Eucharist/Memorial/Last Supper. (Those who claim to be Christian only)

[Thief]

salvation from judgment by the blood of Jesus on the cross.

it was good up to that last piece

I do not believe Jesus saved anyone by dying
His death was the consequence of His ministry
He saw it coming

His salvation comes from the bread and wine
that metaphor

you can't live on a cross
you die there

when He said ...take up your cross and follow Me
that too was a metaphor

but we digress

 

[Katzpur]

This question is for all those who claim to be Christian, who claim to follow the teachings of Jesus using the New Testament. So it includes, Catholics, Protestants, JW's etc. This excludes those who belong to religions that claim to supercede Christianity, such as muslims and Baha'i, as the premise for this conversation is that the Bible, especially the NT, isn't corrupted, as saying that it is corrupted derails the conversation and it becomes fruitless. (Dunno if this also causes Mormons to be excluded)

Well, for starters, members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints do claim to be Christians, so I guess I am free to express my opinion. Before I do, though, it's worth noting that there are so many different translations of the Bible out there today that "corrupted" probably wasn't your best choice of words.

The questions are:

Does the Bible say that one must partake of the bread and wine, the Eucharist/Memorial/Last Supper, in order to be a Christian?

And does the Bible say that one must be a anointed, a child of God, and heir with Christ, in order to be a approved by God and thus a Christian?

In John 13:35, Jesus Christ named the one thing by which His disciples (aka "Christians") would be recognizable to mankind, and that was that they had love for one another. ("By this shall all men know that ye are my disciples, if ye have love one to another.")

One need not take any steps other than to acknowledge Jesus Christ to be the Savior and try to live as He instructed us to live to be considered a Christian -- at least in God's eyes. In the eyes of us human beings, one must apparently "qualify" by believing a certain set of prescribed doctrines and performing certain specific rituals. I'm not saying these things don't have value. They do, and I personally observe them. They're not, however, what it takes to be a bonafide follower of Jesus Christ in God's eyes.

 

[Kenny]

This makes sense, because the purpose of Christianity is having the law written on the heart. So everything you do shouldn't be because you are forced to or obligated to, but because you naturally want to do it.

Are there scriptures mentioning the consequences of doing it out of a wrong heart?

Sure:

1 Cor 11:
20 When you meet together, you are not really interested in the Lord’s Supper. 21 For some of you hurry to eat your own meal without sharing with others. As a result, some go hungry while others get drunk. 22 What? Don’t you have your own homes for eating and drinking? Or do you really want to disgrace God’s church and shame the poor? What am I supposed to say? Do you want me to praise you? Well, I certainly will not praise you for this!
23 For I pass on to you what I received from the Lord himself. On the night when he was betrayed, the Lord Jesus took some bread 24 and gave thanks to God for it. Then he broke it in pieces and said, “This is my body, which is given for you. Do this in remembrance of me.”25 In the same way, he took the cup of wine after supper, saying, “This cup is the new covenant between God and his people—an agreement confirmed with my blood. Do this in remembrance of me as often as you drink it.” 26 For every time you eat this bread and drink this cup, you are announcing the Lord’s death until he comes again.
27 So anyone who eats this bread or drinks this cup of the Lord unworthily is guilty of sinning against the body and blood of the Lord. 28 That is why you should examine yourself before eating the bread and drinking the cup. 29 For if you eat the bread or drink the cup without honoring the body of Christ, you are eating and drinking God’s judgment upon yourself. 30 That is why many of you are weak and sick and some have even died.
31 But if we would examine ourselves, we would not be judged by God in this way. 32 Yet when we are judged by the Lord, we are being disciplined so that we will not be condemned along with the world.
33 So, my dear brothers and sisters, when you gather for the Lord’s Supper, wait for each other. 34 If you are really hungry, eat at home so you won’t bring judgment upon yourselves when you meet together. I’ll give you instructions about the other matters after I arrive.

Yeah, they were first known as "the Way". Indeed, the verse in most Bibles do present the option but now I know that it is an optional understanding, not a definite one.

True... true..

