Evidences Supporting the Biblical Flood

[blü 2]

Global Flood evidence:

1.Vast herds, comprising perhaps millions of grazing animals, discovered within the muck fields by gold hunters in the Alaskan and Yukon regions. In the Siberian permafrost, a few have been discovered upright, with food (delicate flowers like buttercups, that only grow in temperate climates) discovered still unchewed in their mouths, like the Berezovka Mammoth. (They died instantly, not from a slow-moving ice age!)

if an animal drowns, then (allowing the body's variable flotation during decomposition) it settles on the bottom on its side. Perhaps you can tell me who came along later and stood them all upright, and why?

The question is raised — and properly so: “How could a Global Flood cause such freezing temperatures?”

Let's leave aside the fact that Noah's flood is based on the belief that the earth is flat with (as Genesis says) water above it and below it, which explains where in the story the water came from and where it went. Instead let's apply the rules to the real world.

So how could a Global Flood cause such freezing temperatures? Good question! It couldn't!

Let's say the rain falls from a starting level higher than Everest. That's over 8,850 m / 29,000 ft, so the rain falls at least 9 km / 5.5 miles (at least on Day 1). And the rain covers Everest in 40 days or 3,456,000 seconds, so it's falling all over the world at the rate of 1 inch / 2.5 mm per second.

What's the potential energy of that rainfall? I find on the net that "the potential energy of a cubic meter of water (1000kg) in a stratus cloud at 2000 m of elevation is about 20 MJ, or 5.5 kWh" but that much of this energy is lost through friction with the air.

In the Flood we get a cubic meter of water on every square meter of ground every 6.66 minutes, and let's say the surface of the earth has an area of 510,064,472,000,000 m².

My goodness, that's a LOT of energy ─ an UTTERLY COLOSSAL amount! ─ being released every second for 40 days! Everything would burn, or be scalded to death, rather than drown! And that includes Noah.

(Feel free to correct my maths and inputs ─ that's a quick'n'dirty calculation ─ but the principle is correct.)

We can talk about the rest when you've explained this part of it.

 

[Hockeycowboy]

And that water has been there for billions of years. The Earth was formed by colliding planetoids that had water as part of their make up. There is no way to get that water out of back into the mantle. That water does not help your claims.

It doesn't need to...the present water in the oceans and lakes was enough.

 

[Hockeycowboy]

Let's go over your claims one at a time. You did a Gish Gallop and nothing the chief flaw in it is all that it takes to refute it. I explained why you are not even wrong, which is worse than being wrong. You have no scientific evidence for your beliefs. Did you miss the post on scientific evidence?

Did you miss the sources I posted? Must have.

What I didn't post....there's enough to Google.

 

[Hockeycowboy]

if an animal drowns, then (allowing the body's variable flotation during decomposition) it settles on the bottom on its side. Perhaps you can tell me who came along later and stood them all upright, and why?
Let's leave aside the fact that Noah's flood is based on the belief that the earth is flat with (as Genesis says) water above it and below it, which explains where in the story the water came from and where it went. Instead let's apply the rules to the real world.

So how could a Global Flood cause such freezing temperatures? Good question! It couldn't!

Let's say the rain falls from a starting level higher than Everest. That's over 8,850 m / 29,000 ft, so the rain falls at least 9 km / 5.5 miles (at least on Day 1). And the rain covers Everest in 40 days or 3,456,000 seconds, so it's falling all over the world at the rate of 1 inch / 2.5 mm per second.

What's the potential energy of that rainfall? I find on the net that "the potential energy of a cubic meter of water (1000kg) in a stratus cloud at 2000 m of elevation is about 20 MJ, or 5.5 kWh" but that much of this energy is lost through friction with the air.

In the Flood we get a cubic meter of water on every square meter of ground every 6.66 minutes, and let's say the surface of the earth has an area of 510,064,472,000,000 m².

My goodness, that's a LOT of energy ─ an UTTERLY COLOSSAL amount! ─ being released every second for 40 days! Everything would burn, or be scalded to death, rather than drown! And that includes Noah.

(Feel free to correct my maths and inputs ─ that's a quick'n'dirty calculation ─ but the principle is correct.)

We can talk about the rest when you've explained this part of it.

