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Evangelical Atheism

Onyx

Active Member
Premium Member
Is Atheism a religion; if organized?
I don't really think so. Atheism doesn't meet the criteria of a religion in my view, regardless of how outspoken or organized its adherents are.
 

lewisnotmiller

Grand Hat
Staff member
Premium Member
this isn't a debate about theism. it's about evangelical atheism.

He's answering it.
Atheism is an umbrella term, in the same way theism is. Atheism cannot be a religion, or the same reason theism can't.
Doesn't mean some atheists might not act in a religious fashion, or even be religious though.
 

Kuzcotopia

If you can read this, you are as lucky as I am.
Is Atheism a religion; if organized?
The tiny representation on these board take a wide variety of opinions and stances on everything.

Just check out how we argue with each other on the political forums. What do we agree on, other than rejecting all the god claims we've heard so far?
 

SkepticX

Member

ADigitalArtist

Veteran Member
Staff member
Premium Member
Atheism is not a religion in the same way that theism is not a religion. There are religions which are atheistic just like there are religions which are theistic. But atheism and theism alone do not contain enough information to merit the term 'religion.'
Further, passion doesn't make a religion, besides informal lay usage of the term. One who is passionate about sports could be jokingly referred to sports being their religion, but there's no actual valid argument to be made that sports is a religion or their religion in a meaningful way. There's a lot of dispute about whether registered religions such as LaVey Satanism or certain studies of Buddhism should be considered religions, let alone atheism which, even at its most passionate, doesn't have doctrines, rituals, and other identifiers of religious worship.
 

Debater Slayer

Vipassana
Staff member
Premium Member

From the article in the Laughington Post:

There is, as has often been noted, something peculiarly evangelistic about what has been termed the new atheist movement ... It is no exaggeration to describe the movement popularized by the likes of Richard Dawkins, Daniel Dennett, Sam Harris, and Christopher Hitchens as a new and particularly zealous form of fundamentalism — an atheist fundamentalism. The parallels with religious fundamentalism are obvious and startling: the conviction that they are in sole possession of truth (scientific or otherwise), the troubling lack of tolerance for the views of their critics (Dawkins has compared creationists to Holocaust deniers), the insistence on a literalist reading of scripture (more literalist, in fact, than one finds among most religious fundamentalists), the simplistic reductionism of the religious phenomenon, and, perhaps most bizarrely, their overwhelming sense of siege: the belief that they have been oppressed and marginalized by Western societies and are just not going to take it anymore.

1) The conviction that "New Atheists" are in "sole possession of truth" doesn't seem to me to cross the boundaries of merely arguing that they do hold more rational stances on a lot of issues than their critics, and I fully agree with that. The difference between many New Atheists and religious fundamentalists in general is that New Atheists repeatedly present arguments as to why they believe their stances are more correct than their critics'. Contrast that with merely throwing scriptural verses in their critics' faces and you should be able to see why comparing them to religious fundamentalists in this aspect is superficial at best, even if both sides deceptively seem similar.

2) "Troubling lack of tolerance for views of their critics" strikes me as the kind of conflation that so many liberals engage in nowadays to dismiss criticism of religion. So what if New Atheists don't tolerate views they consider irrational as long as they aren't intolerant toward people without justification? I have no tolerance for the belief that homosexuals are inherently sinful, for example. Actually, I think intolerance toward certain views is healthy and sometimes necessary.

3) Literalist reading of scripture: the author may have a point here in that Dawkins, for instance, has expressed black-and-white opinions concerning religious belief, but to generalize and say that this is the norm among New Atheists seems rather simplistic, not to mention that many religious people do subscribe to the kinds of literalist readings that people like Dawkins criticize, so it's not like the likes of Dawkins are making up such readings. Generalizing and saying that all religious interpretations are literalist is incorrect, but criticizing literalist readings overall, especially considering how popular they are with many religious people, seems very reasonable to me.