I always viewed the concept as the Law written on the heart and the works are naturally produced as a result of the faith, similar to what you mentioned at the beginning of your post.

Yes. I remember when my wife and I first gave our lives to Jesus. Before we had made it a habit to go out on Friday nights and live it up -- drinking. Without having read anything in the Bible... we just naturally found ourselves not wanting to do it anymore. Wasn't a verbal law, it was God writing His law in our hearts. Or, I use to cuss all the time with no regrets... and after, I just didn't like to do it anymore. Not that I heard anything... just God writing on my heart.

 

[BilliardsBall]

This question is for all those who claim to be Christian, who claim to follow the teachings of Jesus using the New Testament. So it includes, Catholics, Protestants, JW's etc. This excludes those who belong to religions that claim to supercede Christianity, such as muslims and Baha'i, as the premise for this conversation is that the Bible, especially the NT, isn't corrupted, as saying that it is corrupted derails the conversation and it becomes fruitless. (Dunno if this also causes Mormons to be excluded)

Anyway.

The questions are:

Does the Bible say that one must partake of the bread and wine, the Eucharist/Memorial/Last Supper, in order to be a Christian?

And does the Bible say that one must be a anointed, a child of God, and heir with Christ, in order to be a approved by God and thus a Christian?

Scriptures to note:

Matthew 26
Mark 14
Luke 22
John 13-17
Romans 8
John 6, especially verses 53-58
Revelation 7
Revelations 14
Revelation 19, especially first few verses
1 Corinthians 10

I might not have much say much because I am more interested in the various optional interpretations and the debate exploring them so that my understanding gets enhanced.

"Eucharist" is a Roman term not used in the Bible. The bread and wine are symbolic only. Jews pray bread and wine prayers DAILY as they eat. The Last Supper is a betrothal of the church to Yeshua.

 

[Terry Sampson]

"Eucharist" is a Roman term not used in the Bible.

LOL!!
Get a Greek copy of Luke 22:19 and tell me what the fourth word of that verse is.

 

[Terry Sampson]

The bread and wine are symbolic only.

Right. And the words in the Bible are just symbols written on paper. But oddly enough, some folks find significant meaning and benefit in them. Even odder, some folks actually find significant meaning and benefit in consuming blessed bread and wine, thereby proclaiming the death of Jesus until he comes.

 

[Terry Sampson]

Jews pray bread and wine prayers DAILY as they eat.

And that is evidence for what? That Jews pray daily while their mouths are full?

The Last Supper is a betrothal of the church to Yeshua.

Ahhh! So you can take your ankle weights off.

 

[Samael_Khan]

Well, for starters, members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints do claim to be Christians, so I guess I am free to express my opinion. Before I do, though, it's worth noting that there are so many different translations of the Bible out there today that "corrupted" probably wasn't your best choice of words.

Cool. Then go ahead.

 

[Kenny]

Right. And the words in the Bible are just symbols written on paper. But oddly enough, some folks find significant meaning and benefit in them. Even odder, some folks actually find significant meaning and benefit in consuming blessed bread and wine, thereby proclaiming the death of Jesus until he comes.

And yet, when they ate the bread, he was still fully clothed, fully whole and fully there.

Maybe you are reading an Eastern thought with a Western mindset. A literalist in every sense of the word?

 

[Thief]

I believe I like the Passover metaphor for the actual celebration. He uses it to introduce the new covenant. In the old covenant it was Moses and the law and people rescued from the wickedness of the Egyptians and salvation from judgment by the blood on the lintels. In the new covenant it is the law written on the hearts by the Paraclete and the people of God rescued from a wicked world and salvation from judgment by the blood of Jesus on the cross.

yeah....but now take a look at the event as if you were at the table

the Passover was intended as remembrance of Moses

and the Carpenter spoke …..Do THIS in memory of ME

usurping the ceremony from tradition
THAT is NOT very Jewish

as a Jew......watching this happen
and then you partake.....

are you still a Jew?

 

[BilliardsBall]

LOL!!
Get a Greek copy of Luke 22:19 and tell me what the fourth word of that verse is.
View attachment 40582

Sorry, should have said "term" not "word" since the word AS SHOWN means "the giving of thanks" which I can do without eating--it's a Jewish blessing--not "the giving of my flesh and blood by priests to the laity".

