Ever notice how atheists are virtually always on the opposite side from God on many issues?

[Ostronomos]

False. It is an explanation of how nature works, namely the human brian and evolution. Your bias and indifference to knowledge is your `problem. Do you ever question your bias against science and why you have decided to see it as incorrect?

What "higher reality of the cosmos? Define this idea, and explain how it is true and based on fact. And how is something that is a reality of the cosmos a limited global entity? More woo woo talk that means nothing?

Why assume there was an origin? Why assume it was created?

The Big Bang theory is creationism masquerading as science. All scientists accept the Big Bang theory as the only logical explanation to the origins of spacetime, which can only be intrinsic since there is logically nothing outside of the universe. This trend in science supports creationism. Or at least a scientific version.

The more closely we look at science the more religious we become. Because it instills a sense of awe and mystery that is logically inescapable.

It is just a mechanism of energy/matter and the laws of the material universe.

The material universe is only a small part of the reality self-simulation. It is a grand illusion.

If you believe there is more to it, then expalin it and use facts and expert references.

Look up Reality Self-Simulation Principle by Christopher Langan. I was able to follow most of his thesis, so it shouldn't be a problem for you. It took years for his theory to be accepted by the scientific community. This is because he makes lofty claims that have escaped the scientific method.

Why do you still cling to primitive beliefs about material illusion and Newtonian Physics. We are living in a post-Quantum age.

In my experience with creationists since 1996 your tribe will not show their beliefs have any basis in reality, only bad interpretations of religious books and personal experience. So I predict you will post more irrational statements without any evidence.

There is a first for everything.

I thought you rejected evolution. Are you accepting that nature is godless and functions as it does via natural cause and effect?

No. I accept that evolution is 100% compatible with the idea of a Creator.

I doubt you understand this, as it only works if evolution is a real phenomenon. And it makes no reference to any gods, so how does that work with your religious beliefs?

Please don't insult me. I am not your typical theist. I actually have logic and empirical evidence to back up my claims.

 

[Ostronomos]

Really? What are the facts and data you use to make this realization? Thus far no gods are known to exist outside of human imagination.

How can it be a "real God" but still just be referred to as a possibility? It can't be both. Thus far there is no God that is scientifiic. Supernatural is synonymous with imaginary, BTW.

A fool's errand. You should read Christopher Langan. He makes revolutionary claims and actually uses logic to back them up.

Only if you are referring to how we humans are influenced to conform to the norms of religious belief. Most humans are indoctrinated to believe only because others are beliving and the ideas are adoted without reason being applied to them.

Rest assured that Langan and I have proven using logic that a God is real. The universal consciousness. The alpha and omega.

You simply delude yourself by not thinking logically.

We humans acquire many ideas this way, but most serve a purpose as we navigate life, like language and signs/symbols. As we know a select few do question the religious ideas we are exposed to, and investigate why these are so prevalent. This is why atheists exist among many believers. No believer can explain why they believe versus don't believe. They just do, like robots.

It is fair to say that most believers do so due to what their subconscious directs. No believer comes to a rational conclusion that a god exists via facts and reasoning, they believe for biological and social reasons. Are most capable of rejecting belief? I'm not sure, many seem highly dependent and unable to look beyond religious belief.

That is your flawed perspective from a biased and might I add, imperfect reasoning.

 

[DNB]

It happens, because theists' posts are so full with false claims, false rewards or punishment and false notions about nature.

God exists, as does His son Jesus Christ.
Your view of mankind and the universe is rather superficial.

 

[DNB]

Nothing special about humans too. They have been killing each other and other animals since they appeared on earth. That is the way of the world for all carnivorous animals. Man is the worst among them, killing beyond what is for food.
Animals too have all the emotions that humans have.

Animals do not have all the emotions, desires, contemplations or cognizance that humans have - they eat, sleep, defecate, and procreate, and that's it!

 

[DNB]

More like claiming to be the final arbiter in my view.

All empty claims which you haven't demonstrated in my view.

The source of your claim to be the final arbiter is you - a source that i have considered highly unreliable in my view.

No, it simply becomes incumbent on those 90% of people to demonstrate the proof instead of using fallacious ad-populum arguments rounded off with ad-hominem in my view.

Besides, 90% of all mankind dont recognise you as the final arbiter anyway in my view.

I am the arbitrator between you and I, was my proposition.
You're kicking against the goads. And, as I have declared before, you constantly miss the point - in the proper context of debate, ad-populum has the utmost significance - where did such a propensity in man come from?

 

[Subduction Zone]

The Big Bang theory is creationism masquerading as science. All scientists accept the Big Bang theory as the only logical explanation to the origins of spacetime, which can only be intrinsic since there is logically nothing outside of the universe. This trend in science supports creationism. Or at least a scientific version.

The more closely we look at science the more religious we become. Because it instills a sense of awe and mystery that is logically inescapable.