It's obvious that you didn't even read the full post... Sad.

 

[Salvador]

Evidences Biblical Flood actually never happened:

Living ancient bristle cone pine trees > 5,000 years of age...

Australian aboriginal culture > 1,000 consecutive generations...

Native American culture > 500 consecutive generations...

Greenland and Antarctic ice core layering > 100,000 annual layers spanning 100,000 years

Human bottleneck population size > 8

 

[Subduction Zone]

It doesn't need to...the present water in the oceans and lakes was enough.

No, this is an example of nonsense. We know how old the mountains are. If you want to claim otherwise the burden of proof is upon you. If you want to learn how we know this it is a bit of a process. But that knowledge has already gone through the peer review process. Yours has not.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Did you miss the sources I posted? Must have.

What I didn't post....there's enough to Google.

You used poor sources. See if you can find a valid source that supports your claims.

Here is one big clue, if you use a site that requires its workers not to use the scientific method you will be laughed at.

 

[Subduction Zone]

It's obvious that you didn't even read the full post... Sad.

If you want others to read your posts it helps if you have valid sources, not wild speculation by the those that cannot support their claims. If an idea was not put through peer review you can be very sure that they knew it would fail it.

 

[RedhorseWoman]

Evidences Biblical Flood actually never happened:

Living ancient bristle cone pine trees > 5,000 years of age...

Australian aboriginal culture > 1,000 consecutive generations...

Native American culture > 500 consecutive generations...

Greenland and Antarctic ice core layering > 100,000 annual layers spanning 100,000 years

Human bottleneck population size > 8

We could also add that various civilizations in existence at the time of the supposed Flood show no disruptions in their existence.

Additionally, there are major logistical problems with the provisioning of the Ark for the animals as well as the maintenance of all of those animals, even if we accept Woodmorappe's estimate of only 16,000 individual animals needing to be housed within the Ark. Eight people taking care of feeding, watering, exercising, grooming, and cleaning up after 16,000 animals would require way more than 24 hours a day, and those eight people would have no time to sleep, eat, or do anything else.

I've also proposed a small "test," shall we say, to those who believe in a global Flood and who believe that vegetation could have survived for months submerged in brackish water without light. I've asked numerous believers to put a plant in a bucket, fill it with brackish water (or even totally fresh water if they preferred) and stick it in their basement or some other dark place for about a year and then come back and tell us what happened to that plant. Such a test would even eliminate the problem of the enormous pressure that would have been exerted on earth's vegetation under that huge amount of water. So far, none of them has had the courage to try this. It should be fairly simple and should, if the Flood story is true, provide at least a small amount of veracity to the tale.

 

[Hockeycowboy]

It looks like the part of the pdf article about the massive animal extinction event all reference a single book, is that correct?

No. There are quite a few. The first is Dr. Frank Hibben’s “The lost Americans “, but then You’ll see more....starting about 6 subheadings down, w/ Charles Darwin.

 

[Subduction Zone]

No. There are quite a few.

Then you should be able to find at least one proper source. This is not an unreasonable request. There should be at least one of them that went through the peer review process. That is how science has been done for quite some time.

 

[Hockeycowboy]

Others too have noted your general lack of education and thought That you were a list cause without thousands of dollars worth of education.

Who? Do you know me? Do you know what degrees I hold? You should just stop your attempts at ad hominem.

When one resorts to attacking the person, it usually reveals desperation...they have no decent counter argument.

So....thanks, I guess.

I am through
dancing with you.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Who? Do you know me? Do you know what degrees I hold? You should just stop your attempts at ad hominem.

When one resorts to attacking the person, it usually reveals desperation...they have no decent counter argument.

So....thanks, I guess.

I am through
dancing with you.

That was not an ad hom. You need to learn how to use that term correctly. Your posts tell us of your education, I do not need to know you personally. An observation is not an attack. Instead of getting overly defensive then why don't you try to learn? You have already demonstrated that you do not understand the basics of science or even what scientific evidence is.

Your last sentence indicates that you have decided to run away instead of taking me up on my offer. It looks like @Woberts called it correctly and that saddens me.