 

[BilliardsBall]

Right. And the words in the Bible are just symbols written on paper. But oddly enough, some folks find significant meaning and benefit in them. Even odder, some folks actually find significant meaning and benefit in consuming blessed bread and wine, thereby proclaiming the death of Jesus until he comes.

It's hard for me to find blessing when the blessing comes from an elder whose doctrine is works-based. Salvation is literal, not symbolic, and comes from trusting Jesus IMHO and not sacraments.

I appreciate your zeal, and encourage you to go with the Bible (what Jesus taught/said) over what my elder or yours teaches is "straight from God to you".

 

[BilliardsBall]

And that is evidence for what? That Jews pray daily while their mouths are full?

Ahhh! So you can take your ankle weights off.

Huh?

The "eucharist" of the Bible is spoken prayer. There is no wafer, no priest-blessed wine or juice, no monstrance, basilica, pope, etc.

 

[Terry Sampson]

Maybe you are reading an Eastern thought with a Western mindset. A literalist in every sense of the word?

And maybe you lack sufficient understanding of what a symbol is?
There are things I take literally, and there are things I don't. I just don't happen to be an all-or-nothing kind of guy. For example,

• I don't believe that our Father created the universe ex nihilo;
  
• I do not believe that God is immaterial and non-physical;
• Believing in an unbounded, eternal cosmos, as I do; I believe it is nonsense to suggest that our Father can exist outside of space and time;
• I firmly believe in the literal resurrection of our Lord Jesus Christ.
• I am Lutheran in my theology of the Sacrament of Holy Communion, i.e. I affirm the consubstantial nature of the host and cup after it's blessing. Receiving the body and blood of my Lord in the bread and wine, I receive what I have learned to receive, that which heals my soul, lifts my spirit, and gives me hope for the world to come.
• I can participate in the ritual with, literally, any Christian, because the symbol is that real to me and what it is for me is not contingent upon the righteousness or theology of any other person in the crowd that I commune with.
• Do you object? I weep.

 

[Kenny]

yeah....but now take a look at the event as if you were at the table

the Passover was intended as remembrance of Moses

and the Carpenter spoke …..Do THIS in memory of ME

usurping the ceremony from tradition
THAT is NOT very Jewish

as a Jew......watching this happen
and then you partake.....

are you still a Jew?

Absolutely, if you understand the fulness of the Passover event that he held.

"In today's Jewish celebration, the second or middle of three pieces of unleavened bread is taken from a special bag called the matzah tosh. The bread is removed, broken, and the portion that is wrapped in the cloth becomes the afikomen that is then hidden from view.

After dinner, the tradition turns into a fun game for the children who search for the afikomen and are rewarded when they find it. The bread is then broken and distributed among the participants who all eat it together. Does this bring anything to mind?

When Jesus celebrated Passover with His disciples in the upper room, He broke the bread we know as the afikomen and distributed it to His disciples saying, "Take, eat; this is My body which is broken for you; do this in remembrance of Me." (1 Corinthians 11:24)

We know that our Messiah's sinless body was "broken" in death, wrapped in a cloth and hidden as in burial, then brought back; resurrected by the power of God. It is truly a reward to those who find and partake in the life He offers. ."

Mysterious Passover Symbols

So... not usurping the event but fulfilling of the event.

 

[metis]

Huh?

The eucharist of the Bible is spoken prayer. There is no wafer, no priest-blessed wine or juice, no monstrance, basilica, pope, etc.

"Eucharist" means "thanksgiving", and it is used to commemorate the "Last Supper", and it involves prayers and blessings over unleavened bread and wine that Jesus, and later Church "elders" ("bishops" & "priests"), distributed and still distributes to congregants.

Here: Eucharist - Wikipedia

 

[1213]

...Does the Bible say that one must partake of the bread and wine, the Eucharist/Memorial/Last Supper, in order to be a Christian?

And does the Bible say that one must be a anointed, a child of God, and heir with Christ, in order to be a approved by God and thus a Christian?
...

