Everything we pay for is leisure

[Kerr]

nnmartin, would you kindly clarify what you mean by leisure?

 

[blackout]

Thanks. I am not sure I would say that I train martial arts for the sake of leisure, I train it because I love it, even if its painful and hard work.

You could honestly say that you do it in your leisure time, though.

You have free time from the work of life's DEMANDS,
and you choose to use that ('free') time for martial arts.

 

[InformedIgnorance]

To be honest comfort/satisfaction would be a far more fitting term to use than leisure; to in which case pretty much anything we do (let alone pay for) is to enhance or maintain out comfort/satisfaction. (which would extend to things we do due to our values and so forth, because that would be to avoid discontent or satisfy our psychological needs)

 

[Kerr]

You could honestly say that you do it in your leisure time, though.

You have free time from the work of life's DEMANDS,
and you choose to use that ('free') time for martial arts.

Its in my leisure time, but I dont do it for the actual sake of leisure. There is a difference between the two.

If I was just after leisure I would just sit and play a relaxing game or something rather then to go to martial arts and do all sort of rather painful exercises.

 

[Hevenly Heathen]

Why do you practice Martial Arts?

 

[Kerr]

Why do you practice Martial Arts?

Because I love it. I started to just try it out. In my teens I felt rather miserable and depressed and martial arts gave me something to hold on to. I just wanted my black belt and then I could kill myself. Now I dont feel that way anymore, but I have grown rather attached to it.

 

[Hevenly Heathen]

To be able to try something with your 'free' time - and enjoying it - sounds like leisure to me
I guess a better question would be: what do you get out of it?

But it does raise a question: if something becomes an obligation, does that mean we don't do it leisurely?

 

[Erebus]

This would seem to be a case of delayed gratification.

We hope for a degree in order to earn future riches to allow us to fulfill our potential as self-gratifyers.

However, for most people, education is a form of leisure because we are paying for a service that we don't necessarily need.

I see what you're saying, but I still disagree that it's purely pursuit of leisure per se. Higher education could arguably be considered a luxury, but generally speaking it isn't leisurely

Sure the student life in the first year can be a lot of fun and some people drop out afterwards since it's all they really wanted from university. Still, I believe in education for its own sake and wouldn't have continued my degree otherwise. Furthermore if wealth was a primary motivator there are better degrees I could have taken in terms of future employability.

I can't help but think that fundamentally we're in agreement though. We want time for enjoyment, we want gratification and these are significant motivations for most people. However I feel these aren't the only reasons we work, learn and consume. You also have to consider survival, cultural expectations, personal philosophy and desire for respectability to name a few.

 

[Kerr]

To be able to try something with your 'free' time - and enjoying it - sounds like leisure to me
I guess a better question would be: what do you get out of it?

But it does raise a question: if something becomes an obligation, does that mean we don't do it leisurely?

Its free time, sure. Never said otherwise. I just dont do it for the actual sake of leisure (i.e. trying to fill my free time or something like that).

As for what I gain, there are many things. It helps me developing my body control for one (for example I have had some issues with knowing where I have my arms and legs, which is much better now partly due to martial arts). It challenges me and helps me develop as a person.

 

[nnmartin]

nnmartin, would you kindly clarify what you mean by leisure?

pleasure, enjoyment, freedom from work , luxury etc..

 

[Kerr]

pleasure, enjoyment, freedom from work , luxury etc..

In that case, I strongly disagree. There are for examples basic needs that need to be furfilled for our own survival. Food comes to mind. So buying food would not fall into that category because if we stop eating we die.

 

[Hevenly Heathen]

You've just contradicted yourself. Could you be more specific? Or am I correct in assuming that leisure contains those times when your time is not taken by something which needs to be done and is open for those things one chooses to do and therefore more of a hobby time?

 

[nnmartin]

not necessarily because work can be a form of leisure to some if they really enjoy it.

And also, it is possible to be working whilst having a leisurely moment at the same time, such as smoking a cigarette on the job.

but back to the OP which is saying, in general, that paying for something is nearly always a form of leisure/pleasure.

 

[nnmartin]

In that case, I strongly disagree. There are for examples basic needs that need to be furfilled for our own survival. Food comes to mind. So buying food would not fall into that category because if we stop eating we die.

The eating of food is generally considered to be a pleasant leisurely activity, or it certainly can be if one is hungry enough and that usually comes down to the level of one's wealth.

 

[Kerr]

The eating of food is generally considered to be a pleasant leisurely activity, or it certainly can be if one is hungry enough and that usually comes down to the level of one's wealth.

That we can enjoy food doesnt mean we always buy food for leisure. Have you never been in a situation where you had to eat something you didnt like?

 

[Hevenly Heathen]

The OP makes the assumption that everything paid for is leisure. Now you state nearly always... Is there a renunciation coming on , haha.

It still seems to me you are striving to tie everything that is not necessary, which you won't illustrate, as leisure, which you have only vaguely illustrated.

Leisure in the most general definition is to do things in one's own time, which implies that it would be done when one feels good and ready. Leisure activities are generally accepted as activities one does when there is free time, ie. time away from duties and activities for survival.

 

[cablescavenger]

It seems to be that paying for anything is a form of leisure.

Paying for anything can be summed up as 'the enjoyment, pursuit or continuance of leisure'.

So when we pay the rent, utilities, food bills or even a parking ticket then it all falls under this umbrella.

The same can be said for any form of private education, including university.

Now, what this means is that, fundamentally, people are only concerned about pleasing themselves and hiding behind artificial smoke screens of supposed righteousness, industry and drive, in order to fulfill their desires for leisure.

So can anyone think of something which they pay for that does not fall into this category?

That will be why funerals are so expensive then, eternal sleep must come with a premium.

 

[nnmartin]

That we can enjoy food doesnt mean we always buy food for leisure. Have you never been in a situation where you had to eat something you didnt like?

yes, of course , but I would be unlikely to buy a food item that I didn't like.

If purchasing by mistake or for someone else then it would come under the pursuit of leisure.

 

[nnmartin]

The OP makes the assumption that everything paid for is leisure. Now you state nearly always... Is there a renunciation coming on , haha.

Not at all, I even came up with a couple of possible exceptions to the rule myself earlier, namely funerals and insurance.

However I did then go on to give possible refutations to those examples by mentioning that 'peace of mind' may well constitute a form of leisure.

We must also remember that 'leisure' can mean psychological freedom from work - this is a form of pleasure.

We may work and daydream at the same time whilst listening to music - free leisure and mental freedom whilst laboring.

 

[Kerr]

yes, of course , but I would be unlikely to buy a food item that I didn't like.

If purchasing by mistake or for someone else then it would come under the pursuit of leisure.

But sometimes you have to do that, which is my point.