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Evidences Supporting the Biblical Flood

Hockeycowboy

Witness for Jehovah
Premium Member
It was not because a creationist. It was his interpretations were not accurate. The mass extinctions occurred over time and related to fluctuations in the ice age patterns. Organism destroyed by a flood would rot and not be preserved as he found in his observations.
No...the Flood aftermath would, and did, match his observations of frozen, shredded body parts. Because, in the Northern Lattitudes, the water which came from below and fell from above instantly froze....the atmospheric waters had surrounded the Earth, resulting in a Greenhouse Effect....but they weren't there, anymore. This resulted in sudden, drastic climate changes.

This does fit the facts of what is observed. And these animals are observed to have died together...there aren't 'layers' of graveyards, but just one, from each location.
 

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
No...the Flood aftermath would, and did, match his observations of frozen, shredded body parts. Because, in the Northern Lattitudes, the water which came from below and fell from above instantly froze....the atmospheric waters had surrounded the Earth, resulting in a Greenhouse Effect....but they weren't there, anymore. This resulted in sudden, drastic climate changes.

This does fit the facts of what is observed. And these animals are observed to have died together...there aren't 'layers' of graveyards, but just one, from each location.
Why would it instantly freeze? You must not live in an area where it gets cold. In fact if you understood science at all you would realize that you just dumped a lot of warm water at the very least on the area.
 

Faithofchristian

Well-Known Member
Global Flood evidence:

1.Vast herds, comprising perhaps millions of grazing animals, discovered within the muck fields by gold hunters in the Alaskan and Yukon regions. In the Siberian permafrost, a few have been discovered upright, with food (delicate flowers like buttercups, that only grow in temperate climates) discovered still unchewed in their mouths, like the Berezovka Mammoth. (They died instantly, not from a slow-moving ice age!)

http://www.amendez.com/Noahs Ark Articles/NAS Worldwide Mammal Massacre.pdf

The question is raised — and properly so: “How could a Global Flood cause such freezing temperatures?” Keep in mind, some of the water (not most...most were from the “vast springs” underneath the ground) came from above, from the atmosphere....the troposphere?...the mesosphere?...the stratosphere? The Bible doesn’t say, it is silent. (Maybe from all five.) But the waters above the Earth caused temperatures to be very mild, and pleasantly warm.... similar to a greenhouse effect, worldwide. (That’s why Adam & Eve could go naked, and be very comfortable.) Yes, the Bible indicates there were seasons, but apparently mild ones.

All of that drastically changed, with the break in this canopy! Temperatures would drop suddenly!

2.This project, completed by physics students of the University of Leicester, provides an interesting conclusion:

https://www.news.com.au/technology/science/university-of-leicester-physics-students-says-noahs-ark-would-have-floated-with-two-each-of-35000-species-of-animal/news-story/a7e558bc25fecf8e2865867579f05479.

And this one:

Could Noah’s Ark Float? In Theory, Yes | Science | Smithsonian

Further information:
Noah’s Ark was the focus of a major 1993 scientific study headed by Dr. Seon Hong at the world-class ship research center KRISO, based in Daejeon, South Korea. Dr. Hong’s team compared twelve hulls of different proportions to discover which design was most practical. No hull shape was found to significantly outperform the 4,300-year-old biblical design. In fact, the Ark’s careful balance is easily lost if the proportions are modified, rendering the vessel either unstable, prone to fracture, or dangerously uncomfortable.
The research team found that the proportions of Noah’s Ark carefully balanced the conflicting demands of stability (resistance to capsizing), comfort (“seakeeping”), and strength. In fact, the Ark has the same proportions as a modern cargo ship.


The study also confirmed that the Ark could handle waves as high as 100 ft (30 m). Dr. Hong is now director general of the facility and claims “life came from the sea,” obviously not the words of a creationist on a mission to promote the worldwide Flood. Endorsing the seaworthiness of Noah’s Ark obviously did not damage Dr. Hong’s credibility.

Dr. Seon Won Hong was principal research scientist when he headed up the Noah’s Ark investigation. In May 2005 Dr. Hong was appointed director general of MOERI (formerly KRISO). Dr. Hong earned a B.S. degree in naval architecture from Seoul National University and a Ph.D. degree in applied mechanics from the University of Michigan, Ann Arbor.

3.Coupled with that, the dimensions of the Ark, a 6-to-1 ratio of length to width, and 10-to-1 ratio of length to height, are exactly what is needed for a non-powered vessel of that size to maintain stability! Only in the last 2 centuries have ship builders recognized that this ratio is perfect for non-powered barge-like ships to be seaworthy. This is powerful evidence supporting a literal interpretation: How could Moses have known, in recording the event, that Noah was given such ideal dimensions? Fortunate guessing?