No, this only demonstrates that you do not understand what science is or how it is done. The Big Bang is a very successful theory. Creationism is untestable pseudoscience. The Big Bang Theory is testable. It is falsifiable. A proper hypothesis or theory can be used to make predictions and it is tested by those predictions. The predictions that were made by the Big Bang Theory have been confirmed.

The material universe is only a small part of the reality self-simulation. It is a grand illusion.

Look up Reality Self-Simulation Principle by Christopher Langan. I was able to follow most of his thesis, so it shouldn't be a problem for you. It took years for his theory to be accepted by the scientific community. This is because he makes lofty claims that have escaped the scientific method.

What makes you think that Langan's idea has ben accepted? He appears to have a bit of a following, but so what? Langan is unfortunately largely self educated and appears to have a bit of a chip on his shoulder. He appears to appeal to other people that resent higher education as well.

Why do you still cling to primitive beliefs about material illusion and Newtonian Physics. We are living in a post-Quantum age.

Newtonian physics still works for over 99% of the problems applied to it. Yes, there are times when quantum effects must be accounted for, but those are rare. Knowing when to use the appropriate tool is part of wisdom. We do not throw away Newton because his physics do not work on the extremes of quantum mechanics or relativity.

There is a first for everything.


No. I accept that evolution is 100% compatible with the idea of a Creator.

Please don't insult me. I am not your typical theist. I actually have logic and empirical evidence to back up my claims.

So far we have only seen claims of logic and evidence. None has been presented. Why don't you ever post any of this supposed evidence?

 

[Subduction Zone]

Animals do not have all the emotions, desires, contemplations or cognizance that humans have - the eat, sleep, defecate, and procreate, and that's it!

Wow! You might want to check your own empathy. It appears to be almost nonexistent. There are countless cases of animals demonstrating emotions. Desires, and even "contemplations". Yes, humans have a very well developed brain so ours tend to be deeper. But do not pretend that they do not exist elsewhere in the animal kingdom.

 

[DNB]

Words overwhelm you, don't they? You've called another poster pedantic because she writes over your head, and me verbose because you seem to like simple thoughts. But words are how critical thinkers develop arguments. You skip that and just make unevidenced, unargued claims, so naturally your posting is simplistic by contrast.

An empty claim that can't be supported and shouldn't be believed. Furthermore, man has almost nothing in common with the god of the Old Testament. Here's a post I left elsewhere that summarizes God's image. Perhaps you can tell me how many of these boxes man ticks [trigger warning - contains dozens of words]:

"According to dogma, your god is invisible, immaterial, immortal, perfect, infinite, lives outside of space and precedes time. Your god is omniscient, omnipresent, supernatural and has magical power. Your god never had a spouse, never had sex, never experienced lust, divorce or a broken heart. Your god was never born, never had parents, never raised children and never had a sibling or a friend. Your god has never slept or had a nightmare, never had a headache, has never had the flu, felt hot or cold or been hungry. Your god has never had to support himself, never had to study or learn. never been humiliated, felt guilt, blame or shame, and has never been afraid."

Your god has virtually nothing in common with me. Maybe you'd say reason and a moral compass is what makes man like your god. I've read the flood story, so that pretty much eliminates that deity being either moral or intelligent. It drowned all terrestrial life to correct its own engineering failure and then used the same breeding stock to repopulate the earth. How smart or moral shall we consider such a deity? It fails on both counts by humanist standards.

But you are only the arbiter for yourself. I claim that he runs circles around you. So does Ella. I've seen what passes for wisdom from you - just unfalsifiable claims.

A wise, mature person doesn't write like that. It demeans him, which further undermines his ethos, or how he is viewed by others. Think of Trump blowing his own horn. "I'm the only one who can fix the problem. I'm a stable genius." No, he's a laughingstock. You might want to think about that before emulating it.

Not one fact there, and a fine example of what you called, "insight and perception." And I'd hardly call that deity merciful. Or loving. Or just. Once again, this whole hell thing fails by humanist standards. Loving, just, and merciful agents don't build torture chambers to make people suffer for rejecting them. Again, we're back to Trumpism.

Too many points to address them all.


After enumerating all the attributes of God, namely His transcendence and non-corporeal essence, you went and compared every singular anatomical aspect of man with God, attempting to dispel the belief that there are any commonalities between the two beings?
Like, seriously?

God is moral, abhors evil, is holy and just, wise and prudent, loving and compassionate. He knows of, and understands, evil - its source, consequences, vices, allurements, depravity, futility and irrationality. Man also has such a cognizance of spiritual matters - no other creature on the planet shares that endowment with humans.
Man shares

 

[DNB]

Of course they are, absolutely.

But transcendent and divine =/= all-powerful.

Deities are larger than life, and powerful beings. But like us, even they have limits.

Well how can one create the entire universe and not be all powerful, as far as being capable in handling and maintaining all aspects that pertain to life on this planet? That is, as far as this conversation that we're having is concerned?

 

[DNB]

So you are ignoring everything I pointed out from scripture in support of my views because of your personal interpretation of this one verse of scripture and this one word that is anything but clear in its meaning? I'm well aware of that verse as well, but I don't believe "image of God", should be taken to mean that only humans are "spiritual". The verse simply doesn't support that meaning.