4) "They have been oppressed and marginalized by Western societies"? I agree 100%. Maybe it's less common nowadays than it used to be, but ask yourself this: what would happen if a presidential candidate openly came out as an atheist in the U.S.? Would he or she stand a chance against, say, a Christian? Furthermore, in certain religious communities, in Western societies or not, coming out as an atheist puts one at risk of shunning and social persecution, so New Atheists have a point there.

Overall, I think so much of the criticism aimed at New Atheism and New Atheists in general is unreasonable and holds them to different standards than other groups, such as religious ones. I don't recall the last time a public New Atheist intellectual has said that religious people will go to Hell, for example, or that they deserve eternal torment. When you consider the fact that millions of religious people believe such things about atheists, it should put into perspective just how lopsided much of the criticism of New Atheism is.

Edit: Also, no, I don't think atheism is a religion, since it doesn't have tenets, doctrine, or teachings. It's only the lack of belief in any god or gods.
 
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9-10ths_Penguin

1/10 Subway Stalinist
Premium Member
this isn't a debate about theism. it's about evangelical atheism.
I'm just making a point: merely believing in some sort of god isn't enough to define a religion; why on Earth would you assume that the lack of a belief in gods is enough to define one?
 

Deathbydefault

Apistevist Asexual Atheist
Is Atheism a religion; if organized?

Not at all.
Atheism by itself cannot be a religion, same with theism.
They are simple belief statements directed towards a claim.
"I believe god(s) exist" and "I don't believe god(s) exist."

The religion part comes when an entire way of life and system of beliefs is brought up with one of the statements in mind.
 

Sunstone

De Diablo Del Fora
Premium Member
New atheists? I'm not seeing a distinction between today's atheists and the atheists of former times. It's not like Ingersoll (1800s) or Meslier (early 1700s) ever pulled their punches.
 

LuisDantas

Aura of atheification
Premium Member
Indeed.

When people talk about "new atheism", the only part that is "new" is the realization that atheism exists and is not something to be ashamed of.

It is not the atheism that is new. It is the social awareness of it.
 

LuisDantas

Aura of atheification
Premium Member
Is Atheism a religion; if organized?
Of course not. Atheism is far too simple an idea to ever become a religion.

Even theism, a somewhat more ambitious claim, is still too simple to be a religion in and of itself.

Organized atheists can start religions, and have. Sam Harris specifically at least approaches that field. So did Buddha Gautama.
 

Altfish

Veteran Member
Is Atheism a religion; if organized?
NO. Not a religion.

I'm a member of a local Humanist group in the UK. But attendance is infrequent, only go when I am attracted by an interesting topic or speaker.
We have no tenants or creeds. Yes, we want our voice heard at the same level as local churches, mosques, etc. and that is the main reason to be organised to counter the religion pushed by theists
 

Altfish

Veteran Member
Indeed.

When people talk about "new atheism", the only part that is "new" is the realization that atheism exists and is not something to be ashamed of.

It is not the atheism that is new. It is the social awareness of it.
Spot on.

Religion was used to getting a free pass.
 

In this context it represents an ideology, which is different from being a religion. While all religions contain ideologies, not all ideologies are religions.

Evangelical atheism represents the propagation of a specific ideology based around scientific-rationalism and the universalism of post-Christian ethics. It is not simply vanilla atheism.

When people talk about "new atheism", the only part that is "new" is the realization that atheism exists and is not something to be ashamed of.

It is not the atheism that is new. It is the social awareness of it.

It actually relates to the increase in the perceived importance of promoting anti-theistic Rationalism in the post 9/11 among a small, informal group of thinkers.

'New' really relates to the impetus rather than a claim of originality or distinction in thought.

It's generally treated as a proper noun relating to an ideology anyway (rather than being seen as adjective noun) which largely renders questions of how 'new' it is to be irrelevant.
 

LuisDantas

Aura of atheification
Premium Member
'New' really relates to the impetus rather than a claim of originality or distinction in thought.
Perceived impetus.

It's generally treated as a proper noun relating to an ideology anyway (rather than being seen as adjective noun) which largely renders questions of how 'new' it is to be irrelevant.
I beg to differ. The "novelty" is all in the perception. As is the coherence of ideology, incidentally. Dawkins, for instance, is far more anti-religious than Harris.
 
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