4.The numerous Flood legends (exceeding 250, one anthropologist says near 1,000), that share many similarities, some strikingly so, that indicates a common source.

5.Furthermore, the Bible clearly states, in Psalms 104, that the Flood was the cause of Earth’s mountains reaching such great heights. (Due to the underground waters spewing upward, and the land settling downward.) This would mean the high mountainous ranges we have today, like the Alps, the Himalayas, the Andes, and others, did not exist before the Flood; they are relatively young in formation. Some were even underwater prior to the Flood — see #6. (Not that the rocks are young, but that the features they form, are new, geologically speaking. What do we see? We observe crisp, well-defined features! If these mountains were millions of years old, we would see weathered, rounded features, due to the extreme wind and other erosion forces that they constantly endure. But we don’t! (This evidence is the easiest of all the geological facts to see...yet to me the most overlooked.)

6.[related to #5]The marine creatures discovered on the tops of many mountain ranges, even on Mt. Everest — gigantic clams, some measuring 5 feet or more across, found in the closed position, indicating (again) that these creatures experienced a catastrophic event, leading to their quick death. (Clams in natural death, die w/ their shells open.) All remain exposed....if they’re millions of years old, why aren’t they eroded, also? Because these particular ones died at the Flood!!

7.Where did all the water go? Apparently, it’s still here, at the Earth. If we again take into account what Psalms 104 reveals — that it was the Flood that caused our current topography, the very high mountains and low valleys, then the Earth’s terrain was somewhat smoother than now. (And Genesis tells us, the highest mountain was covered by around 22 ft. of the water.) It’s been determined that if the Earth was smoothed out like a billiard ball, the present water in all the ocean and lake basins would cover the planet to a depth of 2.5 miles! More than enough.....yet, scientists have discovered even more water in the Earth’s mantle, estimated to be almost 10 times as much as exists on our surface! So, that presents no obstacle!

8.The Chinese character for "boat" comprises three radically different symbols: 'vessel', 'mouth' (representing a person), and the number ''8'. Why is this significant? Because there were 8 people who survived the Flood in the Ark. Some ancient Semitic person thought the Flood Event was worthy enough, to incorporate it into their language, helping others to remember the Chinese word for boat. They didn't have a Bible to get the idea from, and I doubt Moses knew any Chinese people, to get his writing from!

Are you of the mindset that, when reading about God causing a global Flood, you don’t think He’d use His power throughout other aspects of the event? Or afterwards? Does Jehovah God have to reveal / explain everything He does?


I’ve presented a lot of evidence. Are you open-minded enough, to consider it now?

EDIT: Well, it’s been over a day since I posted, and it’s obvious some simply aren’t open-minded enough; they are so biased even to the point where they attack the poster....me....rather than debate the evidence.

Sad but expected.


If the flood of Noah's is supposedly to be the first flood of water to cover the earth. Which the flood of Noah's didn't cover the whole earth, only the area in which the wickedness of man were more concentrated at the time.

What happened for a flood of water to be covering the earth in Genesis 1:2 that here in verse 2 we find the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.

And then in verse 9 here we find God said,(Let the waters under the heaven be gathered together unto one place , and let the dry land appear, and it was so)

If the flood of Noah's is to be the first flood to ever cover the earth, Then why is this water here in Genesis 1:2,9, covering the whole earth, This flood of waters was way before Noah was even born.

So what happened for this flood of waters to be covering the earth?

So the flood of Noah's was not the first flood to happen.
The flood of Noah's didn't cover the whole earth.
The flood of Noah's only covered the area in which the wickedness of man was more concentrated at on Earth.
So why would God need to destroy the whole earth, seeing the wickedness of man was only concentrated in one area on Earth.

Or are we to believe that an all powerful God created the earth and then covered the whole earth with water, to only come back and then have the dry land appear
Which the dry land was there in the first place.
Wouldn't it have made more sense, to create the earth and put the water around the dry land, in the way it is now, Then to cover the whole earth with water and then come back and have the dry appear, Which the dry land was there in the first place?
 
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Derek500

Wish I could change this to AUD
I read a work of his and it is clear that he meant what we now call permafrost. At any rate Hibbin is far from being a reliable source and he can't seem to find any work of his from a valid source.

I am still waiting for some actual evidence.
Thanks. So the gold and bodies and bones were deposited on a flood plain in a placer deposit. That makes sense. No global flood involved.

