Evidence of NOAH's FLOOD

[Dan From Smithville]

It won't matter. Creationists are often immune to the facts.

I've read that article before. I find it to be a very telling example of how creationist take a minor fact, blow it out of proportion and later creationist cite that out of proportion nonsense as if it were fact supporting their claims.

Yes, that wild, buttercups flash frozen in the mouth of a mammoth carcass is the story that is used as evidence to support speculation of some fictional mechanism of how the flood slew all that it encountered.

 

[Dan From Smithville]

If you want answers you should ask your questions one at a time. You cannot go into any depth when your questions are asked this way.

And questions relevant to the topic and not those irrelevant to the topic that appear designed to marginalize others and divert from the burden to support claims.

As to your fixation with buttercups, do you understand that that has been dealt with? If does not help your myth at all.

Exactly.

 

[John53]

I didn't see that coming.

I must be Nostradamus because I did!!!

 

[Dan From Smithville]

I must be Nostradamus because I did!!!

Wise in the ways of logical fallacies and dodging you are mighty Down Under Thunder.

 

[John53]

Yes, that wild, buttercups flash frozen in the mouth of a mammoth carcass is the story that is used as evidence to support speculation of some fictional mechanism of how the flood slew all that it encountered.

I'm unsure why the mammoth didn't deteriorate after a year of bobbing about in water before it became frozen??? In fact I'm unsure how frozen mega fauna are an indication of world wide flood at all.

 

[Dan From Smithville]

I'm unsure why the mammoth didn't deteriorate after a year of bobbing about in water before it became frozen??? In fact I'm unsure how frozen mega fauna are an indication of world wide flood at all.

The mammoth oft cited as flash frozen and flavor sealed was indeed more than a bit rotten before finally being frozen.

 

[Colt]

Animal carcasses recovered from melting permafrost represent animals killed by a single global flood event that took place between 3000 and 3400 years ago. These animals would all have died within the early part of that event within a short space of time less than one year.

What would falsify this?

The evidence of these carcasses reveals that they did not all die between 3,000 and 3,400 years ago. They died at various times over a period of millennia and as far back as 40 to 50 thousand years. They are all or mostly mammals. There is no mix of all species. They do not bear the evidence of having been drowned in a raging flood.

Hypothesis falsified.

And no humans or fish or dinosaurs found in that permafrost with the animals.

The flood is a children’s story written for the child like mind of Bronze Age sheep herders.

 

[shunyadragon]

Yes, I agree. He established those laws, to keep His creation surviving & thriving.

First, identify what “objectively verifiable evidence” you mean.

Objectively verifiable evidence is the foundation of science. Science makes predictions based on existing knowledge and makes predictions based the evidence that can be physically verifiable.

Finding buttercups in the mouth of frozen Mammoths is evidence that buttercups are in the diet of Mammoths. Buttercups are common in the Arctic North around the edge of glaciers and ice sheets.

(One of your responses, regarding the freezing of items, actually supported my claim.)

What response could possibly support your claim? What is your claim?

 

[Colt]

I'm unsure why the mammoth didn't deteriorate after a year of bobbing about in water before it became frozen??? In fact I'm unsure how frozen mega fauna are an indication of world wide flood at all.

Mammoths can tread water for years! It’s true! Ken Ham told me so!

 

[shunyadragon]

Are you saying it's possible there could be blizzards in Arctic regions during spring or summer that might suddenly catch animals out?

YES! This is actually true of the Arctic north of Asia today, and the Canadian Arctic, though due to global warming.it is warming in the North resulting in warmer weather.

To add, the Arctic North is a torturous place in the summer and spring even though it may br covered with buttercups. Mud, unstable Tundra, Natural gas blowouts, and wolves as big as cows.

 

[Dan From Smithville]

I'm unsure why the mammoth didn't deteriorate after a year of bobbing about in water before it became frozen??? In fact I'm unsure how frozen mega fauna are an indication of world wide flood at all.

Rest easy in the knowledge that they are not evidence for a global flood. They did not die in a single event only a few thousand years ago. They were not flash frozen ready to eat. Just thaw and heat. They are the accumulation over time of the carcasses of mammals that died at different points over that period starting at least 50,000 years ago.

If there were evidence of a global flood that could stand up, then it would be presented rather than pestering me about my beliefs or using my rejection of irrelevant questions as an excuse not to support the wild claims.

 

[Dan From Smithville]

And no humans or fish or dinosaurs found in that permafrost with the animals.

Exactly. They are the carcasses of mammals that were indigenous to the area and not a mix of all living things from everywhere.

The flood is a children’s story written for the child like mind of Bronze Age sheep herders.

I don't know that I would call them child like. They were as intelligent as we are, but much, much more ignorant of the world around them.

 

[gnostic]

In your estimation, what exactly are ‘God’s works’?

The “God’s works” are simply superstitions and myths - especially the creation stories.

