Evidence for a Young Earth (Not Billions of Years Old)

[Hockeycowboy]

"The injectisome is found in a small subset of gram-negative bacteria that have a symbiotic or parasitic association with eukaryotes. Since eukaryotes evolved over a billion years after bacteria, this suggests that the injectisome arose after eukaryotes. However, flagella are found across the range of bacteria, and the need for chemotaxis and motility (i.e., using the flagellum to find food) precede the need for parasitism. In other words, we’d expect that the flagellum long predates the injectisome. And indeed, given the narrow distribution of injectisome-bearing bacteria, and the very wide distribution of bacteria with flagella, parsimony suggests the flagellum long predates injectisome rather than the reverse. "

Can you show where the article stipulates a "devolving of the b.f."?

Because the Type III Secretory System arose after the b.f.

So if they are related, the b.f. lost information...it didn't develop new information.

 

[We Never Know]

Something more than zero I guess.
Did you learn that there are no human-animal
hybrids?

Chimera is more accurate.

Human-Pig Hybrid Created in the Lab—Here Are the Facts

 

[Audie]

Chimera is more accurate.

Human-Pig Hybrid Created in the Lab—Here Are the Facts

I will start getting up earlier in the morning.

 

[tas8831]

Hey, this is a cool Gish Gallop! Where did you paraphrase/copy this all from?

Skeptics say the head in the carving is too big to be a Stegosaurus. You be the judge:

OK.

View attachment 26405

Yup. Head too large. Proportions way off.
Not a stegosaurus. Just the musings of the desperate and under-informed.

 

[Audie]

Hey, this is a cool Gish Gallop! Where did you paraphrase/copy this all from?OK.

Yup. Head too large. Proportions way off.
Not a stegosaurus. Just the musings of the desperate and under-informed.

Other carvings nearby show that same motif which is
interpreted as the back-plates of Stego.

Maybe try Ica stones.

 

[Jose Fly]

Because the Type III Secretory System arose after the b.f.

So if they are related, the b.f. lost information...it didn't develop new information.

Even if true, so what? It still shows that flagella are evolvable, correct?

 

[ecco]

ecco said: ↑​

Can you show where the article stipulates a "devolving of the b.f."?

Because the Type III Secretory System arose after the b.f.

So if they are related, the b.f. lost information...it didn't develop new information.

We have BF. Along comes T3SS. Why do you (the article) say the BF lost information.

 

[Audie]

ecco said: ↑​

Can you show where the article stipulates a "devolving of the b.f."?


We have BF. Along comes T3SS. Why do you (the article) say the BF lost information.

This is where the water gets up above the ankles
for those wading out where the do not know
what they are talking about.

I recommend a hymn.

 

[tas8831]

Other carvings nearby show that same motif which is
interpreted as the back-plates of Stego.

Maybe try Ica stones.

I have read (don't remember where) that the 'plates' motif is a decoration of sorts, akin to the middle ages paintings of religious figures all with halos around their heads.

 

[Audie]

I have read (don't remember where) that the 'plates' motif is a decoration of sorts, akin to the middle ages paintings of religious figures all with halos around their heads.

Even in a photo of that one "stego" carving, you can
see other uses of that same design.

It is an intriguing effect, but I think our creationist friends
make themselves look foolish, getting too attached to
that bit of proof for their pet ideas.

 

[ecco]

... but I think our creationist friends
make themselves look foolish, getting too attached to
that bit of proof for their pet ideas.

Apparently Ken Hamm leaves his pet Stego out by the barn.

However, inside we see JC and his pet T...

 

[tas8831]

ftacky seems adept at starting spam-trolling threads, but he doesn't seem to stick around very long in them when his Gish Gallop assertions start getting refuted.

 

[Jose Fly]

ftacky seems adept at starting spam-trolling threads, but he doesn't seem to stick around very long in them when his Gish Gallop assertions start getting refuted.

Pretty much every internet creationist ever......make a bunch of assertions, dodge and evade questions and rebuttals, and leave. Then wait a few days or weeks and do it all over again as if nothing had ever happened.

 

[Hotcakes78]

1) Genesis tells us God created all animals (dinos included) and humans in the same week. God created an already mature creation with adult humans, mature fruit-bearing trees, and starlight already reaching earth to be appreciated by Adam even though the stars are located billions of light-years away.

2) Using the various Biblical genealogies and documented lifetimes, it appears the earth is about 6000 - 7000 years old.

