Evidence, proof and prove

[We Never Know]

Bob lives alone. Last Sunday Bob ate a ham and cheese sandwich.

Bob doesn't have have ham or cheese in his fridge. He already digested what he ate. He doesn't have evidence or any proof that he ate a ham and cheese sandwich last Sunday so he can't prove he did.

Does that mean Bob didn't eat a ham and cheese sandwich last Sunday??

 

[Viker]

Bob lives alone. Last Sunday Bob ate a ham and cheese sandwich.

Bob doesn't have have ham or cheese in his fridge. He already digested what he ate. He doesn't have evidence or any proof that he ate a ham and cheese sandwich last Sunday so he can't prove he did.

Does that mean Bob didn't eat a ham and cheese sandwich last Sunday??

No. It just means he doesn't have proof now. If he had planned ahead he would have saved a small portion of the sandwich and a stool sample. He would have properly compiled these samples with corresponding dated receipts and carefully preserved his collection in air tight containers. Bob just ate a sandwich. I don't think Bob cared enough to do all that other stuff.

 

[We Never Know]

No. It just means he doesn't have proof now. If he had planned ahead he would have saved a small portion of the sandwich and a stool sample. He would have properly compiled these samples with corresponding dated receipts and carefully preserved his collection in air tight containers. Bob just ate a sandwich. I don't think Bob cared enough to do all that other stuff.

"No. It just means he doesn't have proof now"

Yep. My point is there are times when some things happen and the only person around is yourself.
That doesn't mean it didn't happen. It just gives others a reason to doubt you.... But that doesn't mean it didnt happen.

 

[Clizby Wampuscat]

"No. It just means he doesn't have proof now"

Yep. My point is there are times when some things happen and the only person around is yourself.
That doesn't mean it didn't happen. It just gives others a reason to doubt you.... But that doesn't mean it didnt happen.

If I was abducted by Bigfoot last week I would not expect people to believe me without good evidence.

 

[We Never Know]

If I was abducted by Bigfoot last week I would not expect people to believe me without good evidence.

True. But does that mean it didn't happen?

 

[Guitar's Cry]

But that doesn't mean it didnt happen.

But it is also possible that your perception of the event wasn't entirely accurate.

Bob may have actually eaten the sandwich Saturday, but remembers it as being on Sunday. Or maybe someone got his order wrong, gave him turkey instead but he couldn't tell the difference. Or maybe he dreamed he ate the sandwich and forgot whether it was real or not. Or someone made it for him, he didn't eat it, and he lies in order to not hurt that person's feelings, but that lie becomes real to him.

 

[We Never Know]

But it is also possible that your perception of the event wasn't entirely accurate.

Bob may have actually eaten the sandwich Saturday, but remembers it as being on Sunday. Or maybe someone got his order wrong, gave him turkey instead but he couldn't tell the difference. Or maybe he dreamed he ate the sandwich and forgot whether it was real or not. Or someone made it for him, he didn't eat it, and he lies in order to not hurt that person's feelings, but that lie becomes real to him.

You left off "or martians flew down with a unknown meat they acquired from a jabberwalker on klepton and Bob just thought it was ham"

 

[John53]

True. But does that mean it didn't happen?

Nor does it mean it did happen. What's your point?

 

[We Never Know]

Nor does it mean it did happen. What's your point?

Its up to the person who said it did happen to ration out whether it did or not. Not for others to tell them they are full of BS.

 

[Exaltist Ethan]

If there is no reason which the person might be lying, then it doesn't really matter if Bob had a ham and cheese sandwich, correct? But there's a lot of reasons why someone would lie about religious matters. Religion binds people together as one identity and one space in a unique place and time. Politicians and religious figures lie all the time to get you to vote for them, donate to their charity, or tithe. I honestly don't care if Bob eats a ham and cheese sandwich, but, I do care about who I vote for and how I spend my money. I could tell you I have blue eyes, it's not true, but why would it matter if it was? When there is something at stake, something worth of value, I lean on the side of caution. When it's Bob eating a ham and cheese sandwich or me having blue eyes, I couldn't care less, honestly.

 

[We Never Know]

If there is no reason which the person might be lying, then it doesn't really matter if Bob had a ham and cheese sandwich, correct? But there's a lot of reasons why someone would lie about religious matters. Religion binds people together as one identity and one space in a unique place and time. Politicians and religious figures lie all the time to get you to vote for them, donate to their charity, or tithe. I honestly don't care if Bob eats a ham and cheese sandwich, but, I do care about who I vote for and how I spend my money. I could tell you I have blue eyes, it's not true, but why would it matter if it was? When there is something at stake, something worth of value, I lean on the side of caution. When it's Bob eating a ham and cheese sandwich or me having blue eyes, I couldn't care less, honestly.

After bedtime a man's 11 year old daughter screams Daddy! Daddy! He runs in the room to find his daughter crying and upset. She says she was awakened by a knock on her window and a man was looking in at her.
Dad goes outside, walks around the wooden deck by her window. He doesn't see anyone or hear anything. Its a wooden deck so there are no footprints. Dad blows it off as a dream

Was there really someone there or not?

