Evidence of God's/Gods' existence

[muhammad_isa]

When its knowledge its not a belief. :yes:

If im wrong please show me where and then why. :angel2:

Well .. what's knowledge? We can be sure of something, but it turns out to be wrong.
The most important thing, when it comes to our relationship with God (and others), is sincerity.

 

[outhouse]

We can be sure of something, but it turns out to be wrong.

that describes faith more then anything else.

The most important thing, when it comes to our relationship with God (and others), is sincerity.

You can have sincerity with you faith, but realize that is all you have is only faith.

Well .. what's knowledge?

In my context , it is history of a time when man made and wrote about deities to give their culture identity.





I asked for you to show where I was wrong. you cannot.

 

[Nakosis]

Well .. what's knowledge? We can be sure of something, but it turns out to be wrong.
The most important thing, when it comes to our relationship with God (and others), is sincerity.

One can be sincere and wrong. Hopefully if there is a God, sincerity counts....

If a person sincerely believes there is no God?

What else can a person do except approach truth as honestly to themselves as possible? Would God ask us to do otherwise?

 

[Alex_G]

Well, Hitchens said that "What Can Be Asserted Without Evidence Can Be Dismissed Without Evidence". I'm not here to say that "No, you're wrong" or " God do exist and I have an evidence". What just made me started this thread is this: For those who think like Hitchens, or let's say that those of you here who's searching for a concrete evidence in order to believe that a Supreme Being really does exist, assuming that there is or there can be an evidence which will prove that a god(s) do exist, what exactly are you going to do with that evidence? As Father Lucas Trevant (Anthony Hopkins) said in the movie The Rite: "You know, the interesting thing about sceptics, is that we're always looking for proof... the question is, what on earth would we ever do if we found it?"

For me evidence is quite closely linked with understanding, and so when it comes to belief, the means by which i believe something (i hesitate to use that word however at risk of misinterpretation)), is via an understanding.

And so i don’t distance myself from what i think or anticipate future evidence might look like with regards to a god, as if it was some arbitrary point on a board for or against, but rather imagine what such a gain in information or perspective might be like to my understanding. I like to engage with my evidence.

And currently, I’m fundamentally indifferent with regards to a god. Its far from convincing that one exists, let alone in anyway to have any real meaning to me, and equally far from being clear in definition. I’m not even sure what I’m thinking when i say the word God sometimes.

As i said, a God concept is not very close to meaning and value in my life, and i like to wonder and ponder the amazing things we discover and the thrill of continuing mystery in the universe without the footnote of 'god' attached. Furthermore my distaste for so many of the world religions that I’ve encountered distances me further from feeling remotely emotionally engaged in issues of God.

I breathe easy, and sigh in relief when i bask in an almost innocent freedom from any forcefully contrived concepts, that often strike me as almost panicked in the sense of its perceived requirement to fulfil meaning in ones life.

Alex

 

[Renji]

I find it interesting that anyone would see changing a stance due to new information as difficult.

Not really. I just thought that if you're already "wired" on such thinking, it can be difficult to alter it. But then again, it's not always applicable. I just asked you Trout!

 

[crystalonyx]

"You know, the interesting thing about sceptics, is that we're always looking for proof... the question is, what on earth would we ever do if we found it?"

I'm not looking for proof of some god, I already believe the preponderance of the evidence shows there is no god.

 

[muhammad_isa]

I asked for you to show where I was wrong. you cannot.

I most surely can/did, but you don't perceive
You arrogantly asume/assert that faith cannot be founded on KNOWLEDGE!

When asked what knowledge was, you say:-

it is history of a time when man made and wrote about deities to give their culture identity.

Not an accurate defintion, imo.
That's only your projection of one aspect of 'the big picture'

Knowledge can be gained from experience (living life), education, travel, using your intelligence and many other sources..
I didn't split knowledge into a 'religious compartment' .. you did!

 

[McBell]

So much for humanism ...

Your assumptions are rather amusing.

 

[outhouse]

You arrogantly asume/assert that faith cannot be founded on KNOWLEDGE!

faith is simply belief with zero evidence. Is there knowledge with no evidence at all ????

Not an accurate defintion

How is it not accurate????

That's only your projection of one aspect of 'the big picture'

LOL what big picture?????

 

[Nakosis]

I most surely can/did, but you don't perceive
You arrogantly asume/assert that faith cannot be founded on KNOWLEDGE!