3) There is no error-free way to date the age of ancient items such as rocks, etc.. Various radiometric dating methods ALWAYS include multiple NON-provable steady-state assumptions in the calculations. This is why volcanic debris has been dated as millions of years old when it actually formed on a known date of an eruption - and submitted to the lab by the witness of the eruption to PROVE the erroneous nature of the calculations.

4) The same erroneous steady-state type assumptions to date stalactites have us believe they can be over 100,000 years old when we see them hanging from cave ceilings. However, stalactites over 7 feet long have grown under the Lincoln Memorial which was built in 1922.

5) Comets have a life span of up to 30 thousand years (max) by getting smaller as they lose mass in their 'tail' as they travel thru space. This contradicts the idea that comets started life along with the rest of the universe 14 billion years ago. So noticing the error, atheist scientists now claim new comets fly out of the Oort cloud. However, nobody has ever observed a comet originate in the Oort cloud, nor from any other area of the universe for that matter. No scientist has ever seen a new comet form anywhere.

6) The 12th Century Prohm Temple in Cambodia has a Stegosaurus carved into the pillar. Did they do this because they saw one? The other animals carved into the pillar are modern animals so there is no reason to believe they didn't see the Stegosaurus. Skeptics say the head in the carving is too big to be a Stegosaurus. You be the judge:
View attachment 26405

7) There are various dino / human mud-footprint overlaps - are they genuine or hoaxes? Here are a few:
See Creationist site: genesispark.com

Delk Print:View attachment 26407

Feminine Print:View attachment 26408

8) There are numerous modern man made objects which have been found encased in rock, thus proving rocks cannot be millions of years old: hammer with wooden handle, screw, spark plug, electrical plug, vase, etc.

9) The Nampa Figurine: In 1889 a clay doll was brought up by a well drill from a depth of 320 feet. The figurine was found under several different strata including fifteen feet of lava basalt. According to standard evolutionary thinking, the stratum at this depth is about 2 million years old.
View attachment 26409

10) Preserved T-Rex soft tissue bone marrow was discovered when a T-Rex bone was accidentally dropped and broken open. The dark soft tissue material was scooped out and re-hydrated using a mild acid solution to plump it up. When put under a microscope, much to the surprise of evolutionist researchers, they saw FLEXIBLE blood vessels and Red Blood Cells! Here are some article and quotes:

"Soft tissues are preserved within hindlimb elements of Tyrannosaurus rex (Museum of the Rockies specimen 1125). Removal of the mineral phase reveals transparent, flexible, hollow blood vessels containing small round microstructures that can be expressed from the vessels into solution. Some regions of demineralized bone matrix are highly fibrous, and the matrix possesses elasticity and resilience. Thus, some dinosaurian soft tissues may retain some of their original flexibility, elasticity, and resilience." (2005, 307:1952).

“There is still so much about ancient soft tissues that we do not understand. Why are these materials preserved when all our models say they should be degraded?” Mary H. Schweitzer, “Blood from Stone,” Scientific American, Vol. 303, December 2010, p. 69.

When Schweitzer reported her discovery to Horner, he replied, “Mary, the freaking creationists are just going to love you.” Schweitzer replied, “Jack, its your dinosaur.” [See Jack Horner and James Gorman, How to Build a Dinosaur (New York: Penguin Group, 2009), pp. 80–81.

“‘I am quite aware that according to conventional wisdom and models of fossilization, these structures aren’t supposed to be there, but there they are,’ said Schweitzer, lead author of the paper. ‘I was pretty shocked.’” Evelyn Boswell, “Montana T. Rex Yields Next Big Discovery in Dinosaur Paleontology,” Montana State University News Service, 24 March 2005, p. 1.

“Soft tissues are preserved within hindlimb elements of Tyrannosaurus rex (Museum of the Rockies specimen 1125). Removal of the mineral phase reveals transparent, flexible, hollow blood vessels...” Mary H. Schweitzer et al., “Soft-Tissue Vessels and Cellular Preservation in Tyrannosaurus Rex,” Science, Vol. 307, 25 March 2005, p. 1952.

“‘I got goose bumps,’ recalls [Mary] Schweitzer. ‘It was exactly like looking at a slice of modern bone. But, of course, I couldn’t believe it. I said to the lab technician: The bones, after all, are 65 million years old. How could blood cells survive that long?’” Virginia Morell, Dino DNA: The Hunt and the Hype,” Science, Vol. 261, 9 July 1993, p. 160.