This Hibbin guy seems like a piece of work. He couldn't even get his scientific words right 1940's. He did do some fraud. Then the author of this thread paraphrased those works by Hibbin and distorted those distorted words even further. That's basically it.
 
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ChristineM

"Be strong", I whispered to my coffee.
Premium Member
I remember reading that during the first millineum, there were so many fragments if "the one true cross" it was estimated if you could put all the pieces together, you could build a coliseum or similar giant structure. The Catholic church eventually began to crack down on fake artifacts, it had gotten so out of hand, that even they had to notice.

Or so I read. There may have been some hypoberlie in that bit, but there are references to fake "artifacts" being abundant.

I love visiting museums and old (very old) churches, history fascinates me. Some of the artifacts ive seen are beyond belief. I dont think hyperbole comes into it​
 

Audie

Veteran Member
Thanks. So the gold and bodies and bones were deposited on a flood plain in a placer deposit. That makes sense. No global flood involved.

Well really, it is a far more complex and varied
picture than that.

Nothing about the scenario fantasized by the
flashfrozen mammoth people actually fits the
data.

Unless, that is, one takes a quick glance at one
or two items that seem to fit, and ignore all the rest.

One might as well conclude that all cars in NYC are
yellow cabs, if you glance out the window, see
four of them and nothing else. Yup, it is all yellow
cabs, just like the bible says.

"Buttercups" (whatever the flowers really were)
Dont grow there now, therefore the area was tropical".

IF though, one looks at some actual scientific papers
written about the various frozen mammoth finds, it
turns out that all of the vegetation associated with
them is always that of the tundra / taiga.

It is all pretty interesting, fact generally does beat
fiction.

Too bad for those for whom the facile is more than
good enough.
 

9-10ths_Penguin

1/10 Subway Stalinist
Premium Member
Global Flood evidence:

1.Vast herds, comprising perhaps millions of grazing animals, discovered within the muck fields by gold hunters in the Alaskan and Yukon regions. In the Siberian permafrost, a few have been discovered upright, with food (delicate flowers like buttercups, that only grow in temperate climates) discovered still unchewed in their mouths, like the Berezovka Mammoth. (They died instantly, not from a slow-moving ice age!)

http://www.amendez.com/Noahs Ark Articles/NAS Worldwide Mammal Massacre.pdf

The question is raised — and properly so: “How could a Global Flood cause such freezing temperatures?” Keep in mind, some of the water (not most...most were from the “vast springs” underneath the ground) came from above, from the atmosphere....the troposphere?...the mesosphere?...the stratosphere? The Bible doesn’t say, it is silent. (Maybe from all five.) But the waters above the Earth caused temperatures to be very mild, and pleasantly warm.... similar to a greenhouse effect, worldwide. (That’s why Adam & Eve could go naked, and be very comfortable.) Yes, the Bible indicates there were seasons, but apparently mild ones.

All of that drastically changed, with the break in this canopy! Temperatures would drop suddenly!

2.This project, completed by physics students of the University of Leicester, provides an interesting conclusion:
‘Noah’s Ark would have floated’.

And this one:
Could Noah’s Ark Float? In Theory, Yes | Science | Smithsonian

Further information:
Noah’s Ark was the focus of a major 1993 scientific study headed by Dr. Seon Hong at the world-class ship research center KRISO, based in Daejeon, South Korea. Dr. Hong’s team compared twelve hulls of different proportions to discover which design was most practical. No hull shape was found to significantly outperform the 4,300-year-old biblical design. In fact, the Ark’s careful balance is easily lost if the proportions are modified, rendering the vessel either unstable, prone to fracture, or dangerously uncomfortable.
The research team found that the proportions of Noah’s Ark carefully balanced the conflicting demands of stability (resistance to capsizing), comfort (“seakeeping”), and strength. In fact, the Ark has the same proportions as a modern cargo ship.


The study also confirmed that the Ark could handle waves as high as 100 ft (30 m). Dr. Hong is now director general of the facility and claims “life came from the sea,” obviously not the words of a creationist on a mission to promote the worldwide Flood. Endorsing the seaworthiness of Noah’s Ark obviously did not damage Dr. Hong’s credibility.

Dr. Seon Won Hong was principal research scientist when he headed up the Noah’s Ark investigation. In May 2005 Dr. Hong was appointed director general of MOERI (formerly KRISO). Dr. Hong earned a B.S. degree in naval architecture from Seoul National University and a Ph.D. degree in applied mechanics from the University of Michigan, Ann Arbor.