Neither Genesis Creation, nor the Qur’an Creation, nor any other creation myths of older civilisations offered any definitive and detailed explanation of HOW the Earth or Solar System form.

Did the earth form naturally by accretion? How exactly would this work, establishing a stable orbit with gravity exerting it’s force?

That's where the current evidence is pointing at.

Do you know what they mean by “accretion”?

We have evidence of what was the Solar System like 4.55 Ga ago.

It would look more like the Asteroid Belt and the Kuiper Belt, with objects the size of grains to larger objects (eg planetesimals, meteoroid) and asteroids, all rotating around the central object, the star, our Sun.

Then imagine that the whole system were filled with objects, when the Sun haven't yet started, and the planets have yet form (proto-planets). The proto-planetary bodies would orbit around the young star, colliding with these smaller objects (planetesimals, meteorite, comets, asteroid). These objects would add more masses to the planetary bodies, with the larger objects (asteroids and large meteorite) causing the rock and metallic substances to melt, so that the early Earth was like magma ocean.

The points are, those asteroids, meteorite, comets and planetesimals that have collide with the Earth for the first 100 million years would then become part of the Earth, shaping it into spheroid shape.

Once the proto-Earth have cleared most of the objects from its orbit, there would be less impact, allowing the Earth to cool, turning the magma on the surface into crusts.

It is only when Earth's crusts form that the atmosphere would become stablized enough for prebiotic atmosphere, and the crust are solid enough to hold water.

That would be how the inner (rocky) planets form around the Sun, eg Mercury, Venus and Mars. I don't know if it would be the same for gas giant planets.

 

[Hockeycowboy]

And as of this date, no one has presented any viable explanation how, through natural means, the mammoths and other megafauna, perhaps millions of creatures, got entrapped within the Permafrost! Not on top; within it.

The explanations about animals “caught on the edges of glaciers” …. Apparently, not very well thought-out…. Glaciers exert too much force! In little time, they would have pulverized the animals, not preserved them.

And there’s been tens of thousands of tons of mammoth tusks, that have been dredged up from the bottom of the Bering and North Seas. Those are just the ones found; no telling how many more are there.

No doubt many animals had died in those areas prior to the Flood. But that cataclysm, with the waters from “the vast fountains of the deep” rising up, the land above them had to sink, drowning the animals that were then alive.

Next, when I have the time, I’ll post the similarities discovered when some anthropologists began studying “festivals of the dead” from around the world. Many commemorations start on the same date (or near), as they relate to ancient calendars, both lunar & solar, coinciding with the “17th day of the 2nd month” (when the Flood began & killed the vast majority), as described in Genesis, which corresponds to our October 31-November 1st. This matches 2 here in our northwest Hemisphere: “Halloween” in the U.S., and Mexico’s “Day of the Dead”. There are many others.

 

[Subduction Zone]

And as of this date, no one has presented any viable explanation how, through natural means, the mammoths and other megafauna, perhaps millions of creatures, got entrapped within the Permafrost! Not on top; within it.

The explanations about animals “caught on the edges of glaciers” …. Apparently, not very well thought-out…. Glaciers exert too much force! In little time, they would have pulverized the animals, not preserved them.

And there’s been tens of thousands of tons of mammoth tusks, that have been dredged up from the bottom of the Bering and North Seas. Those are just the ones found; no telling how many more are there.

No doubt many animals had died in those areas prior to the Flood. But that cataclysm, with the waters from “the vast fountains of the deep” rising up, the land above them had to sink, drowning the animals that were then alive.

Next, when I have the time, I’ll post the similarities discovered when some anthropologists began studying “festivals of the dead” from around the world. Many commemorations start on the same date (or near), as they relate to ancient calendars, both lunar & solar, coinciding with the “17th day of the 2nd month” (when the Flood began & killed the vast majority), as described in Genesis, which corresponds to our October 31-November 1st. This matches 2 here in our northwest Hemisphere: “Halloween” in the U.S., and Mexico’s “Day of the Dead”. There are many others.

I doubt if tens of thousands of tons have been found. It may be estimated that there are that many buried, but you have to remember that over thousands of years that bones can accumulate. If buried in a bog they will be preserved. And glaciers are not always destructive. They can slide or they can flow. If it is "warm", near the freezing point, they flow more than they slide.

 

[Hockeycowboy]

This would serve well as a good example in a logic textbook in the chapter about Argument From Ignorance.

What logic is there in claiming undirected, mindless processes formed the first supramolecular nano machinery in the cell?

That’s illogical; in fact, it’s blind faith, because no evidence supports it… no lab results or anything.

Evolutionary processes have shown that they only work on what already exists.

And @Audie wonders about honesty. Lol.

Your questions are entirely irrelevant…

Nope, they are not.

The truth about God, reality, and science, are irrevocably intertwined.

Someday all will learn. Or at least, be given the chance… w/o the negative influences that currently exist, I believe.