11) In addition, there have been numerous similar findings since then:

Researchers have found a reason for the puzzling survival of soft tissue and collagen in dinosaur bones - the bones are younger than anyone ever guessed. Carbon-14 (C-14) dating of multiple samples of bone from 8 dinosaurs from Texas, Alaska, Colorado, and Montana revealed that they are only 22,000 to 39,000 years old. Since dinosaurs are thought to be over 65 million years old, the news is stunning. The researchers presented their findings at the 2012 Western Pacific Geophysics Meeting in Singapore, August 13-17, a conference of the American Geophysical Union (AGU) and the Asia Oceania Geosciences Society (AOGS).

12) Debunking Skeptics: Skeptics have tried to debunk the preserved dino tissue by saying that iron acted as a preservative. However, iron is always found in blood and bone marrow and has never been shown to preserve blood. Just try to bury a cow, dig it up 10 years later and see how flexible the blood vessels are, right? There will be NO MORE COW after 10 years.

Wishing evidence will go away is not debunking it. Google it - tons of articles today on preserved dino soft tissue. Preserved flexible blood vessels and blood cells out of a T-rex bone will not simply go away just because ATHEISTS wish it would go away.

They have pictures of microscope shots SHOWING the vessels and red blood cells. It is definitely PRESERVED SOFT TISSUE AND BLOOD CELLS from a T-Rex. Thoroughly genuine find, not to mention other similar finds from a Hadrosaur. Too many secular sources on the net to deny its reality at this point. Pathetic to even try. Nothing is 'debunked' from an unwillingness to see the evidence. You cannot wish it to go away - the proof is staring at you.

Thank You Lord for showing us Your Word is true, and may You work in the hearts and minds of those in rebellion, that some may be saved, in Jesus Name!

Wow, are you really trying to use the Bible as a basis for scientific fact?

 

[Sapiens]

1) Genesis tells us God created all animals (dinos included) and humans in the same week. God created an already mature creation with adult humans, mature fruit-bearing trees, and starlight already reaching earth to be appreciated by Adam even though the stars are located billions of light-years away.

Clearly the fairy tale is, unh ... a fairy.

2) Using the various Biblical genealogies and documented lifetimes, it appears the earth is about 6000 - 7000 years old.

Clearly your conclusion fits the data, but your data is garbage.

3) There is no error-free way to date the age of ancient items such as rocks, etc.. Various radiometric dating methods ALWAYS include multiple NON-provable steady-state assumptions in the calculations. This is why volcanic debris has been dated as millions of years old when it actually formed on a known date of an eruption - and submitted to the lab by the witness of the eruption to PROVE the erroneous nature of the calculations.

Please endeavor to read up on radiometric dating and supply data supporting your claim of a non-steady state.

4) The same erroneous steady-state type assumptions to date stalactites have us believe they can be over 100,000 years old when we see them hanging from cave ceilings. However, stalactites over 7 feet long have grown under the Lincoln Memorial which was built in 1922.

Clearly the environs under the memorial are not the same as those in an isolated cave.

5) Comets have a life span of up to 30 thousand years (max) by getting smaller as they lose mass in their 'tail' as they travel thru space. This contradicts the idea that comets started life along with the rest of the universe 14 billion years ago. So noticing the error, atheist scientists now claim new comets fly out of the Oort cloud. However, nobody has ever observed a comet originate in the Oort cloud, nor from any other area of the universe for that matter. No scientist has ever seen a new comet form anywhere.

Oort cloud origins match the available data without contradiction.

6) The 12th Century Prohm Temple in Cambodia has a Stegosaurus carved into the pillar. Did they do this because they saw one? The other animals carved into the pillar are modern animals so there is no reason to believe they didn't see the Stegosaurus. Skeptics say the head in the carving is too big to be a Stegosaurus. You be the judge:
View attachment 26405

I adjudge it to be a pangolin.

7) There are various dino / human mud-footprint overlaps - are they genuine or hoaxes? Here are a few:
See Creationist site: genesispark.com

Delk Print:View attachment 26407

Feminine Print:View attachment 26408

All dino/human footprints have been well and completely debunked.

8) There are numerous modern man made objects which have been found encased in rock, thus proving rocks cannot be millions of years old: hammer with wooden handle, screw, spark plug, electrical plug, vase, etc.

The concretion itself surrounding the object is not ancient. Minerals in solution harden around an intrusive object dropped in a crack or simply left on the ground if the source rock is chemically soluble

9) The Nampa Figurine: In 1889 a clay doll was brought up by a well drill from a depth of 320 feet. The figurine was found under several different strata including fifteen feet of lava basalt. According to standard evolutionary thinking, the stratum at this depth is about 2 million years old.
View attachment 26409

Likely pushed ahead of the drill prior to recovery.