No, what I see is that you just imagine humans are superior in every way to animals, and probably even deny that we ourselves are in fact an animal species as well. I've known many religionists who are troubled by this fact. I think it's sad they are. To me, the "I am superior" attitude is the antithesis of spirituality which is predicated upon humility.

And yet, if spirituality means "wisdom, prudence, and restraint over natural urges", as if spirituality were an accomplishment, then can you explain why Jesus tells us that unless we become as a little child we will be incapable of seeing the kingdom of God?

So, you think God just created all other creatures for man's use? I'm not sure if you are a reality denier when it comes to things like prehistoric ages when dinosaurs roamed the earth for millions of years before humans came along, but if you do accept these facts, then pray tell how the facts of earth history support this notion that all other creatures are for man's use. What about even those animals man has no idea even exists, or hase access to. What are they doing there then?

I don't see spirituality as a matter of 'contemplation', as much as it is a condition of being. Spirituality is the natural state of all life, regardless of consciously thinking about it or not.

The contemplative life, that of the mystic or any person on a spiritual path, is about stripping away those mental obstacles of the mind that obscure that natural, base or default condition of spirituality of what and who we really are. "Finding God", is finding that very ground of our own being, which is the Source of all of creation and existence of all that is. "Except you become as a little child, you shall in no wise enter into the kingdom of God," or one's inherent spiritual condition.

Spirituality is not something outside of ourselves we attain. It is our inherent condition we struggle to expose again, like it is in a little child before it gets covered with the rubble of our "sin" that gets heaped upon it as we fall from paradise into the world of thorns and thistles, being expelled from that Garden into adult life and its world systems.

Animals do love. Have you ever had a dog as part of your life? I would very much argue you are very wrong. But don't confused sophistication, with a lack of love. "Except you be as a little child, you shall in no wise see, or enter into the kingdom of God". The Truth is found in simplicity.

Non humans were created for man, whether man is within their environment or not. They, in some manner or another, maintain the earth, the atmosphere, the soil, plantation and vegetation, the life cycles of other animals, etc...

 

[The Hammer]

Well how can one create the entire universe and not be all powerful, as far as being capable in handling and maintaining all aspects that pertain to life on this planet? That is, as far as this conversation that we're having is concerned?

Like I said, have you ever watched the end credits of a movie, TV show, video game? How many people are credited with that Creation?

Typically.more than 1.

 

[The Hammer]

how can one create the entire universe and not be all powerful, as far as being capable in handling and maintaining all aspects that pertain to life on this planet?

This isn't necessary in most religions. Abrahamic faiths are the exception to the norm.

 

[Subduction Zone]

This isn't necessary in most religions. Abrahamic faiths are the exception to the norm.

The question is why does he think that omnipotence is required? Anyone that can reason rationally knows that a combination of omnipotence and omniscience means that for any wrong that God is ultimately to blame. Omnipotence and omniscience are traits one does not one's god or gods to have.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Well how can one create the entire universe and not be all powerful, as far as being capable in handling and maintaining all aspects that pertain to life on this planet? That is, as far as this conversation that we're having is concerned?

How many things are built that only have one person who makes them? Even just the design is often multiple people.

 

[Windwalker]

Non humans were created for man, whether man is within their environment or not. They, in some manner or another, maintain the earth, the atmosphere, the soil, plantation and vegetation, the life cycles of other animals, etc...

It's all for us, the very apple of God's eye, the pinnacle of his creation, right? And more specifically, it's for those who join the right religion and the join the right church and believe the right beliefs. I am the very heart and center of God's great universe. It is all for me!! In other words.

Kind of sounds like what a five year old believes about how that the whole of creation centers around themselves. I don't hear humility in any measure whatsoever there. I'm more special than all of the rest of God's creation!! I am above them all! I mean, seriously.

 

[DNB]

Like I said, have you ever watched the end credits of a movie, TV show, video game? How many people are credited with that Creation?

Typically.more than 1.

I have absolutely no idea where you're coming from right now?
And, personally, I'm not interested.

 

[DNB]

This isn't necessary in most religions. Abrahamic faiths are the exception to the norm.

I'm talking about plausibility, rationality, and reality.

 

[DNB]

How many things are built that only have one person who makes them? Even just the design is often multiple people.

Everyone's a comedian all of a sudden.
....maybe not so suddenly.

 

[DNB]

It's all for us, the very apple of God's eye, the pinnacle of his creation, right? And more specifically, it's for those who join the right religion and the join the right church and believe the right beliefs. I am the very heart and center of God's great universe. It is all for me!! In other words.

Kind of sounds like what a five year old believes about how that the whole of creation centers around themselves. I don't hear humility in any measure whatsoever there. I'm more special than all of the rest of God's creation!! I am above them all! I mean, seriously.

Yes, man is the center of the universe - we finally agree, ...at least your first paragraph.

 

[The Hammer]

I'm talking about plausibility, rationality, and reality.

You too?