Eucharist/Memorial/Last Supper. (Those who claim to be Christian only)

[Samael_Khan]

This question is for all those who claim to be Christian, who claim to follow the teachings of Jesus using the New Testament. So it includes, Catholics, Protestants, JW's etc. This excludes those who belong to religions that claim to supercede Christianity, such as muslims and Baha'i, as the premise for this conversation is that the Bible, especially the NT, isn't corrupted, as saying that it is corrupted derails the conversation and it becomes fruitless. (Dunno if this also causes Mormons to be excluded)

Anyway.

The questions are:

Does the Bible say that one must partake of the bread and wine, the Eucharist/Memorial/Last Supper, in order to be a Christian?

And does the Bible say that one must be a anointed, a child of God, and heir with Christ, in order to be a approved by God and thus a Christian?

Scriptures to note:

Matthew 26
Mark 14
Luke 22
John 13-17
Romans 8
John 6, especially verses 53-58
Revelation 7
Revelations 14
Revelation 19, especially first few verses
1 Corinthians 10

I might not have much say much because I am more interested in the various optional interpretations and the debate exploring them so that my understanding gets enhanced.

 

[exchemist]

This question is for all those who claim to be Christian, who claim to follow the teachings of Jesus using the New Testament. So it includes, Catholics, Protestants, JW's etc. This excludes those who belong to religions that claim to supercede Christianity, such as muslims and Baha'i, as the premise for this conversation is that the Bible, especially the NT, isn't corrupted, as saying that it is corrupted derails the conversation and it becomes fruitless. (Dunno if this also causes Mormons to be excluded)

Anyway.

The questions are:

Does the Bible say that one must partake of the bread and wine, the Eucharist/Memorial/Last Supper, in order to be a Christian?

And does the Bible say that one must be a anointed, a child of God, and heir with Christ, in order to be a approved by God and thus a Christian?

Scriptures to note:

Matthew 26
Mark 14
Luke 22
John 13-17
Romans 8
John 6, especially verses 53-58
Revelation 7
Revelations 14
Revelation 19, especially first few verses
1 Corinthians 10

I might not have much say much because I am more interested in the various optional interpretations and the debate exploring them so that my understanding gets enhanced.

You do not have to take communion (the Eucharist) in order to be considered a Christian. You do need to be baptised, however. Baptism is the defining ritual (sacrament) of Christianity.

By the way, what "the bible says" is often something people can argue about, given the various passages one can quote and how they can be interpreted. For this reason, most Christian denominations rely, not only on reading the bible for themselves, but also on a body of teaching derived from it.

 

[Raw020]

This question is for all those who claim to be Christian, who claim to follow the teachings of Jesus using the New Testament. So it includes, Catholics, Protestants, JW's etc. This excludes those who belong to religions that claim to supercede Christianity, such as muslims and Baha'i, as the premise for this conversation is that the Bible, especially the NT, isn't corrupted, as saying that it is corrupted derails the conversation and it becomes fruitless. (Dunno if this also causes Mormons to be excluded)

Anyway.

The questions are:

Does the Bible say that one must partake of the bread and wine, the Eucharist/Memorial/Last Supper, in order to be a Christian?

And does the Bible say that one must be a anointed, a child of God, and heir with Christ, in order to be a approved by God and thus a Christian?

Scriptures to note:

Matthew 26
Mark 14
Luke 22
John 13-17
Romans 8
John 6, especially verses 53-58
Revelation 7
Revelations 14
Revelation 19, especially first few verses
1 Corinthians 10

I might not have much say much because I am more interested in the various optional interpretations and the debate exploring them so that my understanding gets enhanced.

You don't need to be an anointed to be a Christian. Like the previous post stated, we just need baptism.