EDIT:One more point. I had to go back to the post that irritated you so much. You quote mined. That is a dishonest way of quoting others, usually used to perpetuate a falsehood. That post was short and there was no excuse to edit it. Here was the post in its entirety that you objected to so much:

"One more response on this. Others too have noted your general lack of education and thought That you were a list cause without thousands of dollars worth of education. I am more optimistic than that. I feel that it you learn the basics that you can go on to understand how and why that you are wrong.

That if anything is the opposite of arrogance."

You sir are the one with a problem with arrogance. Getting mad when your ignorance is called out after you made it obvious is defensive arrogance.

 

[Hockeycowboy]

Evidences Biblical Flood actually never happened:

Living ancient bristle cone pine trees > 5,000 years of age...

Australian aboriginal culture > 1,000 consecutive generations...

Native American culture > 500 consecutive generations...

Greenland and Antarctic ice core layering > 100,000 annual layers spanning 100,000 years

Human bottleneck population size > 8

You call that evidence? (Just words?)
Wow...ok
I’ve got > $30,000,000 in the bank. That’s evidence I’m a millionaire!

Lol.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Why do creationists so often respond with "ad hominem" when they have made their ignorance obvious and others comment upon it? The cure for ignorance is learning and one can't learn if one won't admit to one's obvious lack in education.

An ad hominem fallacy is when one attacks a person and claims that because of those flaws he is wrong. What I and others have observed are the errors and poor arguments of creationists and concluded that they are lacking in education in these matters. This is the opposite of an ad hominem. This might help:

Your logical fallacy is ad hominem

"Ad hominem attacks can take the form of overtly attacking somebody, or more subtly casting doubt on their character or personal attributes as a way to discredit their argument. The result of an ad hom attack can be to undermine someone's case without actually having to engage with it.

Example: After Sally presents an eloquent and compelling case for a more equitable taxation system, Sam asks the audience whether we should believe anything from a woman who isn't married, was once arrested, and smells a bit weird."

Or to simplify it even more "Pete is stupid so he is wrong" would be an ad hominem. Explaining how Pete is wrong and then concluding that he is stupid (and no one has gone that far here) would not be an ad hominem. If an accusation precedes an argument that would be an ad hom.

In this case worthless sources have been given and no response has been made to requests for better sources. That along with just the title of this thread tells us that the poster is rather ignorant in this area.

 

[Subduction Zone]

You call that evidence? (Just words?)
Wow...ok
I’ve got > $30,000,000 in the bank. That’s evidence I’m a millionaire!

Lol.

That evidence can all be supported by reliable sources. You could ask for reliable sources for any of them and they would be given to you. Just as I asked for reliable sources for your claims. The rule applies to both sides.

 

[Hockeycowboy]

I think it's a lost cause, @Subduction Zone. Such a shame, too. Most of them at least try to provide evidence.

Lol. Can’t post a counter argument, huh?

 

[loverofhumanity]

The Ark and the flood we Bahai's believe to be symbolical.

Stories like the crossing of the Red Sea, Adam and Eve and so on have a deep spiritual and moral significance which we can learn from should we see them as spiritual lessons.

The spiritual bankruptcy of this age has witnessed the Bible being interpreted very literally, misrepresenting it’s true purpose which is to unite man with God and bring about true love and fellowship amongst men.

In an age of materialism it is understandable that people are seeing all these events as literal and missing the moral behind it all.

Those who entered the Ark of the Covenant were saved spiritually from the flood and storms of corruption, vices and immorality which to me makes a whole lot more sense than a physical ship.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Lol. Can’t post a counter argument, huh?

You failed to post a proper argument for your claims in the first place. No refutation needed.Why do you think I keep asking for proper sources?

 

[ChristineM]

They died instantly, not from a slow-moving ice age!)

And of course flood water instantly rises from see level to above the height of Everest (over 8800 metres) while animals are thinking about chewing.

not most...most were from the “vast springs” underneath the ground) c

It is already proven that there is not enough water on earth to cause a world flood,

The marine creatures discovered on the tops of many mountain ranges, even on Mt Everest.

.
Were deposited long (many millions of years) before mankind existed,.

Where did all the water go? Apparently, it’s still here, at the Earth.

Ever heard of fluid dynamics?

The Chinese character for "boat" comprises three radically different symbols: 'vessel', 'mouth' (representing a person), and the number ''8'. Why is this significant?

What?