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EV Movement, Plastic Bag Bans, etc. - Is Motive Really Environment or Control? (solar, recycling)

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
And families with multiple vehicles? How many outlets and how high is their electric bill going to be? That is between brown and blackouts from extreme overload on the grid.
Why did you ask how high their electric bill is going to be? Didn't you realize that it is a very silly question? If need be they only need another outlet or two at the most added. That is not expensive. If you thought this out at all you would not need to ask such questions.
 

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
Meh. Gas technology in vehicles has pretty much stagnated over the past 50 years. Electric technology has been exponentially growing with no signs of stopping. It's where the future is going. We can either embrace the technology and build on an infrastructure that allows us to take the lead on innovation, or we can stagnate while the rest of the world passes us by. I'd rather we capitalize on this opportunity
And even if we did not build for the greater load that electric cars will put on the grid, we already need to update the national power grid. It is beginning to fail again and again due to overuse as it is. Sometimes catastrophically. If we are going to rebuild it, it does not cost that much more to add on a bit of extra carrying capacity for cars. At the worst let's say that we find a better technology than electric and here was have a power system that carries more than we need. That would only allow for the expansion due to population growth that is going to come some day. There is no down side to refurbishing the system correctly.
 

We Never Know

No Slack
And families with multiple vehicles? How many outlets and how high is their electric bill going to be? That is between brown and blackouts from extreme overload on the grid.

We can't forget about all the asphalt and concrete we add more and more of each year.
For example if the air temp is 87°.. asphalt will be around 143° and concrete around 123°.
Both absorb the suns heat and radiate it back out even through the night.
 

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
We can't forget about all the asphalt and concrete we add more and more of each year.
For example if the air temp is 87°.. asphalt will be around 143° and concrete around 123°.
Both absorb the suns heat and radiate it back out even through the night.
I would like to see how building materials affect AGW. I know of the urban heat island effect. I knew about that before AGW was ever in the news. I used to own a motorcycle and you could feel the temperature go up as you left the country and drove into the city.
 

F1fan

Veteran Member
The problem is fitting in all those charging stations and the time needed to charge the car has to go down by a great deal.

The Tesla Supercharger is the fastest charging option when you're away from home, allowing you to charge your car up to 200 miles in 15 minutes.

Whether that is true or not I don't know as there seem to be a lot of different numbers when you search on it. But still, imagine a motorway where each car has to spend 15 minutes charging, they have to be huge or there need to be a lot of them or they need to charge them in towers like parking buildings or something.
How far are people driving in a day? Over 300 miles, the range of most EV's today? I don't see that as an unsolvable problem. As long as drivers top up the battery every night there shouldn;t be a problem for the average person doing errands.
But also the huge amount of batteries needed, one can wonder how eco-friendly they really are and how these exact numbers are calculated. But there seem to be different views on this as expected. :)
The global community should have started research decades ago, and not let the fossil fuel lobby influence politicians to the degree it has.
 

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
Come on, that's why cars and planes and boats and bicycles were all banned as soon as people died from using them.
What got me was the question about electricity rates. He did not even give one second to thinking about how much gasoline costs. Recently there was some talk that charging stations were almost on par with gas stations when it came to costs, With the nod still going to charging stations. You can do it at home. And it is cheaper. By a factor of three or more. That means, given the rough equivalence of gasoline costs for energy and electric at charging stations that means if one switches to electric and their electricity rates go up by $50.00 that means that their gas expenditures would have dropped $150.00 for a net gain of $100 a month. A bigger electrical bill would mean that they were saving money. A lot of money.

 

metis

aged ecumenical anthropologist
Well, we live rather to the north, so that has a limit, but yes, it has an effect.
Good point. We had a place near Lake Superior for 28 years, and when I went to a car dealership there and inquired about a hybrid, I was advised it would be a waste of money because at below 0 F. temps, the batteries don't hold a charge well. Heck, when compared to us Yoopers, Denmark is more like a sauna! :p
 

SomeRandom

Still learning to be wise
Staff member
Premium Member
Completely anecdotal but my Mum has a hybrid electric and fuel vehicle.
Not only does she get much more mileage from her tank, but she doesn’t spend nearly as much on fuel as she used to. Even compared to me and my car is fairly fuel efficient all things considered.

The way I see it, electric cars would be a god send. Far cheaper than the arm and leg I pay for fuel these days. And if a hybrid is more economical for the tank, then I’d imagine the full thing is better.
EVs have my vote lol
 

metis

aged ecumenical anthropologist
Completely anecdotal but my Mum has a hybrid electric and fuel vehicle.
Not only does she get much more mileage from her tank, but she doesn’t spend nearly as much on fuel as she used to. Even compared to me and my car is fairly fuel efficient all things considered.

The way I see it, electric cars would be a god send. Far cheaper than the arm and leg I pay for fuel these days. And if a hybrid is more economical for the tank, then I’d imagine the full thing is better.
EVs have my vote lol
Same here because the alternative is far worse.
 

pearl

Well-Known Member
Completely anecdotal but my Mum has a hybrid electric and fuel vehicle.

As does my daughter. Before Covid and working from home her commute to the office was 4 hours a day, from E Greenwich RI
to Boston. She cut her fuel cost to less than half as she bought a Lincoln hybrid. The one drawback is the high cost of repair if something
does go wrong, but even then the savings of fuel was worth it.
 

pearl

Well-Known Member
I don't know what our city is going to do about plastic. As it is now all rubbish that is not recyclable must be placed in
plastic bags manufactured and sold by the city. We are running out of landfill space.
 

9-10ths_Penguin

1/10 Subway Stalinist
Premium Member
Good point. We had a place near Lake Superior for 28 years, and when I went to a car dealership there and inquired about a hybrid, I was advised it would be a waste of money because at below 0 F. temps, the batteries don't hold a charge well. Heck, when compared to us Yoopers, Denmark is more like a sauna! :p

For the past few years, my work vehicle has been an electric car. Cold temperatures haven't been an issue.

The main way that it impacts range (slightly) is that cabin heat is done with heating elements, so turning on the heat uses a bit of the electricity you could have used to propel the car.
 

exchemist

Veteran Member
The problem is fitting in all those charging stations and the time needed to charge the car has to go down by a great deal.

The Tesla Supercharger is the fastest charging option when you're away from home, allowing you to charge your car up to 200 miles in 15 minutes.

Whether that is true or not I don't know as there seem to be a lot of different numbers when you search on it. But still, imagine a motorway where each car has to spend 15 minutes charging, they have to be huge or there need to be a lot of them or they need to charge them in towers like parking buildings or something.

But also the huge amount of batteries needed, one can wonder how eco-friendly they really are and how these exact numbers are calculated. But there seem to be different views on this as expected. :)
Batteries will be a huge issue. Materials like lithium and cobalt are becoming strategic and geopolitical, and so is the extraction and processing capacity. The Chinese, naturally, are on the case, Chile is waking up to it, Australia, which sits on huge Li deposits, does not seem to have………etc.

These materials may confer power and influence on countries just as oil and gas have done in the past.
 

jbg

Active Member
But also the huge amount of batteries needed, one can wonder how eco-friendly they really are and how these exact numbers are calculated. But there seem to be different views on this as expected. :)
No one asks questions that get in the way of feeling virtuous.
 
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