 

[Dawnofhope]

This excludes those who belong to religions that claim to supercede Christianity, such as muslims and Baha'i, as the premise for this conversation is that the Bible, especially the NT, isn't corrupted, as saying that it is corrupted derails the conversation and it becomes fruitless. (Dunno if this also causes Mormons to be excluded)

I respect your wishes and I’m not going to get involved in this discussion. However the Baha’is do not see Christian scriptures as ‘corrupted’. We have a very different approach to mainstream Islam. The term supersede has highly changed associations with the Christian persecution of the Jews. Baha’is don’t view themselves as a religion that supersedes other religions. I know of at least one Christian (and a Baha’i too) on this forum who has misrepresented the Baha’i Faith in this manner.

Anyway, if you want to have a ‘Christian only’ discussion no problem. Please, either don’t mention Islam and the Baha’i Faith or be more careful in how you present another’s faith. Thanks.

 

[Samael_Khan]

I respect your wishes and I’m not going to get involved in this discussion. However the Baha’is do not see Christian scriptures as ‘corrupted’. We have a very different approach to mainstream Islam. The term supersede has highly changed associations with the Christian persecution of the Jews. Baha’is don’t view themselves as a religion that supersedes other religions. I know of at least one Christian (and a Baha’i too) on this forum who has misrepresented the Baha’i Faith in this manner.

Anyway, if you want to have a ‘Christian only’ discussion no problem. Please, either don’t mention Islam and the Baha’i Faith or be more careful in how you present another’s faith. Thanks.

Thanks for the correction @adrian009.

I will have to scratch up on my understanding of the Baha'i faith. I have spoken to a Baha'i who does see the Bible as corrupted but they have also told me that different Baha'i's have different views on the matter, so I shouldn't have generalised.

No offense was intended. I just wanted to understand different opinions on the topic to sort out a certain point I am trying to figure out.

 

[Terry Sampson]

Does the Bible say that one must partake of the bread and wine, the Eucharist/Memorial/Last Supper, in order to be a Christian?

No. I say there are only four applicable scripture portions:

• Matthew 26.
  • 26 Now as they were eating, Jesus took bread, and after blessing it broke it and gave it to the disciples, and said, “Take, eat; this is my body.”
  • 27 And he took a cup, and when he had given thanks he gave it to them, saying, “Drink of it, all of you,
  • 28 for this is my blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many for the forgiveness of sins.
• Mark 14.
  • 22 And as they were eating, he took bread, and after blessing it broke it and gave it to them, and said, “Take; this is my body.”
  • 23 And he took a cup, and when he had given thanks he gave it to them, and they all drank of it.
  • 24 And he said to them, “This is my blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many.
• Luke 22.
  • 19 And he took bread, and when he had given thanks, he broke it and gave it to them, saying, “This is my body, which is given for you. Do this in remembrance of me.”
  • 20 And likewise the cup after they had eaten, saying, “This cup that is poured out for you is the new covenant in my blood.
• 1 Corinthians 11.
  • 23 For I received from the Lord what I also delivered to you, that the Lord Jesus on the night when he was betrayed took bread,
  • 24 and when he had given thanks, he broke it, and said, “This is my body, which is for you. Do this in remembrance of me.”
  • 25 In the same way also he took the cup, after supper, saying, “This cup is the new covenant in my blood. Do this, as often as you drink it, in remembrance of me.”
  • 26 For as often as you eat this bread and drink the cup, you proclaim the Lord's death until he comes.

Matthew, Mark, and Luke speak only of a one time event which took place during Jesus' celebration of the Passover with his disciples. Paul, in 1 Corinthians, tells us that the eating and drinking was a more than once event, proclaiming the Lord's death, as often as the early Christians did it, "until he comes." Nowhere in scripture is it said that the eating and drinking is the only way to "proclaim the Lord's death" nor that it is mandatory to eat and drink; it's only said that it was a communal event which occurred more than once.

And does the Bible say that one must be a anointed, a child of God, and heir with Christ, in order to be a approved by God and thus a Christian?

To be approved by God?

