Evidence that Jesus was the Messiah

[HelpMe]

i don't think you're bashing christianity JS, but i do in many cases find reason for such actions .

since you said

If he returns and is the Moshiach we will all know

i see no reason to disrespect your beliefs.

 

[jewscout]

i see no reason to disrespect your beliefs.

Just like the afterlife, when it comes to the Moshiach i don't know who he will be but i await the day of his coming and the Messianic Era.

 

[goodjewishboy]

I posted this in another thread, however it's more appropriate here

Don't know if this is the right thread to post this in, but here's a short (and probably incomplete) list of requirements for the Moshiach (messiah)

First, the word Moshiach does not mean savior it translates to the anointed one.

following comes directly from www.jewfaq.org

Quote:
The notion of an innocent, divine or semi-divine being who will sacrifice himself to save us from the consequences of our own sins is a purely Christian concept that has no basis in Jewish thought.

There are requirements that the Moshiach will fulfill:
-He must be in the direct line of King David (Jeremiah 23:5)
-He will be well-versed in Jewish law, and observant of its commandments. (Isaiah 11:2-5)
-He will be a charismatic leader, inspiring others to follow his example. He will be a great military leader, who will win battles for Israel. He will be a great judge, who makes righteous decisions (Jeremiah 33:15)
- Before the time of the moshiach, there shall be war and suffering (Ezekiel 38:16)
- The moshiach will bring about the political and spiritual redemption of the Jewish people by bringing us back to Israel and restoring Jerusalem (Isaiah 11:11-12; Jeremiah 23:8; 30:3; Hosea 3:4-5)
-He will rebuild the Temple and re-establish its worship (Jeremiah 33:18)
-He will restore the religious court system of Israel and establish Jewish law as the law of the land (Jeremiah 33:15)

It has been said that in every generation, a person is born with the potential to be the moshiach. If the time is right for the messianic age within that person's lifetime, then that person will be the moshiach.


Clearly Jesus did not fulfill the requirements, The world is not at peace, it's far from it. It is clear that the moshiach will be born naturally with a human mother and father. Nowhere in the Bible does it predict he (or she i guess) will be born to a virgin. The Jewish messiah is expected to return the Jews to their land and rebuild the Temple, Jesus was born before the exile and was born while the Temple was still standing and in use. The Jewish Bible says the messiah will redeem Israel, shortly after Jesus's death Jerusalem was laid to waste and the Holy Temple was destroyed, the Jewish people were scattered and percecuted for nearly 2000 years by the very people who claimed to follow Jesus Christ.

That's all I'm going to write, if you want to read more follow this link:

http://www.jewsforjudaism.org/web/p...kPages_v4ab.pdf

It has been said that the messiah and the World to Come will arrive after humanity collectively rises itself up far enough or lowers itself too far. With current world events as they are we're standing on a knife's edge and could go either way.

 

[HelpMe]

With current world events as they are we're standing on a knife's edge and could go either way.

greatly said, have frubals.

 

[jewscout]

It has been said that the messiah and the World to Come will arrive after humanity collectively rises itself up far enough or lowers itself too far. With current world events as they are we're standing on a knife's edge and could go either way.

Agreed goodjewishboy but then again mankind has been on the threshold in every generation. And it is said that every generation a child is born that could be the Moshiach but something is missing to push them into that role at that time. Perhaps those to things are connected, both the world and the child must be ready. It could be tomorrow or it could be in a thousand years. No one really knows and Rambam, of blessed memory, said we shouldn't concern ourselves with it (in fact i think trying to predict it is prohibited).

 

[harold e. rice]

Where does it say in the Old Testament that the Messiah will be born of a virgin?

Please don’t use Isaiah 7:14 because we now know that the original words were young woman.

 

[HelpMe]

his entire life did not have to be prophesied for him to be the messiah.
Septuagint?not all 'bibles' translate it to say 'virgin'.


http://www.eliyah.com/thescriptures/

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

It has been said that the messiah and the World to Come will arrive after humanity collectively rises itself up far enough or lowers itself too far.

All kinds of things have been said, much of it uninformed. A rather interesting take on 2nd Temple messianic expectations can be found in Schiffman's truly interesting

Reclaiming the Dead Sea Scrolls: The History of Judaism, the Background of Christianity, the Lost Library of Qumran​

While exposing some serious flaws in the evaluation of Qumran, Schiffman notes that 2nd Temple Messianism was often characterized by the expectation of 2 messiahs: a freedom-fighter King and a new head of the Priesthood.

