EU: It's not going well, let's limit free speech

[suncowiam]

Exactly, Warren knew where here efforts would end up and went there anyways....
The sad fact is the Ms. King's letter was a genuine "nothing burger".

Her action was a speech...

Funny how you defend it in some cases and don't in other.

 

[Estro Felino]

In what way do you feel the EU is "weakening our own laws and economy by compromise"?

I don't understand why you defend this criminal organization called EU all the time. Besides, I remind you that your country, the United Kingdom was even wealthier and more prosperous than it is now, before joining the EU: So leaving the EU has no negative consequence, although the MEPs say the opposite; there must be a reason why the EU Bureaucrats intimidated, threatened, and blackmailed the British government for months, trying to dissuade it from leaving the Union.
Our countries have definitely lost their sovereignty, as for labor legislation, fiscal matters, monetary policy. The policies of the EU literally impoverished my country which used to be the 6th largest economy in the world once. Now it's devastated by unemployment, crisis of the big and small entrepreneurship, loss of competitiveness thanks to the Chinese, massive immigration from Africa.

Trust me: the EU is a criminal plan. I have a law degree...so I studied Macroeconomics thoroughly and I know how these things work in detail.
It seems that you are worried about the great economic losses of the so called European bankers. Yes...they will lose lots of money...but...they'll survive.

I hope you are right, I too studied Economics btw. I am far from convinced this will turn out well.
There was a lot wrong with the EU but an awful lot right with it too. To quote my mum, "We've tipped the baby out with the bath water"
I would feel happier if I felt that the UK politicians doing the negotiations were competent.

Unfortunately, you are right, but this is partly due to the fact that the EU bureaucrats are playing dirty, because they are afraid of losing their interests. The EU cannot work, if it was created with the only purpose to make a particular financial élite wealthier and wealthier at the countries' expenses.
Once we get rid of this EU, we can create another Union, based upon the absolute sovereignty of the member states, economic cooperation, free trade. But nothing else.
As for immigration, the UK has the right to control its borders, because it is a tiny island with a huge population.

 

[YmirGF]

Her action was a speech...

Funny how you defend it in some cases and don't in other.

Context is usually an important factor. Warren was merely grandstanding...

 

[suncowiam]

Context is usually an important factor. Warren was merely grandstanding...

Even then, it was still a speech.

I'm not arguing the content or her intent. That's besides the point. She has every right to her speech.

Just like Milo's intent was not of a serious conversation but to provoke. He still had right to free speech and if you recall, I defended it regardless of his political agenda.

 

[YmirGF]

Even then, it was still a speech.

I'm not arguing the content or her intent. That's besides the point. She has every right to her speech.

Just like Milo's intent was not of a serious conversation but to provoke. He still had right to free speech and if you recall, I defended it regardless of his political agenda.

Again, context is king. Warren, who isn't the sharpest tack in the box, knew what she was doing would lead to censure. She did so anyways. In effect, she cannot flout the rules to make her point. Just as Milo cannot...

 

[Jumi]

In what way do you feel the EU is "weakening our own laws and economy by compromise"?

We had a system that worked for us as a small country, but we have had to sacrifice our economic strategy and viability for the EU. We joined in the mid 90s so I remember well what was before and what was after. I especially remember weakening our educational standards, which gave you Nokia phones for example, to fit with countries with worse systems. It hit higher education harder. Us being on top of primary school education is surely becoming a thing of the past too.

 

[suncowiam]

Again, context is king. Warren, who isn't the sharpest tack in the box, knew what she was doing would lead to censure. She did so anyways. In effect, she cannot flout the rules to make her point. Just as Milo cannot...

Free speech is a very simple concept. It means one can speak about any topic without being suppressed. It is not free speech if one allows rules to dictate what can be said or not.

We have a catch 22 issue here. The OP is suggesting legislation that can censor racist and bigoted speech. You and I disagree with this, right?

So you're saying if some rule was already passed to legalize censorship, then we're beyond the point of debate? That censorship is now justified due to a previous decision? How does this make sense? That is the "context" you are specyfing.

 

[Altfish]

Again, context is king. Warren, who isn't the sharpest tack in the box, knew what she was doing would lead to censure. She did so anyways. In effect, she cannot flout the rules to make her point. Just as Milo cannot...

I can't think of a GOP senator who is brighter than Warren

 

[Altfish]

I don't understand why you defend this criminal organization called EU all the time. Besides, I remind you that your country, the United Kingdom was even wealthier and more prosperous than it is now, before joining the EU: So leaving the EU has no negative consequence, although the MEPs say the opposite; there must be a reason why the EU Bureaucrats intimidated, threatened, and blackmailed the British government for months, trying to dissuade it from leaving the Union.
Our countries have definitely lost their sovereignty, as for labor legislation, fiscal matters, monetary policy. The policies of the EU literally impoverished my country which used to be the 6th largest economy in the world once. Now it's devastated by unemployment, crisis of the big and small entrepreneurship, loss of competitiveness thanks to the Chinese, massive immigration from Africa.

Trust me: the EU is a criminal plan. I have a law degree...so I studied Macroeconomics thoroughly and I know how these things work in detail.
It seems that you are worried about the great economic losses of the so called European bankers. Yes...they will lose lots of money...but don't worry...they'll survive.