• Jeremiah 17.
  • 5 Thus says the Lord:
    Cursed are those who trust in mere mortals
    and make mere flesh their strength,
    whose hearts turn away from the Lord.
    6 They shall be like a shrub in the desert,
    and shall not see when relief comes.
    They shall live in the parched places of the wilderness,
    in an uninhabited salt land.
    7 Blessed are those who trust in the Lord,
    whose trust is the Lord.
    8 They shall be like a tree planted by water,
    sending out its roots by the stream.
    It shall not fear when heat comes,
    and its leaves shall stay green;
    in the year of drought it is not anxious,
    and it does not cease to bear fruit.

To be a Christian?

• Matthew 10:38. "Whoever does not take his cross and follow me is not worthy of me."
• Matthew 16:24. "Then Jesus told his disciples, 'If anyone would come after me, let him deny himself and take up his cross and follow me."
• Mark 8:34. "And calling the crowd to him with his disciples, he said to them, 'If anyone would come after me, let him deny himself and take up cross and follow me.' "
• Luke 9:23. "And he said to all, 'If anyone would come after me, let him deny himself and take up his cross daily and follow me.' "
• Luke 14:27. "Whoever does not bear his own cross and come after me cannot be my disciple."

How many false things can you or I believe and still "trust God" and/or "follow Jesus"?

 

[Samael_Khan]

No. I say there are only four applicable scripture portions:

• Matthew 26.
  • 26 Now as they were eating, Jesus took bread, and after blessing it broke it and gave it to the disciples, and said, “Take, eat; this is my body.”
  • 27 And he took a cup, and when he had given thanks he gave it to them, saying, “Drink of it, all of you,
  • 28 for this is my blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many for the forgiveness of sins.
• Mark 14.
  • 22 And as they were eating, he took bread, and after blessing it broke it and gave it to them, and said, “Take; this is my body.”
  • 23 And he took a cup, and when he had given thanks he gave it to them, and they all drank of it.
  • 24 And he said to them, “This is my blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many.
• Luke 22.
  • 19 And he took bread, and when he had given thanks, he broke it and gave it to them, saying, “This is my body, which is given for you. Do this in remembrance of me.”
  • 20 And likewise the cup after they had eaten, saying, “This cup that is poured out for you is the new covenant in my blood.
• 1 Corinthians 11.
  • 23 For I received from the Lord what I also delivered to you, that the Lord Jesus on the night when he was betrayed took bread,
  • 24 and when he had given thanks, he broke it, and said, “This is my body, which is for you. Do this in remembrance of me.”
  • 25 In the same way also he took the cup, after supper, saying, “This cup is the new covenant in my blood. Do this, as often as you drink it, in remembrance of me.”
  • 26 For as often as you eat this bread and drink the cup, you proclaim the Lord's death until he comes.

Matthew, Mark, and Luke speak only of a one time event which took place during Jesus' celebration of the Passover with his disciples. Paul, in 1 Corinthians, tells us that the eating and drinking was a more than once event, proclaiming the Lord's death, as often as the early Christians did it, "until he comes." Nowhere in scripture is it said that the eating and drinking is the only way to "proclaim the Lord's death" nor that it is mandatory to eat and drink; it's only said that it was a communal event which occurred more than once.

I was not expecting anyone to have come to this conclusion. It is something to think about.

Would you consider John 6, especially verses 52-54, to be linked to the Last Supper and people's repetition of it annually and necessary for salvation, or would you consider it as not relating to that or foreshadowing it?

John 6:52–54 (NIV): 52 Then the Jews began to argue sharply among themselves, “How can this man give us his flesh to eat?”
53 Jesus said to them, “Very truly I tell you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you have no life in you. 54 Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day.

To be approved by God?