Schiffman is an Orthodox Jew with extensive credentials in DSS study. It's an interesting read. Parenthetically, current archaeological reviews of Qumran are only now migrating away from the Essene paradigm in conformance with Schiffmans analysis of the text.

 

[true blood]

I'm just curious on what grounds do people believe Jesus was the Messiah? When i say Messiah i'm talking about the Jewish Messiah and the role he is supposed to play in the Jewish tradition of the coming Messianic Era.



.....................and go!

Oil. Oil symbolized the presence of God and anointing with oil was a sign that God was setting a person apart. Jesus Christ is the Messiah, God's Anointed One, the king. In the East, the act of anointing was observed when crowning a king. It is also observed when priests were dedicated. Exodus 30:30 and 31. Jesus Christ is also of the order of Melechiilia. My spelling is off. But Jesus Christ is the High Priest for ever. The current Jewish position today in Israel, that man's position is void. Jesus is the true High Priest because he recieved the postion after his resurrection and will live forever. Therefore even according to Jewish law he will always remain High Priest. The only way to lose this postion is by death. In the upcoming Messianic Era we will see him as he truely is. Look for his return.

 

[Ceridwen018]

true blood,

I could anoint my cat, but it wouldn't make him holy. Could you please explain to me the relevance of your post to the topic?

 

[true blood]

true blood,

I could anoint my cat, but it wouldn't make him holy. Could you please explain to me the relevance of your post to the topic?

In another place, another time, there lived people. They had customs different from ours.

 

[jewscout]

Oil. Oil symbolized the presence of God and anointing with oil was a sign that God was setting a person apart. Jesus Christ is the Messiah, God's Anointed One, the king. In the East, the act of anointing was observed when crowning a king. It is also observed when priests were dedicated. Exodus 30:30 and 31. Jesus Christ is also of the order of Melechiilia. My spelling is off. But Jesus Christ is the High Priest for ever. The current Jewish position today in Israel, that man's position is void. Jesus is the true High Priest because he recieved the postion after his resurrection and will live forever. Therefore even according to Jewish law he will always remain High Priest. The only way to lose this postion is by death. In the upcoming Messianic Era we will see him as he truely is. Look for his return.

Upon what do you base this on? Where in the Torah does it say that one recieves the "true" High Priest position by dying and then coming back to life? Are you arguing that he was a Cohen too?

 

[Greyprophet]

You need to read the book of Enoch. Maybe you can comprehend who the hidden was one...who the "Ancient of Days" was.

Jesus Christ is the messiah for the world...for his whole creation. Jesus was to be born threw the Jewish line (blood line), from Isreal. THis is from Abraham.

Do only the Jewish people need a messiah? Not the rest of Isreal? (where are they? Lost? Sheep?).

Does not the world need a Messiah????? WHo is the pot to take pride in itself?

Who does not think the world needs a Messiah is a moron. He or she obviously does not see the pain..the suffering...and the inevidable death at the end of the road. If there is no God....so be it...we all just got the biggest Cosmic joke ever played onus. To taste life (in a carcass..the world), and then while evil runs rampant..with no stopping it...we continue until death...and thats the end.

Sounds like a pathetic Joke to me.

So for me and My house..we have hope....our hope is Jesus Christ. The only person who ever made any damn sense...and no wonder he was and is God.

Show us the father and it will suffice us ...said Philip.

Philip,...have I been with you this long...and you still do not know who I am?? replied Jesus.

Let him who has ears tohear...hear.

 

[jewscout]

You need to read the book of Enoch. Maybe you can comprehend who the hidden was one...who the "Ancient of Days" was.

Jesus Christ is the messiah for the world...for his whole creation. Jesus was to be born threw the Jewish line (blood line), from Isreal. THis is from Abraham.

Do only the Jewish people need a messiah? Not the rest of Isreal? (where are they? Lost? Sheep?).

Does not the world need a Messiah????? WHo is the pot to take pride in itself?

Who does not think the world needs a Messiah is a moron. He or she obviously does not see the pain..the suffering...and the inevidable death at the end of the road. If there is no God....so be it...we all just got the biggest Cosmic joke ever played onus. To taste life (in a carcass..the world), and then while evil runs rampant..with no stopping it...we continue until death...and thats the end.

