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Evidence For And Against Evolution

gnostic

The Lost One
@Valjean or others:
Do you agree with the National Institute of General Medical Sciences (nih) that "scientists agree" that cells are the smallest form of life? Just wondering if you accept that as true (realizing now that the word 'true' in the 'truest' sense of true is not necessarily something to be taken for granted in scientific postulations or definitions, I suppose). Thank you. So again -- do you agree or accept the description that cells are the smallest form of life?

I'm wondering. I wonder also what Valjean thinks. I'll relate what he says when I have more time. I've been looking up about what the NIH (National Institutes of Health) is saying about cells being the smallest (?) form of living matter.
They are talking about prokaryotes, thus single-celled organisms eg bacteria and archaea, as the smallest forms of life.

Animals, plants, algae and fungi are not prokaryotes - they are all eukaryotes - multicellular organisms.

Eukaryotes have multiple different cells that have different functions. These cells are living matters, but not organisms.

I don’t know/understand about the reproductive systems of plants, algae, fungi, so I am going to focus what about I am to say, to animals, more specifically about mammals, like humans for example.

I am quite sure you understand the process of reproduction among humans. Male and female have sex, man’s sperm help woman’s egg (ovum) to fertilize, causing multiple cell divisions, causing embryo to form, resulting in pregnancy, and eventually the woman give birth to infant or baby.

What you may not know is that sperm and egg are both gametes, or what biologists referred to as haploid cells.

A haploid cell is a single-celled matter, containing genetic information about one of the parent. The thing is that both gametes have short lifespan, so if the sperms and egg don’t fertilize, they will eventually die out.

Once the two haploid cells joined through fertilization, they are no longer single-celled. The fertilization will cause cell-divisions, making new cells for the embryo.

So the only time man and woman produce single-celled life is during sex. Each sperm and each ovum (egg) is only one cell (haploid cell), but separate they don’t live very long, because by itself, each cell cannot sustain itself. Together, they kick-start formation of offspring growing in the woman’s womb.

So haploid cells don’t last very long, unless fertilization occurred.

Bacteria and archaea are self-staining life or organisms, therefore they are the only single-celled life forms that have existed for 4 billion years (or more precisely 3.6 billion years).

NIH are most likely talking about bacteria and archaea, hence prokaryotes.
 
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McBell

Unbound
Isn't Atheism the biggest hollow Claim one could think of, please?
Right friend, please?

Regards
It is my opinion that the baseless wishful thinking false hope claims of theists are the most hollow of claims.
But then, I strongly suspect that we have extremely different ideas of not only what is and is not a claim but also on what is and is not hollow.
 

ratiocinator

Lightly seared on the reality grill.
Isn't Atheism the biggest hollow Claim one could think of, please?
Right friend, please?

No - it isn't even a claim. As for hollow claims, they don't get more hollow than claims of god(s). I've never once heard such a claim that came with anything remotely like a good reason to take it seriously.
 

tas8831

Well-Known Member
tas8831 wrote, "Selection is what we call differential reproductive success.
The better adapted one is to the environment, the more likely one is to leave viable offspring.
"

Who has selected the letters/words of one's above expression colored in magenta, please? Right, please?

Regards
No idea what you are carrying on about.
Do you understand what metaphor means?
 

YoursTrue

Faith-confidence in what we hope for (Hebrews 11)
There are many problems that confronts evolutionary theory ,odds are one that cant be explained to be believable.

I talk about the odds against logic, there are over 100 amino acids, but only 20 are needed for life’s proteins.they come in two shapes: Some of the molecules are “right-handed and others are left handed .IF they formed at a random process of a organic soup, it seems its most likely that half would be right handed and half left handed.

There is no known reason why either shape should be preferred in living things. Yet, of the 20 amino acids producing life’s proteins, all are left-handed ,what are the odds?
How can thus be logically explained other by designed that only the specifically required kinds would be united in the soup for life to exist.

