Even if hell is not eternal in nature.

[danieldemol]

It seems as though even if hell is not eternal in nature it still promotes an irrational fear in people and there are plenty of irrational fears that have lead to fanaticism.

Would it not make sense to promote scepticism about irrational fears people have in an effort to undermine them and thus minimise fanaticism?

To clarify im not talking about some sort of spiritual suffering which a person may experience even within there lifetime, I have in mind a literal hellfire which a person will burn or be physically tormented in for ages.

Thoughts?

 

[We Never Know]

It seems as though even if hell is not eternal in nature it still promotes an irrational fear in people and there are plenty of irrational fears that have lead to fanaticism.

Would it not make sense to promote scepticism about irrational fears people have in an effort to undermine them and thus minimise fanaticism?

To clarify im not talking about some sort of spiritual suffering which a person may experience even within there lifetime, I have in mind a literal hellfire which a person will burn or be physically tormented in for ages.

Thoughts?

When its comes to being tormented, mistreated, abused, etc many people live in hell everyday. To them hell is on earth.

 

[Glaurung]

I believe the existence of an after death moral reckoning to be basic spiritual truth. Whether or not this reckoning involves a literal place of penal fire is not something I would assert with certainty, although the image of such a place is found not only in Christianity and Islam but in Hinduism and Buddhism as well. The doctrine may make modern westerners uncomfortable but that is the nature of hard spiritual truths.

Now granted, I hope Christianity and Islam are mistaken about Hell's eternity, but the idea that there are spiritual consequences for how we live our earthly lives should not at all be denied or downplayed. It should not be denied because modern westerners do not like the idea of being liable for spiritual punishment for their lives of unrepentant vice.

 

[danieldemol]

When its comes to being tormented, mistreated, abused, etc many people live in hell everyday. To them hell is on earth.

True, but i honestly struggle with the idea of a God that is even ultimately benevolent setting fire to creatures for being the way they were created.

Perhaps this is because I'm struggling with the concept of free will as well

 

[We Never Know]

True, but i honestly struggle with the idea of a God that is even ultimately benevolent setting fire to creatures for being the way they were created.

Perhaps this is because I'm struggling with the concept of free will as well

Im not much on religion but..... god doesn't set fire to people, satan does.
We all are born not knowing right from wrong, As we grow we learn and choose which what we do and follow. Sometimes we make people suffer by our choices. That's freewill.
So in the end its our freewill that leads to getting our arse burned or not.

 

[danieldemol]

I believe the existence of an after death moral reckoning to be basic spiritual truth. Whether or not this reckoning involves a literal place of penal fire is not something I would assert with certainty, although the image of such a place is found not only in Christianity and Islam but in Hinduism and Buddhism as well. The doctrine may make modern westerners uncomfortable but that is the nature of hard spiritual truths.

Now granted, I hope Christianity and Islam are mistaken about Hell's eternity, but the idea that there are spiritual consequences for how we live our earthly lives should not at all be denied or downplayed. It should not be denied because modern westerners do not like the idea of being liable for spiritual punishment for their lives of unrepentant vice.

I have no problem with the idea that there might be consequences, for example what if they are born spiritually disempowered, like a person who didnt develop physically in the womb would be disabled in this life.

Its just the idea of someone being tormented by flames for "ages" whatever ages is supposed to mean.

I suppose if you have a strong belief in freewill and believe that most people would be sufficiently deprived of virtue to be deserving of being set on fire for ages it might make more sense I dont know...

 

[danieldemol]

Im not much on religion but..... god doesn't set fire to people, satan does.

In that scenario God allows Satan to do it.

We all are born not knowing right from wrong...

True

As we grow we learn and choose which what we do and follow. Sometimes we make people suffer by our choices.

Not everyone is raised well, so ignorance can contribute to poor choices, as can mental illness and other brain factors.

I'm not as sure as you that we really have choice in our choices (as in they may be predetermined by our mental states)

In my opinion.

 

[We Never Know]

In that scenario God allows Satan to do it.

True

Not everyone is raised well, so ignorance can contribute to poor choices, as can mental illness and other brain factors.

I'm not as sure as you that we really have choice in our choices (as in they may be predetermined by our mental states)

In my opinion.

John is driving home. Some mad at the world guy(Bill) swerved into his lane hitting him head on and killing him.

God didn't cause that nor did god stop that. It was freewill used by Bill(which god isnt supposed to interfere with) which was used badly by Bill and according to the bible he will have to answer to satan for it rather than god.
Good and bad exist simultaneously, equal out and can affect anyone.

 

[Glaurung]

I have no problem with the idea that there might be consequences, for example what if they are born spiritually disempowered, like a person who didnt develop physically in the womb would be disabled in this life.

If the dharmic religions are closer to the truth in terms of how the afterlife works (that is reincarnation is a thing) then the reason for earthly suffering is the playing out of karmic debt. Even so, both Hinduism and Buddhism still assert the existence of realms where sinners are punished for adharma. Suffering on Earth is not sufficient to expiate all sin.