Ok, here's a (neutral) question...

On what knowledge do you base your faith?

 

[muhammad_isa]

Ok, here's a (neutral) question...

On what knowledge do you base your faith?

My whole life! Its's experiences .. including (but not exceptionally), education, travel, logical deduction, other people..

Where do you get YOUR knowledge of what's around you?
ie. the meaning of our existence

If one comes to the forum with a preconceived idea that all religions (belief in God) is made up, then how do they expect to see otherwise? They have no interest in what (a possible) God might be saying..

How do you expect to "verify" whether a religion is true or false?
Claiming there is no "physical evidence" won't do, I'm afraid.

And naturally (according to disbelievers), 'second-hand' evidence, such as scripture won't do either .. must be all made-up

 

[Nakosis]

My whole life! Its's experiences .. including (but not exceptionally), education, travel, logical deduction, other people..

Where do you get YOUR knowledge of what's around you?
ie. the meaning of our existence

If one comes to the forum with a preconceived idea that all religions (belief in God) is made up, then how do they expect to see otherwise? They have no interest in what (a possible) God might be saying..

How do you expect to "verify" whether a religion is true or false?
Claiming there is no "physical evidence" won't do, I'm afraid.

And naturally (according to disbelievers), 'second-hand' evidence, such as scripture won't do either .. must be all made-up

There are a number of believers I've talked with who believe they have experienced evidence of some form. Like Pentecostal accept speaking in tongues and the ability to interpret validates scriptures. Others feel their prayers are always answered. Some look for signs. Some coincidental symbol they keep running into that they feel validates their beliefs. The Apostle saw Jesus in a vision. I know a Rabbi who assures me he is constantly visited by God in a physical presence.

I don't trust second-hand testimony much. But many people believe they have had empirical experiences which validate God. Prophets had visions or dreams I take seemed real enough to them.

I don't think God was necessarily made up out of thin air. Prophets really thought they were in communication with God and were able to convince others the truth of this. Not quite sure why anybody else would believe them though. Not unless they had something empirical that supported it.

In the past you win a battle then God must be on your side. Religious beliefs get validated. Loosing side, false, invalidated Gods.

Just wondering if you had something more then the idea that there must have been a creator to get things started? To justify acceptance.

 

[Willamena]

There are a number of believers I've talked with who believe they have experienced evidence of some form. Like Pentecostal accept speaking in tongues and the ability to interpret validates scriptures. Others feel their prayers are always answered. Some look for signs. Some coincidental symbol they keep running into that they feel validates their beliefs. The Apostle saw Jesus in a vision. I know a Rabbi who assures me he is constantly visited by God in a physical presence.

Just as an aside, do you consider the Apostle's vision on the road to Damascus to be empirical in the same way your other examples are?

 

[Nakosis]

Just as an aside, do you consider the Apostle's vision on the road to Damascus to be empirical in the same way your other examples are?

To Paul I suspect so. Paul saw and heard, perceive, observed with his senses an event. This may have seemed as real to him as I suspect it seems real to you the experience of sitting in front of and typing on a computer.

Something caused him dramatically to change his position on Jesus and Christianity. It must have seem to be a very real experience to him. Enough so that he trusted that it was real.

Not saying that should be accepted as proof or evidence by you, just that it was accepted as proof evidence by him. He spent the rest of his life being harassed because of it.

If I perceive an alien or ghost, while you have no reason to believe me, I have to go through life knowing that I experienced seeing a ghost, etc. As real to me as my experience of eating breakfast this morning. Kind of left to trust it or not trusting anything that seems real to me.

 

[zuhairabs]

God exists and he has given you so much signs but some are heedless.
"Do not the Unbelievers see that the heavens and the earth were joined together (as one unit of creation), before We clove them asunder, and We made from water every living thing. Will they not then believe?"
(The Qur'an, 21:30)
Now you don't believe God has given many signs.
"The more i research i close to god" Albert Einstein.
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“Say: ‘Praise be to God. He will show you His Signs and you will recognize them. Your Lord is not heedless of anything you do.’” (Quran 27:93)
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“It is He who sends down water from the sky. From it you drink and from it come the shrubs among which you graze your herds. And by it He makes crops grow for you and olives and dates and grapes and fruit of every kind. Therein is certainly a sign in that for people who reflect. (Quran 16:10-12)
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Now will you not heed.