Again I speak of odds ,Probability that the correct amino acids would come together to form a protein molecule.Its liken to big thoroughly mixed pile gobbyde goop of red beans and white beans containing equal numbers now in this pile are over 100 different varieties of beans. Now, if you plunged a scoop into this pile, what do you think you would get? To get the beans that represent the basic components of a protein, you would have to scoop up ONLY red ones no white ones at all and when the perfect conditions exist you only have 1 chance to get this right forever,not only this but your scoop must contain only 20 varieties of the red beans, and each one must be in a specific, preassigned place in the scoop.

In the scientific world of protein, a single mistake in any one of these requirements would cause the protein that is produced to fail to function properly.

Would any amount of stirring and scooping in this hypothetical bean pile have given the right combination? No, again I ask what are the odds? Then how would it have been possible in the hypothetical organic soup?

The proteins needed for life have very complex molecules. What is the chance of even a simple protein molecule forming at random in an organic soup? the odds are
one in 10113 (1 followed by 113 zeros) dismissed by mathematicians as never happening for all eternity .An idea of the odds, or probability, involved is seen in the fact that the number 10113 is larger than the estimated total number of all the atoms in the universe.

Folks I didnt make these odds up ,this is evolutionists acknowledge it to be one in 10113

Evolution is a fact

Evolutionists are you aware that evolution is mathematically impossible? | Yahoo Answers


Some proteins serve as structural materials and others as enzymes. The latter speed up needed chemical reactions in the cell. Without such help, the cell would die. Not just a few, but 2,000 proteins serving as enzymes are needed for the cell’s activity. What are the chances of obtaining all of these at random?

Now look at nucleotides, the structural units of DNA, which bears the genetic code. Five histones are involved in DNA histones are thought to be involved in governing the activity of genes. The chance of forming even the simplest of these histones is said to be 1 in 20100—how large are these odds?

Larger than the total of all the atoms in all the stars and galaxies visible in the largest astronomical telescopes THAT EXIST.

want more proof Jehovah GOD was behind this?

How about the origin of the complete genetic code a requirement for cell reproduction. The old puzzle of the chicken or the egg rears its head relative to proteins and DNA proteins depend on DNA for their formation. But DNA cannot form without preexisting protein,this create a paradox which came first,the protein or the DNA? To accept evolutionists theory the answer must be they developed in parallel.In effect, the chicken’ and ‘the egg’ must have evolved simultaneously, neither one coming from the other.

Evolutionary theory attempts to eliminate the need for the impossible to be accomplished in one blow by espousing a step-by-step process by which natural selection could do its work gradually. However, without the genetic code to begin reproduction, there can be no material for natural selection to select.
The process has had forever in theory to get it right the problem is it would take longer than FOREVER to get it right.

Somewhere along forever of time the primitive cell had to devise something that revolutionized life on earth photosynthesis.This process, by which plants take in carbon dioxide and give off oxygen.

Biologist F. W. Went - Google Search

Biologist F. W. Went states, “a process that no one has yet been able to reproduce in a test tube.”⁠22 Yet, by chance, a tiny simple cell is thought to have originated it.Seems someone knew we were coming needing oxygen.


This process of photosynthesis turned an atmosphere that contained no free oxygen into one in which one molecule out of every five is oxygen. As a result, animals could breathe oxygen and live, and an ozone layer could form to protect all life from the damaging effects of ultraviolet radiation but Im to believe this all was random chance.


Intelligence must somehow have been involved in bringing life into existence,
If a spontaneous beginning for life is to be accepted as scientific fact, it should be established by the scientific method. This has been described as follows:

"Observe what happens; based on those observations, form a theory as to what may be true; test the theory by further observations and by experiments; and watch to see if the predictions based on the theory are fulfilled"


In an attempt to apply the scientific method, it has not been possible to observe the spontaneous generation of life. There is no evidence that it is happening now, and of course no human observer was around when evolutionists say it was happening. No theory concerning it has been verified by observation. Laboratory experiments have failed to repeat it. Predictions based on the theory have not been fulfilled. With such an inability to apply the scientific method, is it honest science to elevate such a theory to the level of fact?