 

[We Never Know]

John is driving home. Some mad at the world guy(Bill) swerved into his lane hitting him head on and killing him.

God didn't cause that nor did god stop that. It was freewill used by Bill(which god isnt supposed to interfere with) which was used badly by Bill and according to the bible he will have to answer to satan for it rather than god.
Good and bad exist simultaneously, equal out and can affect anyone.

I guess what im trying to say is we all supposedly have freewill.
Supposedly god and the devil aren't supposed to stop our freewill. They let people make their own choices. And the choices the people make will lead them to one or the other.

 

[danieldemol]

If the dharmic religions are closer to the truth in terms of how the afterlife works (that is reincarnation is a thing) then the reason for earthly suffering is the playing out of karmic debt. Even so, both Hinduism and Buddhism still assert the existence of realms where sinners are punished for adharma. Suffering on Earth is not sufficient to expiate all sin.

Why or how does suffering expiate debt?

 

[RestlessSoul]

The one thing we know about this life, is that nothing in it lasts, everything changes, everything is in flux. So the idea of hell, or heaven, lasting for eternity, makes no sense in this world; in which case, if there is another world or worlds beyond this one, why would eternity make sense there either?

Incidentally, images of hell that are prevalent in many Christian cultures come not from the Bible, but from two Renaissance poets; Dante Alighieri and John Milton. Both their visions of hell had exits and could be escaped from.

 

[RestlessSoul]

Why or how does suffering expiate debt?

We each make amends for the harms we have done others. This involves a certain amount of suffering on our part.

 

[Glaurung]

Why or how does suffering expiate debt?

Suffering is the price of sin. When undertaken voluntarily as penance, it is redemptive.

 

[danieldemol]

We each make amends for the harms we have done others. This involves a certain amount of suffering on our part.

So do you believe that setting yourself on fire will make amends for you setting someone else on fire? If so why?

 

[RestlessSoul]

So do you believe that setting yourself on fire will make amends for you setting someone else on fire? If so why?

No, I don't believe in starting fires unnecessarily.

Eternal fire, incidentally, is an oxymoron; fire needs fuel to burn, it deprives itself of the very thing it requires for it's existence. So it cannot ever last. Even the sun will burn itself out.

 

[Hockeycowboy]

Teachings like Hell”fire” should be eradicated.

All lies — religious or otherwise — will be, one day.

 

[Spirit of Light]

Im not much on religion but..... god doesn't set fire to people, satan does.
We all are born not knowing right from wrong, As we grow we learn and choose which what we do and follow. Sometimes we make people suffer by our choices. That's freewill.
So in the end its our freewill that leads to getting our arse burned or not.

Yaiks I fully agree with you who would know

 

[1213]

...
Would it not make sense to promote scepticism about irrational fears people have in an effort to undermine them and thus minimise fanaticism?...

I think better would be to grow out of fear. Fear itself is not bad, because it helps person to understand and can prevent person to hastily to make bad a choice. But, it is not good if it rules. And there is no reason to allow fear to rule.

For example, in the case of fear of hell. I think it would be good to understand that hell itself does nothing.

And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.
Matt. 10:28

In Biblical point of view, it would be reasonable to fear God rather than hell. But, God is good, He doesn’t do anything evil, so I don’t think there is good reason to fear Him, unless maybe if you are evil and do bad things. Even then, if you regret that you have done wrongly, there is forgiveness available. Only case when the hell comes possible for a person is that he is truly unrighteous and wants evil. But, would evil person fear hell? Would it be bad in that case?

There is no fear in love; but perfect love casts out fear, because fear has punishment. He who fears is not made perfect in love.
1 John 4:18

 

[Brian2]

It seems as though even if hell is not eternal in nature it still promotes an irrational fear in people and there are plenty of irrational fears that have lead to fanaticism.

Would it not make sense to promote scepticism about irrational fears people have in an effort to undermine them and thus minimise fanaticism?

To clarify im not talking about some sort of spiritual suffering which a person may experience even within there lifetime, I have in mind a literal hellfire which a person will burn or be physically tormented in for ages.

Thoughts?

Sounds like you are saying that Christianity is irrational.
That's fine, believe that if you want and promote scepticism if you want and as you do.
You may be doing it with good motives...................even if you are wrong.
Nevertheless it is views like your's which could rationally lead to the banning of Christianity or banning of speaking of God's judgement, as has happened in Communist countries.
If the attitude was adopted by those in power it would be the same attitude which say Christians of bygone days persecute those they considered heretics who did not believe the views of the persecutors.
That was wrong of course, which I think you would agree with.
But of course I know you aren't promoting such action but it is just what it could lead to with too many fanatical atheists in power as it did with too many fanatical Christians in power.
Not that you are fanatical but others no doubt are.