3.Coupled with that, the dimensions of the Ark, a 6-to-1 ratio of length to width, and 10-to-1 ratio of length to height, are exactly what is needed for a non-powered vessel of that size to maintain stability! Only in the last 2 centuries have ship builders recognized that this ratio is perfect for non-powered barge-like ships to be seaworthy. This is powerful evidence supporting a literal interpretation: How could Moses have known, in recording the event, that Noah was given such ideal dimensions? Fortunate guessing?

4.The numerous Flood legends (exceeding 250, one anthropologist says near 1,000), that share many similarities, some strikingly so, that indicates a common source.

5.Furthermore, the Bible clearly states, in Psalms 104, that the Flood was the cause of Earth’s mountains reaching such great heights. (Due to the underground waters spewing upward, and the land settling downward.) This would mean the high mountainous ranges we have today, like the Alps, the Himalayas, the Andes, and others, did not exist before the Flood; they are relatively young in formation. Some were even underwater prior to the Flood — see #6. (Not that the rocks are young, but that the features they form, are new, geologically speaking. What do we see? We observe crisp, well-defined features! If these mountains were millions of years old, we would see weathered, rounded features, due to the extreme wind and other erosion forces that they constantly endure. But we don’t! (This evidence is the easiest of all the geological facts to see...yet to me the most overlooked.)

6.[related to #5]The marine creatures discovered on the tops of many mountain ranges, even on Mt. Everest — gigantic clams, some measuring 5 feet or more across, found in the closed position, indicating (again) that these creatures experienced a catastrophic event, leading to their quick death. (Clams in natural death, die w/ their shells open.) All remain exposed....if they’re millions of years old, why aren’t they eroded, also? Because these particular ones died at the Flood!!

7.Where did all the water go? Apparently, it’s still here, at the Earth. If we again take into account what Psalms 104 reveals — that it was the Flood that caused our current topography, the very high mountains and low valleys, then the Earth’s terrain was somewhat smoother than now. (And Genesis tells us, the highest mountain was covered by around 22 ft. of the water.) It’s been determined that if the Earth was smoothed out like a billiard ball, the present water in all the ocean and lake basins would cover the planet to a depth of 2.5 miles! More than enough.....yet, scientists have discovered even more water in the Earth’s mantle, estimated to be almost 10 times as much as exists on our surface! So, that presents no obstacle!

8.The Chinese character for "boat" comprises three radically different symbols: 'vessel', 'mouth' (representing a person), and the number ''8'. Why is this significant? Because there were 8 people who survived the Flood in the Ark. Some ancient Semitic person thought the Flood Event was worthy enough, to incorporate it into their language, helping others to remember the Chinese word for boat. They didn't have a Bible to get the idea from, and I doubt Moses knew any Chinese people, to get his writing from!

Are you of the mindset that, when reading about God causing a global Flood, you don’t think He’d use His power throughout other aspects of the event? Or afterwards? Does Jehovah God have to reveal / explain everything He does?


I’ve presented a lot of evidence. Are you open-minded enough, to consider it now?

EDIT: Well, it’s been over a day since I posted, and it’s obvious some simply aren’t open-minded enough; they are so biased even to the point where they attack the poster....me....rather than debate the evidence.

Sad but expected.
I find your argument hard to follow, but full of strange mental gymnastics. I don't see anything in your claims - if they're even true - that requires a worldwide flood to explain it.

OTOH, we have plenty of evidence against a recent global flood. For instance, the soils in many parts of the northern hemisphere - the parts that were under glaciers in the last ice age - were overconsolidated by those glaciers and have been undisturbed since. We can see this in the very structure and response of the soil.

A heavy weight of water on the soil wouldn't explain what we see, since water actually reduces stress in soil due to buoyancy.

The implication of all this is that the soils in, say, the Great Lakes region have definitely not been disturbed - e.g. by a massive flood - since the time that a glacier was sitting on them.

Do you think there has been an ice age since the flood?
 

Hockeycowboy

Witness for Jehovah
Premium Member
Not really. It's very unscientific. You don't have any refence to scientific articles on this issue?
On the graveyards? (Or the word “muck”?)
Graveyards, yes.

"Unless one is willing to postulate freezing temperatures across the equator, such an explanation clearly begs the question of their extinction in tropical America" (P. S. Martin and H. E. Wright, Jr., editors, Pleistocene Extinction, "Bestiary for Pleistocene Biologists," by P. S. Martin and J. E. Guilday, New Haven: Yale, 1967, p.23).