• Jeremiah 17.
  • 5 Thus says the Lord:
    Cursed are those who trust in mere mortals
    and make mere flesh their strength,
    whose hearts turn away from the Lord.
    6 They shall be like a shrub in the desert,
    and shall not see when relief comes.
    They shall live in the parched places of the wilderness,
    in an uninhabited salt land.
    7 Blessed are those who trust in the Lord,
    whose trust is the Lord.
    8 They shall be like a tree planted by water,
    sending out its roots by the stream.
    It shall not fear when heat comes,
    and its leaves shall stay green;
    in the year of drought it is not anxious,
    and it does not cease to bear fruit.

To be a Christian?

• Matthew 10:38. "Whoever does not take his cross and follow me is not worthy of me."
• Matthew 16:24. "Then Jesus told his disciples, 'If anyone would come after me, let him deny himself and take up his cross and follow me."
• Mark 8:34. "And calling the crowd to him with his disciples, he said to them, 'If anyone would come after me, let him deny himself and take up cross and follow me.' "
• Luke 9:23. "And he said to all, 'If anyone would come after me, let him deny himself and take up his cross daily and follow me.' "
• Luke 14:27. "Whoever does not bear his own cross and come after me cannot be my disciple."

How many false things can you or I believe and still "trust God" and/or "follow Jesus"?

So, say you are Christian and approved by God, does that make a person a child of God and an heir with Christ?
Conversely, can one be approved by God and a Christian if God does not consider them a child of God and an heir with Christ?

I am referencing Romans 8:

Romans 8:12–17 (ESV): 12 So then, brothers, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live according to the flesh. 13 For if you live according to the flesh you will die, but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live. 14 For all who are led by the Spirit of God are sons of God. 15 For you did not receive the spirit of slavery to fall back into fear, but you have received the Spirit of adoption as sons, by whom we cry, “Abba! Father!” 16 The Spirit himself bears witness with our spirit that we are children of God, 17 and if children, then heirs—heirs of God and fellow heirs with Christ, provided we suffer with him in order that we may also be glorified with him.

 

[Kenny]

The questions are:

Does the Bible say that one must partake of the bread and wine, the Eucharist/Memorial/Last Supper, in order to be a Christian?

Actually, the last supper was Jesus Christ doing the Jewish Passover which, in the Christian view, it was a moment where he was declaring that he was the representation of the Passover.

It isn't the taking of the meal that makes one a believer that Jesus is the Messiah. (Most Jews have the passover meal and don't believe that Jesus is the Messiah - yet they still believe the Messiah is coming to reign as do those who believe that Jesus is the Messiah)

I think we need to remember that the word "Christian" was a name that was given by some non-believers who were categorizing those who believed in Jesus as the Messiah. In other words, that term came years after the actual resurrection of Jesus. (just for information sake).

So... you don't have to take the bread and wine to be a "Christian". One believes first and then the act of taking the bread and the wine, simply brings what happened 2000 years ago to the present as if the crucifixion is being reenacted before our eyes to remind us of the sacrifice that was made for us to be the righteousness of God.

And does the Bible say that one must be a anointed, a child of God, and heir with Christ, in order to be a approved by God and thus a Christian?

I'm not sure exactly what you are asking here.

When you believe in Jesus Christ as your personal Lord and Savior your are saved or approved of God in the sense that you become a co-heir with Christ (there is differences of viewpoint on water baptism although both schools of though get water baptized).

That doesn't mean that those who do good and pray aren't approved of God as depicted by Cornelius in Acts 10 when it was said that his prayers and alms had reached Heaven (approved) - he just wasn't a co-heir with Christ until he believed.

When you are in the body of Christ, by the blood that he shed, you are already anointed and a child of God. There is a subsequent additional anointing that comes when the power of the Holy Spirit, or the infilling baptism of the Spirit, comes in you and upon you as in Act 2. It is an additional "anointing" as there are other additional "anointings".

 

[Samael_Khan]

Actually, the last supper was Jesus Christ doing the Jewish Passover which, in the Christian view, it was a moment where he was declaring that he was the representation of the Passover.