Professor Wald of Harvard University

Professor Wald of Harvard University - Google Search

“to concede that the spontaneous generation of a living organism is impossible.”
But what does this proponent of evolution actually believe? He answers: “Yet here we are—as a result, I believe, of spontaneous generation

Does that sound like objective science?

I think the logical intelligence of the human mind deep down inside subconsciously
believe the existence of a supreme being ,but because conditions are so horrible ,death ,sickness .pandemics ,natural disasters faith is demised in a loving GOD.
Therefore theories come forth to explain how we came to be excluding a GOD as the first cause.

Bur Jehovah GOD has a purpose for man and this earth
click this link to explore the scriptures :

https://www.jw.org/en/library/books/happy-life/what-was-gods-original-purpose-for-man/
Yes. I was thinking that scientists seek to imagine what came first in life, they don't really know, yet they try to figure it out. But the Bible doesn't guess. It says God made the heavens and the earth. Marvelously it doesn't go into the atomic structure of things. It simply says God created the heavens and the earth.
 

YoursTrue

Faith-confidence in what we hope for (Hebrews 11)
An atheist is just someone who does not believe throat claims. Why believer any given theist?
Ok here's a question. Doesn't it seem unusual that man cannot really figure out how the human form came about except by imagining it? I mean look at the governments. People must think they are the brightest, most brilliant forms of life on the face of this earth. Does the earth have a face by the way? Face it. Mankind left to his own devices is a failure. Take for instance the national debt. Part of evolution, one can say. Then talk about insanity, cruelty and more. Then talk about how bright men are, ok?
 

ratiocinator

Lightly seared on the reality grill.
Yes. I was thinking that scientists seek to imagine what came first in life, they don't really know, yet they try to figure it out.

Yes - using evidence.

But the Bible doesn't guess. It says God made the heavens and the earth.

When you're just making up a story, there's no need to guess or consider evidence because what actually happened is irrelevant.
 

YoursTrue

Faith-confidence in what we hope for (Hebrews 11)
Yes - using evidence.



When you're just making up a story, there's no need to guess or consider evidence because what actually happened is irrelevant.
There is no evidence for mindless evolution. None whatsoever. Conjecture, yes. Evidence of a hypothesis?* No. Just because DNA is related from animal to another species and then to humans simply does not mean that it is evidence for evolution. You can say it is. At this point, I know it is not. *Sorry, I should have said proof of a hypothesis? No, the hypothesis is not true, and there is no evidence proving that the hypothesis is true.
 
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YoursTrue

Faith-confidence in what we hope for (Hebrews 11)
Yes - using evidence.



When you're just making up a story, there's no need to guess or consider evidence because what actually happened is irrelevant.
It just makes sense to me that if God wanted us to know what molecule or atom or whatever small or large particle He made was constructed of and how He did it, He would let us know. Now that I read about some scientist from Europe about a decade ago who conjectured about the first type of particle or so is given credit, it really does make more sense to me that not only do scientists not know, but that (1) there was a beginning, and (2) God made the "beginning." Nobody, but nobody can prove otherwise.
 

ppp

Well-Known Member
Just because DNA is related from animal to another species and then to humans simply does not mean that it is evidence for evolution.

"Yes, evolution by descent from a common ancestor is clearly true. If there was any lingering doubt about the evidence from the fossil record, the study of DNA provides the strongest possible proof of our relatedness to all other living things. Reason alone cannot prove the existence of God." -- Francis Collins, PhD, former head of the Human Genome Project

So, he has the training, the evidence, and the experience to make an informed evaluation of biological matters. And you clearly don't.
 
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