"The mysteries of extinction are so many and so baffling," wrote two archaeologists, "that it is small wonder no book in English has been written on the subject. Since 1906, when Henry Fairfield Osborn summed the matter up in his paper of fifty-odd pages, 'The Causes of Extinction of Mammalia, Eiseley [famed anthropologist] credits only two theories with contributing anything new to the discussion" (Kenneth Macgowan and Joseph Hester, Early Man in the New World, New York: Doubleday, 1962, p.202).


"The greatest riddle. . . is when, why and how did all these assorted creatures, and in such absolutely countless numbers, get killed, mashed up and frozen into this horrific indecency?" (Ivan T. Sanderson, "Riddle of the Frozen Giants," Saturday Evening Post, January 16, 1960, p. 82.)
 

Bob the Unbeliever

Well-Known Member
OK... I am not sure of your list, but with God I can say God's power caused it all to happen for all 20.

So. You are going with "Magic" as your defense?

Well. That only makes it much-much-MUCH WORSE.

Because using MAGIC? Why didn't god avoid all the killing of the baby rabbits, drowning of all the baby kittens, murdering all the baby puppies shtick?

And JUST KILL THE EVIL HUMANS INSTEAD?

*ZZZZAP* Dead Right There.

End of problem. And no drowning of all the butterflies!
 

Bob the Unbeliever

Well-Known Member
Sorry, I thought you just overlooked the quoted article, as some seem to be doing w/ other aspects of this post.

Do you really think mainstream researchers, dedicated to supporting only naturalism, would even consider Noah’s Ark a possibility, let alone performing experiments that might give the Event credibility?

Ignore the rest if you want; read the bottom references of this paper:

WWF: Korean Safety Paper

that is just sad. Funny as heck-- but sad nonetheless.
 

Bob the Unbeliever

Well-Known Member
"The greatest riddle. . . is when, why and how did all these assorted creatures, and in such absolutely countless numbers, get killed, mashed up and frozen into this horrific indecency?" (Ivan T. Sanderson, "Riddle of the Frozen Giants," Saturday Evening Post, January 16, 1960, p. 82.)

1960? 58 YEARS AGO? Oh. My. that's the funniest sh-- I have seen all week!

:p:D:p:D:D:D:sweatsmile::tearsofjoy::tongueclosed::tonguewink::tongueout::smile::tearsofjoy::tearsofjoy::tearsofjoy:
 

Bob the Unbeliever

Well-Known Member

I love visiting museums and old (very old) churches, history fascinates me. Some of the artifacts ive seen are beyond belief. I dont think hyperbole comes into it​

Agreed. I seem to remember that no "proper" Catholic Church can be utilized, unless it's properly "consecrated" (or whatever they call it).

And that includes installing some sort of ancient relic-- typically a finger-bone or some preserved hair or similar artifacts. In the building of the church proper, a reliquary would be created to house the "sacred object".

And if the building were to be sold? Another ceremony would remove the "sacred object" back to the Vatican.

The first time I read about that, I thought-- "what?" And then... "is this like the year 700 or something?"

Now to be sure-- I may be quite wrong, as I got this from various sources, including literature. And I haven't bothered to check reliable sources to see.

But that whole "sacred objects" bit seems so very... Catholic to me.

I find it kind of creepy: The knuckle bones of some long-dead guy is housed in a marble thingy up at the front, where the preacher stands...

But Different Strokes and all that.

During the Last Days of Stalin, as I understand, was housed in a glass coffin-- his corpse having been scientifically preserved via embalming, and thousands would come to where he lay, to view his corpse.

And again, I find that creepy beyond measure.

"Ee's dead, Jim, that's what 'ee is!"
"Can't you do something, Bones?"
"I'm a *doctor*, not a necromancer!"

:D
 

Vee

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
Actually? Evolution is a fact. There also happens to be a lovely Scientific Theory which explains the fact of evolution.

But, evolution IS a fact: proof is easy, too-- annual flu shots prove beyond any doubt, that viruses evolve. This proving the fact of evolution.

Another one in a similar vein: Bacteria that have evolved to be resistant to even the strongest antibiotics.

Still another example: Dog breeds. If evolution was NOT a fact? This never would have happened.

Still another example: corn. Look at the original strains-- barely edible, tiny grains mostly cob. Modern evolved corn is so evolved, some strains require humans to affect the pollination cycle-- the species has evolved beyond natural pollination.

Evolution is a fact. In spite of the intense wishes (prayers) of (some) True Believers™

Perhaps they invoked the wrong pronunciation of the name "Jesus" -- you know how picky wish-spells can be...

Please make the bacteria evolve into a dog and I'll be happy to change my mind about evolution :D
 
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