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Evidences Supporting the Biblical Flood

viole

Ontological Naturalist
Premium Member
Global Flood evidence:

1.Vast herds, comprising perhaps millions of grazing animals, discovered within the muck fields by gold hunters in the Alaskan and Yukon regions. In the Siberian permafrost, a few have been discovered upright, with food (delicate flowers like buttercups, that only grow in temperate climates) discovered still unchewed in their mouths, like the Berezovka Mammoth. (They died instantly, not from a slow-moving ice age!)

http://www.amendez.com/Noahs Ark Articles/NAS Worldwide Mammal Massacre.pdf

The question is raised — and properly so: “How could a Global Flood cause such freezing temperatures?” Keep in mind, some of the water (not most...most were from the “vast springs” underneath the ground) came from above, from the atmosphere....the troposphere?...the mesosphere?...the stratosphere? The Bible doesn’t say, it is silent. (Maybe from all five.) But the waters above the Earth caused temperatures to be very mild, and pleasantly warm.... similar to a greenhouse effect, worldwide. (That’s why Adam & Eve could go naked, and be very comfortable.) Yes, the Bible indicates there were seasons, but apparently mild ones.

All of that drastically changed, with the break in this canopy! Temperatures would drop suddenly!

2.This project, completed by physics students of the University of Leicester, provides an interesting conclusion:

https://www.news.com.au/technology/science/university-of-leicester-physics-students-says-noahs-ark-would-have-floated-with-two-each-of-35000-species-of-animal/news-story/a7e558bc25fecf8e2865867579f05479.

And this one:

Could Noah’s Ark Float? In Theory, Yes | Science | Smithsonian

Further information:
Noah’s Ark was the focus of a major 1993 scientific study headed by Dr. Seon Hong at the world-class ship research center KRISO, based in Daejeon, South Korea. Dr. Hong’s team compared twelve hulls of different proportions to discover which design was most practical. No hull shape was found to significantly outperform the 4,300-year-old biblical design. In fact, the Ark’s careful balance is easily lost if the proportions are modified, rendering the vessel either unstable, prone to fracture, or dangerously uncomfortable.
The research team found that the proportions of Noah’s Ark carefully balanced the conflicting demands of stability (resistance to capsizing), comfort (“seakeeping”), and strength. In fact, the Ark has the same proportions as a modern cargo ship.


The study also confirmed that the Ark could handle waves as high as 100 ft (30 m). Dr. Hong is now director general of the facility and claims “life came from the sea,” obviously not the words of a creationist on a mission to promote the worldwide Flood. Endorsing the seaworthiness of Noah’s Ark obviously did not damage Dr. Hong’s credibility.

Dr. Seon Won Hong was principal research scientist when he headed up the Noah’s Ark investigation. In May 2005 Dr. Hong was appointed director general of MOERI (formerly KRISO). Dr. Hong earned a B.S. degree in naval architecture from Seoul National University and a Ph.D. degree in applied mechanics from the University of Michigan, Ann Arbor.

3.Coupled with that, the dimensions of the Ark, a 6-to-1 ratio of length to width, and 10-to-1 ratio of length to height, are exactly what is needed for a non-powered vessel of that size to maintain stability! Only in the last 2 centuries have ship builders recognized that this ratio is perfect for non-powered barge-like ships to be seaworthy. This is powerful evidence supporting a literal interpretation: How could Moses have known, in recording the event, that Noah was given such ideal dimensions? Fortunate guessing?

4.The numerous Flood legends (exceeding 250, one anthropologist says near 1,000), that share many similarities, some strikingly so, that indicates a common source.

5.Furthermore, the Bible clearly states, in Psalms 104, that the Flood was the cause of Earth’s mountains reaching such great heights. (Due to the underground waters spewing upward, and the land settling downward.) This would mean the high mountainous ranges we have today, like the Alps, the Himalayas, the Andes, and others, did not exist before the Flood; they are relatively young in formation. Some were even underwater prior to the Flood — see #6. (Not that the rocks are young, but that the features they form, are new, geologically speaking. What do we see? We observe crisp, well-defined features! If these mountains were millions of years old, we would see weathered, rounded features, due to the extreme wind and other erosion forces that they constantly endure. But we don’t! (This evidence is the easiest of all the geological facts to see...yet to me the most overlooked.)