Agreed

It isn't the taking of the meal that makes one a believer that Jesus is the Messiah. (Most Jews have the passover meal and don't believe that Jesus is the Messiah - yet they still believe the Messiah is coming to reign as do those who believe that Jesus is the Messiah).

Agreed. Being a believer happens before baptism because it is a result of a thought process. My question was related to whether it is mandatory or not for Christians to take part in the meal when seeing it as a representation of Christ. Is it the most important activity of a Christian's year? When Jesus said "Do this in remembrance of me" was he saying that all Christians must do this on an annual basis? If one doesn't do this then are they disobeying Christ?

I think we need to remember that the word "Christian" was a name that was given by some non-believers who were categorizing those who believed in Jesus as the Messiah. In other words, that term came years after the actual resurrection of Jesus. (just for information sake).

THIS is fascinating to me. The reason is that I always understood, based off of Acts 11:26 that the word "Christian" was given to Christians through Divine Inspiration.

In the New World Translation that I used to read the the end of Acts 11:26 says "it was first in Antioch that the disciples were by divine providence called Christians."

My NKJV says:

"Acts 11:26 (NKJV): 26 And when he had found him, he brought him to Antioch. So it was that for a whole year they assembled with the church and taught a great many people. And the disciples were first called Christians in Antioch."

"By divine providence" isn't mentioned in the NKJV and NIV. It changed my understanding of the text. Very shocking.

None of these Bible translations have that:

Acts 11:26 and when he found him, he brought him back to Antioch. So for a full year they met together with the church and taught large numbers of people. The disciples were first called Christians at Antioch.

So... you don't have to take the bread and wine to be a "Christian". One believes first and then the act of taking the bread and the wine, simply brings what happened 2000 years ago to the present as if the crucifixion is being reenacted before our eyes to remind us of the sacrifice that was made for us to be the righteousness of God.

I think I should actually rephrase my question. So the "ritual" acts as a reminder and does it affect the good standing of Christians in God's eyes?

I'm not sure exactly what you are asking here.

When you believe in Jesus Christ as your personal Lord and Savior your are saved or approved of God in the sense that you become a co-heir with Christ (there is differences of viewpoint on water baptism although both schools of though get water baptized).

That doesn't mean that those who do good and pray aren't approved of God as depicted by Cornelius in Acts 10 when it was said that his prayers and alms had reached Heaven (approved) - he just wasn't a co-heir with Christ until he believed.

When you are in the body of Christ, by the blood that he shed, you are already anointed and a child of God. There is a subsequent additional anointing that comes when the power of the Holy Spirit, or the infilling baptism of the Spirit, comes in you and upon you as in Act 2. It is an additional "anointing" as there are other additional "anointings".

This quote of yours:

"When you are in the body of Christ, by the blood that he shed, you are already anointed and a child of God. "

, is the answer to my question. I should actually replace my question with this statement of yours as it is clearer. But this is my general understanding as laid out in Romans 8.

 

[Kenny]

Agreed. Being a believer happens before baptism because it is a result of a thought process. My question was related to whether it is mandatory or not for Christians to take part in the meal when seeing it as a representation of Christ. Is it the most important activity of a Christian's year? When Jesus said "Do this in remembrance of me" was he saying that all Christians must do this on an annual basis? If one doesn't do this then are they disobeying Christ?

As you mentioned, there are "results" of a thought process (IMV).

I think the issue is more of a "Law" vs. "Spirit of Life / Grace /Love " issue. When one "must" do it, then love is no longer involved. If I "HAVE" to buy roses for my wife on our anniversary vs. I "WANT" to buy roses on our anniversary... it is the same act but the thought process is completely different.

So, as I view it, it is an important act because it helps renew my first love for Jesus. I don't do it because I have to do it but rather I want to do it.

Scripturally Jesus said "as often as you do this" which denotes more than just once a year. As a body of people, it might be significant to do it on a special day as it is "one bread" - one body. The first passover was in homes - maybe a few families in certain cases. So my position is that it can be done "as often" even in the homes of people. My wife and I do it almost daily.

