things....but please....post your proof here.

 

[Bishka]

We cannot fall from Grace. It is only people who read out of context who teach such things....but please....post your proof here.

So if you get saved and then sin, are you not saved anymore? How is this 'once saved, always saved' work then? Were they never really saved in the first place?

 

[JayHawes]

So if you get saved and then sin, are you not saved anymore? How is this 'once saved, always saved' work then? Were they never really saved in the first place?

First we need to understand why Jesus died on the cross. Jesus died so that men may be purged and forgiven of all sins (Acts 13:37-39, Hebrews 1:3). He died and forgave us and saved us, because we could not live good enough to save ourselves anyway. Now having said that. How then can we loose our salvation when we do wrong? Number 1, Jesus has died for it already and number 2, we did not gain our salvation by not doing wrong in the first place.

Once Saved Always saved is the belief that once we are saved:"..that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come, nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord" Romans 8:38,39

We being saved, will not continue to live in (and practice) sin:

Ro 6:1 What will we say then? Will we continue in sin, that grace may abound?Ro 6:2 Certainly not! We who died to sin, how could we live in it any longer?

God calls us to get our lifes right, and we do this through the power of God. There is nothing that is able to pluck us out of the hand of God (John 10:29), not even ourselves, God is able to keep us (Jude 1:24, and he hates divorce.

Salvation is like true marriage. Jesus, being God is married to the Saints. And although we may do him wrong and sin, he will never divorce us becuase he made a pledge to keep us. If we really love him, although we do wrong, we will try to do right.

 

[Bishka]

And although we may do him wrong and sin, he will never divorce us becuase he made a pledge to keep us. If we really love him, although we do wrong, we will try to do right.

So if someone kills in Jesus' name and does many a horrible thing that person is still saved? He may have made a pledge to keep us, but by sinning we have not kept Him.

 

[JayHawes]

The Apostle Paul was a radical Jew. He thought he was justifed is killing the Christian by use of the Jewish law. Jesus bursted his bubble when he appeared to him and he opened his eyes. Paul then was able to tell the people of God to "Study to show thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth" 2 timothy 2:15. If a Christian heeds this great advice they will realise that Jesus never told anyone to kill in his name, any such teaching is unbiblical, becuase Jesus taught Peace, not killing, and not murder.

And yes, even a murderer can be saved. Christian are born again sinners, into sainthood.
_________________
1co 6:9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,

1co 6:10Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.

1co 6:11And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God
_____________________
Everyone has done wrong. But the death of Jesus is able to cover and forgive all sins, even when we cannot find it in ourselves to forgive.

Yes it is true, we may not keep him (in mind). But it's not up to us to keep ourselves saved, he keeps us. That's why the bible says we are in his hands, not he in ours. Our works should be more good than bad. If it is more bad that's a sign that someone may not be saved. Anyone who posses Christ will produce good fruit.

 

[slabbey06]

So if someone kills in Jesus' name and does many a horrible thing that person is still saved? He may have made a pledge to keep us, but by sinning we have not kept Him.

This is a great question. Basically it sounds to me like you're asking, "So if you can't lose your salvation, what's to keep someone from doing whatever they feel like no matter who it hurts or if it's wrong?" It sounds like there's no consequences for actions anymore. How is that fair? Well, here's what I believe based upon my study of Scripture....
I am a sinner that has been saved by grace through faith in Christ alone. Just as there was nothing I could do or not do to earn my salvation in the first place, there is nothing I can do or not do to keep it. From start to finish, my eternal security rests in the character of God. And He has said "I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one can snatch them out of my hand." (John 10:28) Now, this does not mean that I believe I can do whatever I want now and that there are no consequences for my actions. I believe there are SIGNIFICANT consequences, both in this life and when I stand before my King and have to give an account for my faithfulness to Him, but I firmly do not believe that those consequences involve my eternal security.

" By the grace God has given me, I laid a foundation as an expert builder, and someone else is building on it. But each one should be careful how he builds. 11For no one can lay any foundation other than the one already laid, which is Jesus Christ. 12If any man builds on this foundation using gold, silver, costly stones, wood, hay or straw, 13his work will be shown for what it is, because the Day will bring it to light. It will be revealed with fire, and the fire will test the quality of each man's work. 14If what he has built survives, he will receive his reward. 15If it is burned up, he will suffer loss; he himself will be saved, but only as one escaping through the flames." 1 Cor. 3:10-15
For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, that each one may receive what is due him for the things done while in the body, whether good or bad. 2 Cor. 5:10

As far as those who kill in the name of Jesus and do many other horrible things. I would question whether that person has truly put their faith in Christ or not. But the real issue isn't our actions because the "little" sins we commit each day would be enough to make us lose our salvation if it depended upon us.
Wow that got long...sorry

 

[athanasius]

We cannot fall from Grace. It is only people who read out of context who teach such things....but please....post your proof here.

What say you and me do a private one on one debate on this topic eh? If your interested shoot me a PM

I have over 60 verse in the bible that show that a saved Christian can fall from grace and loose his salvation. If he repents, God will take him back but he can still fall as evidenced by Jesus himself and St. Paul. Thank God Jesus gave us the sacrament of confession.:clap

Let me know and I'll set a private one up.

 

[Free4all]

I assume from what you've written (though correct me if I'm wrong), that that is the sort of view you hold to (that you can be certain that you will be with the Lord in heaven whilst still in this life), so what exactly do you make of all the many verses that state that we must persevere to the end? OSAS, however you may wish to name it, is irreconcilable with Scripture.

"must perservere unto the end" these verses apply to people during the tribulation, it's a different dispensation. The dispensation we are in now is "saved by Grace thru faith plus nothing", during the tribulation it will be "saved by faith and works" exactly like the old testament jews. The transition date is the Rapture.