10) Preserved T-Rex soft tissue bone marrow was discovered when a T-Rex bone was accidentally dropped and broken open. The dark soft tissue material was scooped out and re-hydrated using a mild acid solution to plump it up. When put under a microscope, much to the surprise of evolutionist researchers, they saw FLEXIBLE blood vessels and Red Blood Cells! Here are some article and quotes:

"Soft tissues are preserved within hindlimb elements of Tyrannosaurus rex (Museum of the Rockies specimen 1125). Removal of the mineral phase reveals transparent, flexible, hollow blood vessels containing small round microstructures that can be expressed from the vessels into solution. Some regions of demineralized bone matrix are highly fibrous, and the matrix possesses elasticity and resilience. Thus, some dinosaurian soft tissues may retain some of their original flexibility, elasticity, and resilience." (2005, 307:1952).

“There is still so much about ancient soft tissues that we do not understand. Why are these materials preserved when all our models say they should be degraded?” Mary H. Schweitzer, “Blood from Stone,” Scientific American, Vol. 303, December 2010, p. 69.

When Schweitzer reported her discovery to Horner, he replied, “Mary, the freaking creationists are just going to love you.” Schweitzer replied, “Jack, its your dinosaur.” [See Jack Horner and James Gorman, How to Build a Dinosaur (New York: Penguin Group, 2009), pp. 80–81.

“‘I am quite aware that according to conventional wisdom and models of fossilization, these structures aren’t supposed to be there, but there they are,’ said Schweitzer, lead author of the paper. ‘I was pretty shocked.’” Evelyn Boswell, “Montana T. Rex Yields Next Big Discovery in Dinosaur Paleontology,” Montana State University News Service, 24 March 2005, p. 1.

“Soft tissues are preserved within hindlimb elements of Tyrannosaurus rex (Museum of the Rockies specimen 1125). Removal of the mineral phase reveals transparent, flexible, hollow blood vessels...” Mary H. Schweitzer et al., “Soft-Tissue Vessels and Cellular Preservation in Tyrannosaurus Rex,” Science, Vol. 307, 25 March 2005, p. 1952.

“‘I got goose bumps,’ recalls [Mary] Schweitzer. ‘It was exactly like looking at a slice of modern bone. But, of course, I couldn’t believe it. I said to the lab technician: The bones, after all, are 65 million years old. How could blood cells survive that long?’” Virginia Morell, Dino DNA: The Hunt and the Hype,” Science, Vol. 261, 9 July 1993, p. 160.
11) In addition, there have been numerous similar findings since then:

Researchers have found a reason for the puzzling survival of soft tissue and collagen in dinosaur bones - the bones are younger than anyone ever guessed. Carbon-14 (C-14) dating of multiple samples of bone from 8 dinosaurs from Texas, Alaska, Colorado, and Montana revealed that they are only 22,000 to 39,000 years old. Since dinosaurs are thought to be over 65 million years old, the news is stunning. The researchers presented their findings at the 2012 Western Pacific Geophysics Meeting in Singapore, August 13-17, a conference of the American Geophysical Union (AGU) and the Asia Oceania Geosciences Society (AOGS).

12) Debunking Skeptics: Skeptics have tried to debunk the preserved dino tissue by saying that iron acted as a preservative. However, iron is always found in blood and bone marrow and has never been shown to preserve blood. Just try to bury a cow, dig it up 10 years later and see how flexible the blood vessels are, right? There will be NO MORE COW after 10 years.

Wishing evidence will go away is not debunking it. Google it - tons of articles today on preserved dino soft tissue. Preserved flexible blood vessels and blood cells out of a T-rex bone will not simply go away just because ATHEISTS wish it would go away.

They have pictures of microscope shots SHOWING the vessels and red blood cells. It is definitely PRESERVED SOFT TISSUE AND BLOOD CELLS from a T-Rex. Thoroughly genuine find, not to mention other similar finds from a Hadrosaur. Too many secular sources on the net to deny its reality at this point. Pathetic to even try. Nothing is 'debunked' from an unwillingness to see the evidence. You cannot wish it to go away - the proof is staring at you.

Thank You Lord for showing us Your Word is true, and may You work in the hearts and minds of those in rebellion, that some may be saved, in Jesus Name!