Sounds like a pathetic Joke to me.

So for me and My house..we have hope....our hope is Jesus Christ. The only person who ever made any damn sense...and no wonder he was and is God.

Show us the father and it will suffice us ...said Philip.

Philip,...have I been with you this long...and you still do not know who I am?? replied Jesus.

Let him who has ears tohear...hear.

Ok first off...wow:areyoucra
secondly nothing you just said made any sense

Jesus was to be born threw the Jewish line (blood line), from Isreal

says who? Where in the Tanach does it say "A dude named jesus will be born of the jewish line?"
It says a moshiach will come from the line of David through Solomon...i'd give you the quote but i think it's on this thread like 3 times so i'll let you look for it yourself.

Do only the Jewish people need a messiah? Not the rest of Isreal?

The rest of Israel? what??:areyoucra The Jewish people are Israel.

Does not the world need a Messiah?????

Yes it does and the Moshiach ben David will be a leader not just for the Jewish people but for the whole world...read Isaiah sometime

Who does not think the world needs a Messiah is a moron

A moron huh? At what point in this thread did anyone make the point that there was no need for a Moshiach? The point is to see what evidence there is that Jesus of Nazareth was the Jewish Moshiach.

If there is no G-d....so be it...we all just got the biggest Cosmic joke ever played on us

Again...wow:areyoucra This is not a discussion on the existance of the Divine but on the validity that Jesus is the promised Jewish Moshiach.
And by the way...who the duece is Philip? I've not heard of him...someone enlighten me please.

 

[HelpMe]

It says a moshiach will come from the line of David through Solomon...i'd give you the quote but i think it's on this thread like 3 times so i'll let you look for it yourself.

do you have a dispute with my response to this last page?

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

his entire life did not have to be prophesied for him to be the messiah.

His "entire life" very much looks like a late 1st century work in progress with "prophecy" reflecting nothing other than (often naive) reverse engineering in the manner of Midrash.

Septuagint?not all 'bibles' translate it to say 'virgin'.

Are you asking a question or making a statement? Clearly, not all 'bibles' translate Isaiah to say 'virgin'. It's just another case of gMt overreaching.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

You need to read the book of Enoch.

You need to understand the difference between a debate and a sermon.

 

[true blood]

Upon what do you base this on? Where in the Torah does it say that one recieves the "true" High Priest position by dying and then coming back to life? Are you arguing that he was a Cohen too?

Perhaps my wording was off. I did not mean to suggest that by dying and then coming back to life grants one the "High Priesthood". I do feel that no words will ever adequately express the perfection of God and His Word. The timing of the resurrection and Christ's presentation of himself as the firstfruits from the dead unmistakably demonstrate his resurrection. Jesus Christ fulfilled the laws of Leviticus in minute details. God in His foreknowledge arranged the law and the calendar to perfectly correspond to what Jesus Christ accomplished. The resurrection proved who he was beyond a shadow of a doubt. King and High Priest, forever. It is clear, when reading of Jesus' action after his resurrection that Jesus Christ is not God. If Jesus was God, he would be even more so after the resurrection, right? But even after the resurrection, he offered himself to God as the firstfruits of the dead, demonstrating that Jesus Christ was not and is not God. Also note that the wave-offering of the firstfruits in which the firstfruits of the spring barley harvest were presented as an offering to God in the Temple took place on the 18th, after his resurrection. Jesus did not allow Mary to touch him, because he was the firstfruits of the dead. Jesus Christ replaced that wave-offering as the true firstfruits from the dead. Normally, the priest presenting the offering would go up to the Temple to present it before the Lord. Christ would go up and as the High Priest, present himself before God as the firstfruits from the dead. Christ did this in accordance with Old Testament law. It was a public offering, performed by the priests, therefore a priest would maintain a state of ceremonial purity before bringing the offering. Besides being himself the firstfruits offering, Jesus Christ was the priest making the offering, thus showing himself as the true high priest to Israel.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

If Jesus was God, he would be even more so after the resurrection, right?

This is the evangelical equivalent of yodeling.

 

[true blood]

You need to understand the difference between a debate and a sermon.

You need to crawl back into the fell shadows you came from.