 

[Subduction Zone]

What logic is there in claiming undirected, mindless processes formed the first supramolecular nano machinery in the cell?

That’s illogical; in fact, it’s blind faith, because no evidence supports it… no lab results or anything.

Evolutionary processes have shown that they only work on what already exists.

And @Audie wonders about honesty. Lol.





Nope, they are not.

The truth about God, reality, and science, are irrevocably intertwined.

Someday all will learn. Or at least, be given the chance… w/o the negative influences that currently exist, I believe.

No, it isn't. Just because some science is beyond your limited abilities to understand does not make it illogical.

But, since you moved the goalposts, you just admitted that you were wrong about evolution. You see the theory of evolution does not rely upon natural abiogenesis at all.m

 

[Heyo]

The mammoth oft cited as flash frozen and flavor sealed was indeed more than a bit rotten before finally being frozen.

I don't know about the mammoths but Ötzi was probably caught in an avalanche. The mammoths might have been victims of a blizzard, one that never thawed for thousands of years.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

What logic is there in claiming undirected, mindless processes formed the first supramolecular nano machinery in the cell?

Much logic as it is evidence based.

That’s illogical; in fact, it’s blind faith, because no evidence supports it… no lab results or anything.

This is false off course. Willful ignorance doesn't make the facts go away.

Evolutionary processes have shown that they only work on what already exists.

No. They can only go forward with what already exists.
As in, they can't go back to the drawing board. It can only advance. It can't go back and change things up.
This is why our eyes for example have a blind spot. It would be nice if evolution could say "hmmm, this initial original design wasn't he best... let's go back and change it". But it can't. It can only go forward by tinkering with what currently already exists.

This is how biology ended up with sub-par and weird designs like eyes with a blind spot, a nerve that needs to travel only 1 inch yet takes an enormous detour to loop around the aorta, bipedal species with a spine not really fit for bipedalism causing lower back pains, a mouth not big enough to house all teeth giving dentists much work with pulling wisdom teeth that hurt like hell, etc.

And @Audie wonders about honesty. Lol.

Well you are once again going of on a tangent instead of addressing the point raised in the post you reply to....
The point wasn't about evolution. The point was about your creator god and you defending that point merely by arguing against evolution instead of FOR your god.

Even ignoring how your silly objections to evolution are, off course, rooted in sheer ignorance, your case "for" your god consists ENTIRELY of trying to argue against some different idea.

That is called "negative evidence". It's the hallmark of appeals to ignorance. "we don't know how, so therefor god".
It's the god of the gaps. The argument from ignorance.


That is not how you demonstrate or support your case. You require positive evidence FOR your case. You don't have any, do you?
All you have are appeals to ignorance based on strawmen and willful ignorance.

I always say to creationsists: you know... you don't have to agree with evolution... but if you are so hellbend on arguing against it, at least learn what it actually says....

What do you hope to accomplish by arguing strawmen?

 

[Audie]

And as of this date, no one has presented any viable explanation how, through natural means, the mammoths and other megafauna, perhaps millions of creatures, got entrapped within the Permafrost! Not on top; within it.

The explanations about animals “caught on the edges of glaciers” …. Apparently, not very well thought-out…. Glaciers exert too much force! In little time, they would have pulverized the animals, not preserved them.

And there’s been tens of thousands of tons of mammoth tusks, that have been dredged up from the bottom of the Bering and North Seas. Those are just the ones found; no telling how many more are there.

No doubt many animals had died in those areas prior to the Flood. But that cataclysm, with the waters from “the vast fountains of the deep” rising up, the land above them had to sink, drowning the animals that were then alive.

Next, when I have the time, I’ll post the similarities discovered when some anthropologists began studying “festivals of the dead” from around the world. Many commemorations start on the same date (or near), as they relate to ancient calendars, both lunar & solar, coinciding with the “17th day of the 2nd month” (when the Flood began & killed the vast majority), as described in Genesis, which corresponds to our October 31-November 1st. This matches 2 here in our northwest Hemisphere: “Halloween” in the U.S., and Mexico’s “Day of the Dead”. There are many others.

No viable means?
You just made that up.
See "honesty, lack of".

IF, by any chance, you've been
outdoors you will have noticed
things that are half buried.
How did they get that way?

Maybe you've used a metal detector
and found burird things. Oh look this coke can
was buried in the Flood!

Things do get buried in a lot of different ways.

In the arctic, everything that gets buried is
soon frozen into the permafrost.

In the cold of the arctic summer, decay is slow.

No need for the carcass to be buried instantly.

And the fact that the 99% of the mammoth
carcasses are scavenged and badly decayed
shows clearly they were buried some days or weeks
after death.

Try this for a real " never explained".

Why are your mammoths scavenged and stinky
decayed?

Attempt honesty in your reply.

Not that I expect an answer, you've been asked before.