You need to stay current:
The controversial discovery of 68-million-year-old soft tissue from the bones of a Tyrannosaurus rex finally has a physical explanation. According to new research, iron in the dinosaur's body preserved the tissue before it could decay.

The research, headed by Mary Schweitzer, a molecular paleontologist at North Carolina State University, explains how proteins — and possibly even DNA — can survive millennia. Schweitzer and her colleagues first raised this question in 2005, when they found the seemingly impossible: soft tissue preserved inside the leg of an adolescent T. rex unearthed in Montana.

 

[ecco]

1) Genesis tells us God created all animals (dinos included) and humans in the same week. God created an already mature creation with adult humans, mature fruit-bearing trees, and starlight already reaching earth to be appreciated by Adam even though the stars are located billions of light-years away.

2) Using the various Biblical genealogies and documented lifetimes, it appears the earth is about 6000 - 7000 years old.

If you believe in the possibility that God created the universe fully formed 6000-7000 years ago, then you have to accept the possibility that God created the universe fully formed Last Thursday.

Do you accept that possibility?

 

[gnostic]

Stating "ID is not science," shares no equivalency with stating "ID is not truth."

If scientists, by using the 'scientific method', wish to limit themselves, that's their problem.

But does the explanation of descent with modification meet those same requirements? No....

Good grief.

Wow. Only a person with no science qualification, no background in scientific research would state such an ignorant thing.

Do you want to know what scientific method mean or do, Hockeycowboy?

The Scientific Method is procedure about how to acquire the evidences that are testable and verifiable, that are necessary part of the data that will determine if the hypothesis is true or false.

One way to acquire the evidences, is through experiments, which are performed as much as needed to, to give you the data that show if the hypothesis is probable or improbable.

So if you perform 100 experiments, and only 2 failed (possible human error, or faulty measuring devices), then the hypothesis is highly probable, and therefore worth considering go to the next step: Peer Review.

But if the 100 experiments failed 100 times, then the hypothesis is clear false, and the hypothesis is debunked or refuted. If that's the case, I wouldn't even bother to submit this hypothesis for Peer Review.

The Scientific Method is necessary to make sure scientists are not cheating.

The Peer Review is also method, in which independent scientists can make sure there are no errors in the hypothesis, and fixing the data with false favorable test results. In another word, the Peer Review is supposed to catch cheaters.

In the Kitzmiller v Dover Area School District trial, Michael Behe admitted that no ID papers and books have been submitted for Peer Review.

 

[gnostic]

As to Stephen Meyer's video.

You realised that his only qualification, is that of geophysicist. And he worked in the oil company, before becoming a full-time preacher.

He has no qualification in biology, no experiences with paleontology and no experiences in dating methods.

Working at oil company don't you the technology in dating minerals and rocks, let alone fossils, because the oil company is not in the business of researching fossils of ancient life. Their business is making profits from drill for oil, refining oil and selling oil. They are there for biology and studying prehistoric life.

So, Meyer is not qualified to tell us what is biology, what is or isn't evolution.

What he can do is give his unprofessional opinions on biology, and he certainly can believe in the pseudoscience Intelligent Design Creationism.

 

[Audie]

As to Stephen Meyer's video.

You realised that his only qualification, is that of geophysicist. And he worked in the oil company, before becoming a full-time preacher.

He has no qualification in biology, no experiences with paleontology and no experiences in dating methods.

Working at oil company don't you the technology in dating minerals and rocks, let alone fossils, because the oil company is not in the business of researching fossils of ancient life. Their business is making profits from drill for oil, refining oil and selling oil. They are there for biology and studying prehistoric life.

So, Meyer is not qualified to tell us what is biology, what is or isn't evolution.

What he can do is give his unprofessional opinions on biology, and he certainly can believe in the pseudoscience Intelligent Design Creationism.

Slight correction on what you said of fossils of ancient life.

My then-boyfriend was working as a wellsite geologist.
and I saw some of his work. The drill brings up all sorts
of micro fossils which can be quite useful. Most drilling
apparently is done in well known strata so that when
cuttings (?) come up with diagnostic fossils, the geologist knows
where the drill is.

Not exactly research, as such, of course.

I feel he would be every bit as good on biblical scholarship
as Meyer is at ToE.

 

[Audie]

If you believe in the possibility that God created the universe fully formed 6000-7000 years ago, then you have to accept the possibility that God created the universe fully formed Last Thursday.

Do you accept that possibility?

Ah, the grim spectre of embedded age raises its
head.