Christian means in the Bible a disciple of Jesus (Acts 11:26). To be a disciple, one must be baptized and remain in the teachings of Jesus.

Therefore go, and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all things that I commanded you. Behold, I am with you always, even to the end of the age."
Mat. 28:19-20

Jesus therefore said to those Jews who had believed him, "If you remain in my word, then you are truly my disciples. You will know the truth, and the truth will make you free."
John 8:31-32

 

[MJFlores]

Does the Bible say that one must partake of the bread and wine, the Eucharist/Memorial/Last Supper, in order to be a Christian?

It depends.

And does the Bible say that one must be a anointed, a child of God, and heir with Christ, in order to be a approved by God and thus a Christian?

It also depends.

It depends on who the persons giving the holy supper to you and it depends on who the persons giving the holy baptism to you. Are they sent? Who sent them?

Ephesians 4:4-6 New International Version (NIV)
There is one body and one Spirit, just as you were called to one hope when you were called; one Lord, one faith, one baptism; one God and Father of all, who is over all and through all and in all.

What is that one body?
Colossians 1:18 New International Version (NIV)
And he is the head of the body, the church; he is the beginning and the firstborn from among the dead, so that in everything he might have the supremacy.

Is that church headed by Christ or headed by someone else?
If it is headed by someone else then it is not that one body referred to in the Bible

If the church is not headed by Christ, then everybody is separate from Christ.
The one Spirit will not be there. And if the one Spirit is not there, there is no hope in that church
That church is still with the world and the world does not have God

Ephesians 2:12 New International Version (NIV)
remember that at that time you were separate from Christ, excluded from citizenship in Israel and foreigners to the covenants of the promise, without hope and without God in the world.

So what happens to the alleged holy supper? The alleged baptism and everything?

Matthew 15:9 New International Version (NIV)
They worship me in vain;
their teachings are merely human rules.

 

[rational experiences]

Imagine that everyone did not own a building to live in.

What would you be doing, in spiritual real human life with Nature?

Eating food out of the nature Garden.

Didn't history state that in building, Jesus, the reference to the spiritual life of man....which means human actually for males tend to claim that they speak on behalf of everything in human life.....claim and due to buildings my human life was sacrificed of blood and healthy cells and I unnaturally bled, and said my Father purposely sacrificed my life to save everyone? (science/civilization status)

Yes would be the claim. How were we saved, actually? We look at life and see it was saved owning early age life sacrifice and death and also living naturally and healthy.

So life was saved to be sacrificed is what was taught.

If we then claim, I act out a reminder...and partake of the food of life of our spirit....then the small body is microbial energy/life in holy water.

If I were not sacrificed I would not need to replace extra bodies into my own....and so I applied a ceremony of remembrance....what was lost from our bodies....our holy blood and what was lost from our bodies...holy water and food.

Whilst I looked directly at the human body sacrificed on Earth for changing the Nature Garden body.....our Tree of Life. What it was meant to infer, a human teaching, about remembering that your own human adult Father, the scientist sacrificed your life.

Why the CHURCH was built and said the founding of this building is to equate that stone/rock will no longer be changed....and I then acted on behalf of the loss of the spiritual Father in human life. Why I placated and loved, and cared, and was kind and nurtured my human family who had lost in their child life a caring Father presence.

When a human survives great tragedy it is the nature of the human self to claim....I am worthy and was saved, I might be harmed but I did not want to die before my time. That human expressive condition is real and true to life.

It never made the sacrifice of life a holy act...the holy act became reverencing and teaching that life is meant to be lived in a holy life body.

What the CHURCH gave back in memorial to the loss of life.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

You do not have to take communion (the Eucharist) in order to be considered a Christian. You do need to be baptised, however. Baptism is the defining ritual (sacrament) of Christianity.

By the way, what "the bible says" is often something people can argue about, given the various passages one can quote and how they can be interpreted. For this reason, most Christian denominations rely, not only on reading the bible for themselves, but also on a body of teaching derived from it.

I mostly agree but I do think that, after Baptism, the Eucharist is the most important Sacrament as it connects us directly with God Himself and also all other believers who partake.