I hope you are right, I too studied Economics btw. I am far from convinced this will turn out well.
There was a lot wrong with the EU but an awful lot right with it too. To quote my mum, "We've tipped the baby out with the bath water"
I would feel happier if I felt that the UK politicians doing the negotiations were competent.

 

[Father Heathen]

As far as a nazi administration like extremism is the constitution of some countries whose emigrant citizens crave to found ,establish and self determine this in Europe by taking advantage of human rights laws; education and open debate are just utopic fantasies.

I apologize, but I didn't understand what you were trying to convey.

 

[Notanumber]

I would feel happier if I felt that the UK politicians doing the negotiations were competent.

I would fee happier if they got some support from the remainers instead of all this negativity.

Heseltine is the latest one to throw his rattle out of the pram.

Tory peer Michael Heseltine to rebel on Brexit bill

 

[Altfish]

I would fee happier if they got some support from the remainers instead of all this negativity.

Heseltine is the latest one to throw his rattle out of the pram.

Tory peer Michael Heseltine to rebel on Brexit bill

I never expected that after a 52-48 victory; imagine if it had gone the other way. Farage, Johnson, etc. would be screaming for a second referendum.

The Remainers would give more backing if they could see some concessions, but Brexit means hard brexit is the governments attitude and a lot of people are fearful

 

[Notanumber]

I never expected that after a 52-48 victory; imagine if it had gone the other way. Farage, Johnson, etc. would be screaming for a second referendum.

The Remainers would give more backing if they could see some concessions, but Brexit means hard brexit is the governments attitude and a lot of people are fearful

If we are going to be successful we have to go in hard, Theresa May is right about that.

We had the referendum, but because some do not like the result they want to make it the best of three.

David Cameron warned us that what were voting for was to leave the EU totally. He may have meant it as another threat, but we took him at his word and Parliament voted for the referendum on that basis.

 

[Altfish]

If we are going to be successful we have to go in hard, Theresa May is right about that.

We had the referendum, but because some do not like the result they want to make it the best of three.

David Cameron warned us that what were voting for was to leave the EU totally. He may have meant it as another threat, but we took him at his word and Parliament voted for the referendum on that basis.

If we were to have another referendum tomorrow, having watched the chaos currently going on I suspect the result would be different. But I'll never know.
I see you ignored my comment about the Brexiters would have demanded a second referendum. I don't for one moment think they'd have quietly gone away, which is what the are expecting the Remainers to do.

 

[HonestJoe]

A couple of things I think should be pointed out; First, speaking on the floor of a parliament isn’t a right, it’s a privilege (after all, none of us would be allowed to do it). Second, the right to free speech doesn’t include an obligation on anyone else to record or broadcast your speech.

MEPs remain entirely free to say whatever they want where-ever they want and they generally face the same consequences for doing so as anyone else. They actually gain some additional rights and plenty of additional practical freedoms that the rest of us don’t. Like all rights though, they come with associated responsibilities.

 

[Stevicus]

Censorship is the only logical response to positions like Nazism and the far right because, since these positions are inherently unreasonable, they're not willing to tolerate reasoned argument. It's exactly the position you've stated which has resulted in America's inability to rid itself of systematic racism. Allow racism, xenophobia etc into the societal mainstream and people will begin to think it's an acceptable position with as much logic behind it as the counterpoints.

There was a time when racism and xenophobia were the societal mainstream in America, and it was through open challenge, exposure, and debate which turned the tide of public opinion and brought about change in public policy. At the time, censorship of racism was not really an option, since it was those who were in favor of civil rights who were more likely to be censored or jailed for their views.

So, when you say that "people will begin to think it's an acceptable position," they've already been thinking that for generations upon generations. In this case, trying to censor anything is like trying to defuse a bomb which has already gone off.

Besides, the establishment has already legitimized and made acceptable certain aspects of nationalism by supporting national liberation movements in retaliation against racism and colonialism. We might say "it's a good thing that [insert name of former Western colony] is now independent and that they've thrown out the white European imperialists who have oppressed them." This might be a common view nowadays, but if we say that such a view is acceptable, then that gives a tacit endorsement of nationalism which is a bit difficult to put back in the bottle once it's been released.

The West has painted itself into an ideological corner by saying that nationalism is "good" for some parts of the world but "bad" for other parts of the world. That's why some people think it's an acceptable position - because it's already been endorsed and propagated in our society for the past several decades.

 

[Satans_Serrated_Edge]

I'm saying racists take positions which inherently don't tolerate reason or dissenting opinion.

The irony here is thick.

 

[Father Heathen]

Freedom of speech is being abused too by some religious communities in Europe with their religious sermons,as an example. Maybe it is good to limit freedom of speech if this will also aply to these communities.

Nah. As ugly as ignorance and bigotry is, allowing a government to control what you can and cannot think, feel, or say sets a dangerous precedent and plants a a little tyranny seedling.

 

[Shad]

Nah. As ugly as ignorance and bigotry is, allowing a government to control what you can and cannot think, feel, or say sets a dangerous precedent and plants a a little tyranny seedling.

America has a different system made in order to avoid tyranny while Europe follows a system in which the majority can and have dictated what is acceptable. Europe picks which minorities, and views, to defend and which to go after. Republic vs Democracy. Europe can easily slide into tyranny as they system of government enables it to happen as it is majority rule aka mob rule.

 

[BSM1]

I can't think of a GOP senator who is brighter than Warren

Neither can Warren. Just ask her.