 

[John53]

Its up to the person who said it did happen to ration out whether it did or not. Not for others to tell them they are full of BS.

If they post it in the Bigfoot DIR sure. But if they post it in Bigfoot debate they are inviting debate. Whinging about people debating in a debate forum is ridiculous.

 

[Trailblazer]

Bob lives alone. Last Sunday Bob ate a ham and cheese sandwich.

Bob doesn't have have ham or cheese in his fridge. He already digested what he ate. He doesn't have evidence or any proof that he ate a ham and cheese sandwich last Sunday so he can't prove he did.

Does that mean Bob didn't eat a ham and cheese sandwich last Sunday??

Of course it does not mean that.

A man murders his wife and leaves no evidence. Does that mean he did not murder his wife? No. If he murdered her he murdered her. Evidence is only what the courts need to convict him of murder.

I believe that God left evidence of His existence through the Messengers, but for the sake of argument let's say God did not provide any evidence at all. Does that mean that God does not exist? Of course not. That is completely illogical because God could exist and choose to provide no evidence at all. Evidence is just what people want to confirm God's existence. It does not cause God to exist.

 

[Stevicus]

"No. It just means he doesn't have proof now"

Yep. My point is there are times when some things happen and the only person around is yourself.
That doesn't mean it didn't happen. It just gives others a reason to doubt you.... But that doesn't mean it didnt happen.

Yes, although if they doubt you, who cares? People can believe whatever they want.

If Bob told me he had a ham and cheese sandwich, I would have no compelling reason to disbelieve him, and I don't perceive that Bob would have any compelling reason to lie about it. Why should I or anyone else care about something like that anyway? Even if someone truly believed that he didn't have a ham and cheese sandwich, why would someone go out of their way to call them out because they think he's lying about it? Who does that?

 

[Exaltist Ethan]

After bedtime a man's 11 year old daughter screams Daddy! Daddy! He runs in the room to find his daughter crying and upset. She says she was awakened by a knock on her window and a man was looking in at her.
Dad goes outside, walks around the wooden deck by her window. He doesn't see anyone or hear anything. Its a wooden deck so there are no footprints. Dad blows it off as a dream

Was there really someone there or not?

As long as that man doesn't want my money or for me to vote for somebody I couldn't care less.

 

[We Never Know]

.

As long as that man doesn't want my money or for me to vote for somebody I couldn't care less.

Thats sad you laughed and joked about that post. Its a true story. The next day they found out three houses down a person crawled through a window and killed a 7 year old girl.

 

[Revoltingest]

Bob lives alone. Last Sunday Bob ate a ham and cheese sandwich.

Bob doesn't have have ham or cheese in his fridge. He already digested what he ate. He doesn't have evidence or any proof that he ate a ham and cheese sandwich last Sunday so he can't prove he did.

Does that mean Bob didn't eat a ham and cheese sandwich last Sunday??

He might still have evidence, eg, microscopic proteins
from his dinner lingering on surfaces they & he touched.
Proteomics would offer evidence that ham, cheese, & bread
existed....not proof, just evidence.

 

[Left Coast]

Its up to the person who said it did happen to ration out whether it did or not. Not for others to tell them they are full of BS.

It's also up to people to whom he tells the story to reason out whether it happened or not. Eating sandwiches is a pretty common occurrence, and we have no reason to suspect Bob of lying or hallucinating. And there's little to nothing at stake to accept as likely that Bob in fact ate a sandwich last Sunday.

Compare that to a claim that, say, the Virgin Mary came down from heaven to have a chat with Bob last Sunday and gave him a message for the world...now we're dealing with very different circumstances and reasons to doubt.

 

[We Never Know]

It's also up to people to whom he tells the story to reason out whether it happened or not. Eating sandwiches is a pretty common occurrence, and we have no reason to suspect Bob of lying or hallucinating. And there's little to nothing at stake to accept as likely that Bob in fact ate a sandwich last Sunday.

Compare that to a claim that, say, the Virgin Mary came down from heaven to have a chat with Bob last Sunday and gave him a message for the world...now we're dealing with very different circumstances and reasons to doubt.

True. But many things are waved off simply because "you can't prove it so therefore I don't believe you"
Not everything can be proven.

 

[Sgt. Pepper]

If they post it in the Bigfoot DIR sure. But if they post it in Bigfoot debate they are inviting debate. Whinging about people debating in a debate forum is ridiculous.

Personally, I believe that there is a distinction to be made between debating a topic like Sasquatch or ghosts and labeling those who believe in them as delusional, illogical, and unable to reason rationally. I don't believe there is any valid reason or excuse to disparage people with whom you disagree or do not share their beliefs. The primary reason I don't debate about my spiritual beliefs, my psychic mediumship, or my paranormal experiences is because of how most skeptics (both Christian and non-Christian) have mistreated me.