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Ever notice how atheists are virtually always on the opposite side from God on many issues?

Subduction Zone

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
Ostronomos said:
Oh, the irony. Atheism, being nothing more than a belief, belongs to the set of all false perceptions which are delusions. Since God has been proven using logic, and it was shown that logic IS reality, then God is ipso facto real.
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I do not think that you understand what atheism is. Or for that matter what logic or proof it. How has God ever been proven? I think that you made these claims earlier and ran away from them.
Ostronomos said:
It is granting the illogical atheistic position as true. Since mind=reality at the ultimate level of reality, then atheist belief creates a misunderstanding of reality, namely that God does not exist.
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Okay, how is atheism illogical? It seems to me to be the only logical position. And you got your definition of atheism wrong again.
Ostronomos said:
But we have already established God's existence as fact due to XYZ, so your argument that the OP is misleading falls flat on its face.
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No, you have claimed that you have not proven that.
Ostronomos said:
Yet Langan and I have proven the existence of God. So your claim is ipso facto false.
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When did you do this? Did you alert the presses? Because no one else has.
Ostronomos said:
It is not the theists that are committing the fallacy. Granted not all of them use logic in their arguments.
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I have not seen any logic coming from theists in this thread.
Ostronomos said:
I define atheism as a position which is based on the failure to go beyond the material illusion (either empirically or logically) and thus accepts the belief that the One true God is unreal. Therefore, the question "do atheists believe that God does not exist?" is perfectly valid.
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Well no wonder you got it wrong. Would you go to an atheist or a Muslim for a definition of Christianity? Think about it. The same standards exist.
Ostronomos said:
Again, Langan and I have logically proven to the entire world the empirical fact that God is real. All that remains is for the ignorant to open their eyes.
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Where? When? I think that you may be very very confused.
 
Subduction Zone

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
Ostronomos said:
I don't think all babies are evil. However, all babies are hardwired to believe in God, so they would answer yes.
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That is quite the claim. How are you going to support that? Babies do not appear to have any such hardwiring. Their beliefs as they grow older almost always mirror that of their parents until they can begin to reason rationally.
 
DNB

DNB

Christian
Windwalker said:
Am I?

Not what I am talking about.

No. Do the words subtle and nuanced mean anything?

I don't think I have ever said a rock is spiritual, per se. Albeit the whole of creation is an expression of the Divine itself, so in that sense it does manifest God. Surely, you've read the Bible where it speaks of the rocks crying out, no? Not sure about you, but that sounds like Jesus recognized the Divine in everything. "Consider the lilies of the field, for they neither toil nor spin, yet not even Solomon in all his glory was arrayed like any one of these". And you call me silly for simply hearing what Jesus himself saw in nature?

That's what this "convoluted nonsense" is about. And by the way, that certainly is not all I can talk about. But since you seem far less interested in understanding as opposed to simply being right in your own mind and others full of nonsense, as you call my words, you wouldn't understand the deeper principles when you call the basic simpler principles, those "lilies of the field", convoluted nonsense.
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For crying-out-load, you mis-interpreted every passage that you quoted.
'rocks crying out' is a figure of speech, obviously - my stars?
'..the lilies don't toil...' also refers to their inanimate, or non-sentient, or not self-determining aspect of their existence - their beauty was the point.
 
DNB

DNB

Christian
Evangelicalhumanist said:
I don't recognize a single one of those as "fact." In fact, all you can do is say they are facts, but you will not be able to show one iota of evidence for any of them -- while I can show plenty of evidence contradicting each and every one of them. "Facts" should be made of sterner stuff than that.
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You can show plenty of evidence that God does not exist?
After you....
 
DNB

DNB

Christian
Ella S. said:
This is indeed a fact-claim, although for it to be considered a fact it would have to be demonstrated to be true through logical argumentation. Facts are true descriptive statements.

This is a value-claim, which is distinct from a fact because it is an evaluative statement rather than a descriptive statement. This means it's closer to an opinion than a fact, although it might be relative to some particular standard. It's not the same type of statement that facts are.

This is a normative statement, which is also a distinct type of statement from a fact.

Another value-claim, so not a fact.

This is another fact-claim, like the first statement, it would also have to be demonstrated to be true to be considered a fact.

I'm not sure if you mean this in this sense that he is literally a ruler or if you mean that he "rules" in the sense that he's... jive or hip or whatever the kids call it these days. I'm going to say that this one is ambiguously worded because of that. If it's the former, it's a fact-claim, but if it's the latter, then it's a value-claim.

So out of your 6 supposed facts, only 2 of them clearly qualify as fact-claims, which is at least a 67% error rate before we even account for whether these two statements can be classified as true or not.

I think it makes sense for you to call fact-claims that you believe are true "facts." I think it's worth pointing out that the truth of these statements is controversial and subject to debate, but as long as you can make arguments to support them, that's what this section of the forum is for.

I thought someone should tell you that you seem to be misusing the word "fact," and that's regardless of whether your statements are true or not. Personally, outside of "man is wicked," I think every single statement you made in this post is false, so I don't think you listed a single fact, but it's of a greater concern to me that you seem to not even know what a fact is.
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Fact: your pedantic, like seriously
 
Subduction Zone

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
DNB said:
You can show plenty of evidence that God does not exist?
After you....
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He may be able to, but there is no need for him to do that. You were just complaining about someone else not understanding? He was pointing out that none of the claims were facts.
 
DNB

DNB

Christian
F1fan said:
There are over 200 creator gods in human history. You should do your homework. The creator gods of the Hawaiian Islands are very interesting.
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Oh, I think that you just convinced me that no homework is necessary - stick to car racing
 
Valjean

Valjean

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Windwalker said:
Do you believe God does not exist? It's a simple yes or no question.
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OK, at what level of reality, if you want to get down to the nitty-gritty.
Reality is different at different levels.

In this discussion, I've been speaking from 3rd-state.
 
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