Europeans: Would you like the EU to collapse?

[lunakilo]

No I am not talking about the euro-zone I an talking about the EU.
Would you rather that the EU ceased to exist or do you see the EU as a positive thing for Europe?

If the euro collpses do you think that will also be the end of the EU?

 

[Panda]

I have said no because the EU in principle is an great idea. However it's current state is just awful, it is badly managed, expensive (they wanted increases in budget while all national governments were decreasing spending) and far too bureaucratic. Too work well the whole structure would need an overall IMO.

 

[sandandfoam]

Yes I would. The EEC was far enough.
I do not like the idea of a federal Europe and I do not want to see it develop. How long before such an entity would start down the road of military adventures?

 

[Reverend Rick]

Obviously I'm not European, but let me ask a respectful question even though this is not a DIR.

Do you not think this is just another step towards a one world government?

Here in the States our finances are tied to the Euro and our economy will be affected by the outcome.

Things have got so big, that no one leader has control of anything financial anymore.

How can anything be succesful when things get so big that no one has a say in it anymore?

 

[Panda]

Obviously I'm not European, but let me ask a respectful question even though this is not a DIR.

Do you not think this is just another step towards a one world government?

In a way I hope so. Though it would just be one tiny step. Broadly speaking the EU countries are fairly similar in terms of culture, religion etc (when compared to most non-European countries) and we still struggle to get along.

 

[illykitty]

No as I see it as a step towards uniting people. It's all about the "us vs them". When it was just tribes, the other tribes were them. Now it's countries. I want the whole Earth to be one big family, as it should be. We are all Earthlings!

 

[sandandfoam]

Things have got so big, that no one leader has control of anything financial anymore.

How can anything be succesful when things get so big that no one has a say in it anymore?

I think the only way it could be successful is through 'strong' centralisded government. Dictatorship.

Democracy and notions of national sovereignty have been ditched with improper haste in the recent months and years.

Reason enough to be aginst it.

 

[Panda]

Yes I would. The EEC was far enough.
I do not like the idea of a federal Europe and I do not want to see it develop. How long before such an entity would start down the road of military adventures?

As opposed to NATO military ventures? All the main European military powers are already part of a large joint military organisation.

The EU only has as much power as the member states are willing to give it. I see no advantage to everyone maintaining their tiny little countries in perpetuity. Surely you can see the benefit of an EU like organisation? (Not necessarily the way it is currently run though.)

 

[Father Heathen]

Obviously I'm not European, but let me ask a respectful question even though this is not a DIR.

Do you not think this is just another step towards a one world government?

The "one world government" is just a silly bogyman.

Here in the States our finances are tied to the Euro and our economy will be affected by the outcome.

Things have got so big, that no one leader has control of anything financial anymore.

How can anything be succesful when things get so big that no one has a say in it anymore?

I thought you liked the idea of a freemarket? You want one person, with no checks and balances, to regulate the economics?

 

[Panda]

The "one world government" is just a silly bogyman.

Why do you think that?

 

[sandandfoam]

As opposed to NATO military ventures? All the main European military powers are already part of a large joint military organisation.

The EU only has as much power as the member states are willing to give it. I see no advantage to everyone maintaining their tiny little countries in perpetuity. Surely you can see the benefit of an EU like organisation? (Not necessarily the way it is currently run though.)

No I can't see it Panda.
I want to live in a small, neutral, peripheral country. I see no advantage whatsoever accruing to me or mine through being forced to march to the beat of a German drum.

 

[Panda]

No I can't see it Panda.
I want to live in a small, neutral, peripheral country. I see no advantage whatsoever accruing to me or mine through being forced to march to the beat of a German drum.

But why? What advantages does this have? What is wrong (in theory) with organisations like the EU?

 

[Father Heathen]

Why do you think that?

Because U.S. Christian Conservatives often claim that liberalism and secularism are out to take over the world (via the U.N., for one example, also rascally Jews and Freemasons, Illuminati, etc.), and then the Antichrist will come to rule the earth, or some such nonsense.

That aside, it's highly unlikely due to vast cultural, political and religious differences, and wealthy, powerful nations don't want to share their resources and influence, or shoulder the weaker, poorer nations.

 

[jarofthoughts]

Would you rather that the EU ceased to exist or do you see the EU as a positive thing for Europe?

I see the EU and similar types of economic cooperation as a good thing in principle, and for the time being, the EU is what we have, somewhat dysfunctional as it may be.
Being economically dependent upon each other has a mitigating effect and, as was the original purpose of the European Coal and Steel Community, it helps prevent hostilities.
So, no, I would not like to see it cease to exist.

If the euro collpses do you think that will also be the end of the EU?

No, but being a prestige project it will undoubtedly weaken the EU.

 

[Flankerl]

Yes and no. There needs to be a smaller new EU.
Perhaps consisting of France, Germany and the BeNeLux.

Sooner or later the other european countries would cry about their loss of influence.

 

[lunakilo]

As opposed to NATO military ventures? All the main European military powers are already part of a large joint military organisation.

The EU only has as much power as the member states are willing to give it. I see no advantage to everyone maintaining their tiny little countries in perpetuity. Surely you can see the benefit of an EU like organisation? (Not necessarily the way it is currently run though.)

I want to frubal you for this, but I just did so I can't

 

[lunakilo]

Yes and no. There needs to be a smaller new EU.
Perhaps consisting of France, Germany and the BeNeLux.

Sooner or later the other european countries would cry about their loss of influence.

What? I can't be in on i?

Seriously why would you want to only include those countries?
Is it an economic thing?
Cultural thing?

 

[lunakilo]

I see the EU and similar types of economic cooperation as a good thing in principle, and for the time being, the EU is what we have, somewhat dysfunctional as it may be.
Being economically dependent upon each other has a mitigating effect and, as was the original purpose of the European Coal and Steel Community, it helps prevent hostilities.
So, no, I would not like to see it cease to exist.



No, but being a prestige project it will undoubtedly weaken the EU.

What jarofthoughts said

 

[sandandfoam]

But why? What advantages does this have? What is wrong (in theory) with organisations like the EU?

I am in principle against unaccountable centralised power.
I am in favour of national self-determination and democracy.
We were a colony for 800 years. That was enough foreign rule for any country.

 

[sandandfoam]

I want to frubal you for this, but I just did so I can't

Actually this post highlights the invisibleness of small countries.
Ireland is a neutral country. A matter of no-importance/relevance at all from a European pov.