evangelicals and MJ

[samanthaca]

from what I now understand, most MJ rabbis dont do conversions because of influence from evangelicals.

my question is two fold if anyone can please explain it, I am now very curious!

1) first, why would evangelicals be opposed to someone converting to MJ? even if they are opposed to it personally, why would they really care if someone wants to go and convert to MJ (do they claim some type of scriptural basis, or is it just underlying anti-semitic feelings, etc.)


2) even if evangelicals are opposed to it, why would MJs care what they think? esp given the fact that mainstream Judaism including orthodox, DO find basis for, and do conversions...wouldnt they want to align themselves with that, rather than what some evangelicals say?

thank you

not sure why but its bothering me and Im very curious why. I have my own sense of why evangelicals are opposed to it, which I will share later...

 

[Zardoz]

I believe I answered the first question over in the other thread.

As to the second, my personal experience was in that thread as well. Messianic Jews are almost universally rejected and ostracized by every other Jewish institution and branch. Their only ally is, whether they like it or not, the evangelical christians. There would be no MJ congregations without them. One camp pushed them away, one camp became a vital lifeline. I don't know of very many born Jews who are now MJ who like this situation, but that's the political reality.

I decided to get out of that situation, permanently.

 

[Starsoul]

Hi there, I had a question too if anyone willing to answer.

What is the relation of Messianic judaism to islam? If any. Also, what is the core belief/ motto, purpose of this branch of judaism, because if its a movement, it must have a purpose. I read the intro about in this dir, but I was unable to locate the answers to my questions. Thank you.

 

[samanthaca]

can you explain what you mean when you say their 'relation' to Islam? (are you trying to understand what MJ's think of Islam, or ??) just trying to clarify.

 

[Shermana]

I believe I answered the first question over in the other thread.

As to the second, my personal experience was in that thread as well. Messianic Jews are almost universally rejected and ostracized by every other Jewish institution and branch. Their only ally is, whether they like it or not, the evangelical christians. There would be no MJ congregations without them. One camp pushed them away, one camp became a vital lifeline. I don't know of very many born Jews who are now MJ who like this situation, but that's the political reality.

I decided to get out of that situation, permanently.

Evangelicals are our ally? Since when? They are among the reasons the modern Jews for the most part reject Christianity. Better to have 100 of us than 100,000 sell-outs.

 

[Zardoz]

Hi there, I had a question too if anyone willing to answer.

What is the relation of Messianic judaism to islam? If any. Also, what is the core belief/ motto, purpose of this branch of judaism, because if its a movement, it must have a purpose. I read the intro about in this dir, but I was unable to locate the answers to my questions. Thank you.

Shalom!

I will do my best. Since you read the intro, you see there's a wide spectrum of belief. All one can do is answer with their own POV. There isn't a unified 'movement' in other words, that has an agreed upon set of beliefs. There does seem, IMO, to be four distinct characteristics of MJ. Some are trinitarian, some are not. Some come from Jewish origins, some come from non-Jewish backgrounds. It would be a mistake to assume that all of the trinitarians are from Christian backgrounds, in my experience many are in the MJ movement specifically to leave trinitarian beliefs behind.

I am a non-trinitarian type of MJ who is from Jewish roots. To distance myself from trinitarians I now label myself as Ebionite. I admit I don't know a lot about Islam, however I do know that Moslems honor Yeshua and that they are definitely not trinitarians. Therefore, I would think that many MJ have much in common with Islam, at least in this regard. In many other regards as well, I have seen.

JMHO

 

[Zardoz]

Evangelicals are our ally? Since when? They are among the reasons the modern Jews for the most part reject Christianity. Better to have 100 of us than 100,000 sell-outs.

Perhaps, I should have said ally to the MJ movement, as a whole. Evangelicals are at least true and consistent to their beliefs as they see it. I was treasurer in that large MJ congregation, I saw where the money came from. An amazing amount of support, and not from particularly rich people, may I add. I could add more, but this is a DIR.

 

[Desert Snake]

Perhaps, I should have said ally to the MJ movement, as a whole. Evangelicals are at least true and consistent to their beliefs as they see it. I was treasurer in that large MJ congregation, I saw where the money came from. An amazing amount of support, and not from particularly rich people, may I add. I could add more, but this is a DIR.

Why would there be animosity between MJ's and Christians, in your opinion.

 

[Zardoz]

Why would there be animosity between MJ's and Christians, in your opinion.

Animosity may be too strong a term, I have no animosity to any Abrahamic faith. There may very well be incompatibilities, however. Then again, there's incompatibilities between various branches of Judaism and between denominations of Christianity.

If you want to see some historical animosity between Christians and the original Messianic Jews, just google 'Judaizers'.

 

[Starsoul]

Thank you for the detailed reply zardoz, appreciate it. I enquired about Islam, because to my surprise I saw some red caps (keppit?) in the George washington Masonic church in VA, and they had islam written on them, some had Quran written on them with two swords underneath.. was just wondering whats going on.

 

[Shermana]

Perhaps, I should have said ally to the MJ movement, as a whole. Evangelicals are at least true and consistent to their beliefs as they see it. I was treasurer in that large MJ congregation, I saw where the money came from. An amazing amount of support, and not from particularly rich people, may I add. I could add more, but this is a DIR.

Wouldn't you consider that money tainted? If the Jews see that we are "allied" with them, doesn't that make us "The friend of the enemy"?

 

[Zardoz]

Thank you for the detailed reply zardoz, appreciate it. I enquired about Islam, because to my surprise I saw some red caps (keppit?) in the George washington Masonic church in VA, and they had islam written on them, some had Quran written on them with two swords underneath.. was just wondering whats going on.

Oh... Well, Masons are not of any one particular faith, and they are not Messianic Jews, though I suppose some might be. Since Masons are of every faith, it might very well be that the folks you saw with Quran text written on their Kippot might have been Moslems. But, I'm no expert on Freemasonry. I know a couple members but they are not Jews, it's not a Jewish organization.

 

[Zardoz]

Wouldn't you consider that money tainted? If the Jews see that we are "allied" with them, doesn't that make us "The friend of the enemy"?

I have met some donors personally. They seemed to have the best of intentions, but I suppose it depends on the the situation. I'm sure those who donate to J4J intend that they support missionizing to Jews. It's one reason but not the only reason I left leadership, and even membership. Knowing all the dirty little secrets disillusioned me.

Someday soon I really should make a thread about this in our private forum...

 

[Shermana]

I have met some donors personally. They seemed to have the best of intentions, but I suppose it depends on the the situation. I'm sure those who donate to J4J intend that they support missionizing to Jews. It's one reason but not the only reason I left leadership, and even membership. Knowing all the dirty little secrets disillusioned me.

Someday soon I really should make a thread about this in our private forum...

Why stop there? This sounds like a potential best-seller...

 

[Starsoul]

oh im sorry I thought Masonic judaism, was what MJ was about, my bad

So what do you understand about free masons, they seem quite suspicious :/