There is no scripture that says "if you don't do it, you are a persona non-grata". What it does say that if you do it with a wrong heart -- there are consequences.

If one love Jesus and He is one's Lord and Savior, one would do it (if possible) just out of love -- so "I won't do it" may represent a heart issue. "I want to do it, but can't" is a good heart position... maybe there is no grape juice or wine, maybe there is no bread. God knows the heart.

THIS is fascinating to me. The reason is that I always understood, based off of Acts 11:26 that the word "Christian" was given to Christians through Divine Inspiration.

In the New World Translation that I used to read the the end of Acts 11:26 says "it was first in Antioch that the disciples were by divine providence called Christians."

My NKJV says:

"Acts 11:26 (NKJV): 26 And when he had found him, he brought him to Antioch. So it was that for a whole year they assembled with the church and taught a great many people. And the disciples were first called Christians in Antioch."

"By divine providence" isn't mentioned in the NKJV and NIV. It changed my understanding of the text. Very shocking.

None of these Bible translations have that:

Acts 11:26 and when he found him, he brought him back to Antioch. So for a full year they met together with the church and taught large numbers of people. The disciples were first called Christians at Antioch.

I could have been by inspiration of God. Won't deny that. I was simply saying that before that, they were still believers, just not called Christians. In today's society, you can call yourself a "Christian" and not really be following Christ.

I think I should actually rephrase my question. So the "ritual" acts as a reminder and does it affect the good standing of Christians in God's eyes?

Not in my understanding. When one is a believer, you are already in good standing as, "He is able to present us faultless with joy" before the throne of God. It isn't a "work-based" relationship, though there are good works, it is a love-based relationship in which "love covers a multitude of sins".

This quote of yours:

"When you are in the body of Christ, by the blood that he shed, you are already anointed and a child of God. "

, is the answer to my question. I should actually replace my question with this statement of yours as it is clearer. But this is my general understanding as laid out in Romans 8.

 

[Thief]

I might not have much say much because I am more interested in the various optional interpretations and the debate exploring them so that my understanding gets enhanced.

allow me.....

I went to catholic schools
almost became a priest
put in for position at a seminary....but someone else was holier
so....
here I am

as for the Last Supper ritual
a priest did say to me....it really is the body and blood of Jesus
it's a miracle...every time the mass is recited

but if you follow the Carpenter....and in some manner I do
that episode at the table was done as metaphor

if you partake of His life …..His parables and other saying
it is as bread and wine

it is life unto you
to be shared
as if bread and wine

 

[Samael_Khan]

As you mentioned, there are "results" of a thought process (IMV).

I think the issue is more of a "Law" vs. "Spirit of Life / Grace /Love " issue. When one "must" do it, then love is no longer involved. If I "HAVE" to buy roses for my wife on our anniversary vs. I "WANT" to buy roses on our anniversary... it is the same act but the thought process is completely different.

So, as I view it, it is an important act because it helps renew my first love for Jesus. I don't do it because I have to do it but rather I want to do it.

Scripturally Jesus said "as often as you do this" which denotes more than just once a year. As a body of people, it might be significant to do it on a special day as it is "one bread" - one body. The first passover was in homes - maybe a few families in certain cases. So my position is that it can be done "as often" even in the homes of people. My wife and I do it almost daily.

There is no scripture that says "if you don't do it, you are a persona non-grata". What it does say that if you do it with a wrong heart -- there are consequences.

If one love Jesus and He is one's Lord and Savior, one would do it (if possible) just out of love -- so "I won't do it" may represent a heart issue. "I want to do it, but can't" is a good heart position... maybe there is no grape juice or wine, maybe there is no bread. God knows the heart.

This makes sense, because the purpose of Christianity is having the law written on the heart. So everything you do shouldn't be because you are forced to or obligated to, but because you naturally want to do it.

Are there scriptures mentioning the consequences of doing it out of a wrong heart?

