Europeans: Would you like the EU to collapse?

[sandandfoam]

Yes and no. There needs to be a smaller new EU.
Perhaps consisting of France, Germany and the BeNeLux.

Sooner or later the other european countries would cry about their loss of influence.

Sooner or later the Germans will realise that you don't export so much stuff when your currency inflates by 40% to it's real value.

The rest of us will regain the competitiveness we have surrendered for the greater German good and say good riddance to a lousy currency, austerity and Frau Merkel.

 

[Terrywoodenpic]

A middle sized European country like the UK needs to be part of Europe.
The problem is that the UK and others want the benefits with out the discipline or the attached costs.
Europe must be a long term project but will get there by overcoming many short term goals.

Politically the UK is still way out of line with most other European countries.

 

[Reverend Rick]

and wealthy, powerful nations don't want to share their resources and influence, or shoulder the weaker, poorer nations.

I believe this sums things up.

 

[sandandfoam]

I believe this sums things up.

Except in a very tangible way what is actually happening is that weaker poorer nations are shouldering powerful wealthy ones.

We in the poorer nations have a currency that is overvalued relative to our economies in order to provide the strong economies, especially Germany with an undervalued currency. If Germany was still using the mark the value of their currency would be 40% higher according to commentators.

Second, we in the poorer countries have had our lives turned upside down to bail out German and French banks.

It's a topsy turvy world and - as since time immemorial - the big coutries are screwing the small ones.

 

[Panda]

Except in a very tangible way what is actually happening is that weaker poorer nations are shouldering powerful wealthy ones.

We in the poorer nations have a currency that is overvalued relative to our economies in order to provide the strong economies, especially Germany with an undervalued currency. If Germany was still using the mark the value of their currency would be 40% higher according to commentators.

Second, we in the poorer countries have had our lives turned upside down to bail out German and French banks.

It's a topsy turvy world and - as since time immemorial - the big coutries are screwing the small ones.

Aren't the Irish banks just as guilty as all the others though? Also I am confused how Ireland has bailed out German and French banks when Ireland has also had to be bailed out?

 

[Panda]

I believe this sums things up.

Bah have room for some sort of optimism

 

[Flankerl]

Sooner or later the Germans will realise that you don't export so much stuff when your currency inflates by 40% to it's real value.

The rest of us will regain the competitiveness we have surrendered for the greater German good and say good riddance to a lousy currency, austerity and Frau Merkel.

You dont have any competitiveness because you cant produce the stuff the germans produce in the same quality or pretty much at all.

Or do you honestly believe that France, Britain or Spain start producing the stuff that goes into the stuff which goes into the stuff, which goes into the stuff, which goes into the stuff that makes the stuff we use in our daily life?

Turns out it was a bad idea to switch to a service-economy while the germans kept their industry.

What? I can't be in on i?

Seriously why would you want to only include those countries?
Is it an economic thing?
Cultural thing?

I'd exclude Denmark and the other northern countries because they mind their own business when its about their economy. They rather trade amongst themselves (even though Denmark shares the border with Germany).


As far as the other countries are concerned, Spain and Portugal are economic big nos'.
Italy is basically the same though a bit better.
Austria, Czech Rep, Poland and Hungary are pretty anti-EU even though they wanted to join from the start. Poland probably only wanted to join to annoy Germany.

Slovenia and soon Croatia are rather neutral as are the Baltic countries.

Greece.... well Greece. :beach:


No hate for you danish, I even excluded my birthplace Austria.

 

[sandandfoam]

Aren't the Irish banks just as guilty as all the others though? Also I am confused how Ireland has bailed out German and French banks when Ireland has also had to be bailed out?

Irish Banks owed money to French and German Banks. Lot's of it.
The ECB instructed the Irish government to transfer the bank debt to the sovereign to avoid defaulting on Irish Bank Debt.

The up-shoot is that very large French, German and other Banks lent recklessly to Irish Banks. The Irish Banks are insolvent so the Irish people have to bail out the creditors of Irish Banks.

Madness.

All the professional investors walk away from mad investments fully paid in a process which has rendered the ordinary people of Ireland destitute.

We're the fall guy. My kids are the fall guys. This debt is going to take generations to pay back.

 

[sandandfoam]

Turns out it was a bad idea to switch to a service-economy while the germans kept their industry.

We're not a service economy. Agriculture, IT and pharma are huge exports.
Although if France and Germany get their way regarding corporation tax the manufacturing industry here will also be decimated. Great.

 

[lunakilo]

I'd exclude Denmark and the other northern countries because they mind their own business when its about their economy. They rather trade amongst themselves (even though Denmark shares the border with Germany).

Actually Germany is Denmarks largest trade partner in Europe.
Batteling with Sweden for first place and usually winning as far as I know.

... Poland probably only wanted to join to annoy Germany.

Anyway, that is an explanation as to why the euro-zone should shrink, not why the EU should.

 

[Kerr]

No I am not talking about the euro-zone I an talking about the EU.
Would you rather that the EU ceased to exist or do you see the EU as a positive thing for Europe?

If the euro collpses do you think that will also be the end of the EU?

I voted for no but not wanting my country to be part of it, mainly because it seems to... detached... from where I live. And I dont like the idea of centralizing power the way the EU seems to be doing (or trying to do). But I have not considered all implications of it collapsing and I am dont know how it would actually effect everyone. And I am definatly not against cooperating with other countries.

 

[Breathe]

I have said no because the EU in principle is an great idea. However it's current state is just awful, it is badly managed, expensive (they wanted increases in budget while all national governments were decreasing spending) and far too bureaucratic. Too work well the whole structure would need an overall IMO.

Completely agree.

In its current state, I really don't like the way the EU is being run.

If it changed, well, I think I'd like it a lot more. I'm even okay with a possible EU superstate... :run:

:cover:

 

[Panda]

Completely agree.

In its current state, I really don't like the way the EU is being run.

If it changed, well, I think I'd like it a lot more. I'm even okay with a possible EU superstate... :run:

:cover:

I think an EU state with countries having devolved powers similar to what Scotland and Wales currently have in the UK would be fine.

 

[Breathe]

I think an EU state with countries having devolved powers similar to what Scotland and Wales currently have in the UK would be fine.

That's actually what I was thinking.
Looks like we're on the same page.

 

[sandandfoam]

That's actually what I was thinking.
Looks like we're on the same page.

World peace would be good too - unfortunately it's not on the menu either.

 

[Polarbear]

No I am not talking about the euro-zone I an talking about the EU.
Would you rather that the EU ceased to exist or do you see the EU as a positive thing for Europe?

I would not want the EU to collaps. Countries like Norway need the workforce we get from abroad through the union. I am however pretty apathic about wheter or not we become a full member.

If the euro collpses do you think that will also be the end of the EU?

Probably not, the union yields to many financial benefits even without the euro for that to happen.