I could have been by inspiration of God. Won't deny that. I was simply saying that before that, they were still believers, just not called Christians. In today's society, you can call yourself a "Christian" and not really be following Christ.

Yeah, they were first known as "the Way". Indeed, the verse in most Bibles do present the option but now I know that it is an optional understanding, not a definite one.

Not in my understanding. When one is a believer, you are already in good standing as, "He is able to present us faultless with joy" before the throne of God. It isn't a "work-based" relationship, though there are good works, it is a love-based relationship in which "love covers a multitude of sins".

I always viewed the concept as the Law written on the heart and the works are naturally produced as a result of the faith, similar to what you mentioned at the beginning of your post.

 

[Samael_Khan]

allow me.....

I went to catholic schools
almost became a priest
put in for position at a seminary....but someone else was holier
so....
here I am

as for the Last Supper ritual
a priest did say to me....it really is the body and blood of Jesus
it's a miracle...every time the mass is recited

but if you follow the Carpenter....and in some manner I do
that episode at the table was done as metaphor

if you partake of His life …..His parables and other saying
it is as bread and wine

it is life unto you
to be shared
as if bread and wine

I remember Catholic School... I remember the literal interpretation of the Eucharist.

So his teachings are the bread and wine in your view?

 

[Thief]

I remember Catholic School... I remember the literal interpretation of the Eucharist.

So his teachings are the bread and wine in your view?

yeah

but in all fairness....
I have suffered a dream

I was sitting in congregation
something I have not done in many years
angels were busy with tankards......filling the goblets we held

the angel splashed a taste of the wine into my goblet
he then filled the goblet of the old woman next to me......almost to the brim

seems I am destined to my fair share

 

[Muffled]

I believe all one needs to do to be a born again Christian rather than just a nominal one is to receive Jesus as Lord and Savior.

John 6 is interesting. I believe it is more metaphoric than just the act of remembrance the other verses say it is. I believe because it is metaphoric that it is not a literal eating of flesh and blood but rather it is a matter of taking the Word of God (bread) inside and having it bring life and taking the Spirit of God (wine) inside as a guide. The Word and Spirit give life.

 

[Thief]

I think it noteworthy....
the Carpenter's ministry started with the same metaphor

it almost got Him killed right up front

 

[Muffled]

You do not have to take communion (the Eucharist) in order to be considered a Christian. You do need to be baptised, however. Baptism is the defining ritual (sacrament) of Christianity.

By the way, what "the bible says" is often something people can argue about, given the various passages one can quote and how they can be interpreted. For this reason, most Christian denominations rely, not only on reading the bible for themselves, but also on a body of teaching derived from it.

I do not believe one needs to be baptized to be a Christian but I do think Jesus will lead a person to baptism.

 

[Muffled]

I think it noteworthy....
the Carpenter's ministry started with the same metaphor

it almost got Him killed right up front

I believe a lot of people thought that He was speaking literally and that would be anathema to them.

 

[Thief]

I believe a lot of people thought that He was speaking literally and that would be anathema to them.

yep.....metaphor skips over many a brow

 

[Muffled]

allow me.....

I went to catholic schools
almost became a priest
put in for position at a seminary....but someone else was holier
so....
here I am

as for the Last Supper ritual
a priest did say to me....it really is the body and blood of Jesus
it's a miracle...every time the mass is recited

but if you follow the Carpenter....and in some manner I do
that episode at the table was done as metaphor

if you partake of His life …..His parables and other saying
it is as bread and wine

it is life unto you
to be shared
as if bread and wine

I believe I like the Passover metaphor for the actual celebration. He uses it to introduce the new covenant. In the old covenant it was Moses and the law and people rescued from the wickedness of the Egyptians and salvation from judgment by the blood on the lintels. In the new covenant it is the law written on the hearts by the Paraclete and the people of God rescued from a wicked world and salvation from judgment by the blood of Jesus on the cross.