6.[related to #5]The marine creatures discovered on the tops of many mountain ranges, even on Mt. Everest — gigantic clams, some measuring 5 feet or more across, found in the closed position, indicating (again) that these creatures experienced a catastrophic event, leading to their quick death. (Clams in natural death, die w/ their shells open.) All remain exposed....if they’re millions of years old, why aren’t they eroded, also? Because these particular ones died at the Flood!!

7.Where did all the water go? Apparently, it’s still here, at the Earth. If we again take into account what Psalms 104 reveals — that it was the Flood that caused our current topography, the very high mountains and low valleys, then the Earth’s terrain was somewhat smoother than now. (And Genesis tells us, the highest mountain was covered by around 22 ft. of the water.) It’s been determined that if the Earth was smoothed out like a billiard ball, the present water in all the ocean and lake basins would cover the planet to a depth of 2.5 miles! More than enough.....yet, scientists have discovered even more water in the Earth’s mantle, estimated to be almost 10 times as much as exists on our surface! So, that presents no obstacle!

8.The Chinese character for "boat" comprises three radically different symbols: 'vessel', 'mouth' (representing a person), and the number ''8'. Why is this significant? Because there were 8 people who survived the Flood in the Ark. Some ancient Semitic person thought the Flood Event was worthy enough, to incorporate it into their language, helping others to remember the Chinese word for boat. They didn't have a Bible to get the idea from, and I doubt Moses knew any Chinese people, to get his writing from!

Are you of the mindset that, when reading about God causing a global Flood, you don’t think He’d use His power throughout other aspects of the event? Or afterwards? Does Jehovah God have to reveal / explain everything He does?


I’ve presented a lot of evidence. Are you open-minded enough, to consider it now?

EDIT: Well, it’s been over a day since I posted, and it’s obvious some simply aren’t open-minded enough; they are so biased even to the point where they attack the poster....me....rather than debate the evidence.

Sad but expected.

Did you use large caps in the hope that people would take this seriously?

Ciao

- viole
 

viole

Ontological Naturalist
Premium Member
Because, for the last 2 centuries, the veracity of the Bible has been under constant attack.

Well, we sort of stop doing that here in Europe. There are still some older than 8 who literally believe in floods, prophets living three days in big tunas and garden of edens, and stuff like that, but they have become irrelevant in the meantime. Obviously.

Ciao

- viole
 

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
Wrong, right off the bat!
It shows you didn't read the OP

"He who gives an answer before he hears, It is folly and shame to him." -Proverbs 18:3, NASB
No need to read the OP. We know that Everest has been roughly that height for all of man's existence. You are the one that claims settled science, science that is strongly supported by evidence is wrong. That puts the burden of proof upon you.

Think of it this way, if I claimed that gravity was variable and posted some nonsense that barely fits that idea I could not claim that I showed that gravity varies. I would have to do much more than that.
 

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
Most do not want to explore any interpretation allowing for a supernatural answer! They discount it out of hand!

Just like many of these replies I'm getting here....it's obvious they didn't read the entire post!

You even said so....appreciate the honesty.
If you had read past Darwin's quote, you would have found newer references.
When no evidence is given for an idea it can be discounted out of hand. Hitchen's Law, that which is proposed without any evidence can be dismissed without any evidence. This is why you should first learn what is and what is not evidence.
 

PuerAzaelis

Unknown Friend
I suppose it would be clever to ask what the evidence is for the validity of Hitchens' Razor, so I will refrain.
 

Hockeycowboy

Witness for Jehovah
Premium Member
At least thanks for providing a counter argument w/ references....other than just ranting and raving!

Living ancient bristle cone pine trees > 5,000 years of age...

As per your link, on pg. 729, it says "> 4,000 years of age."
And that the oldest known tree is "Currey Tree," which is close to 4900 years of age.

You're close, but you misrepresented it. (Hey, it's your link.) Why?
It's neither here nor there, though.... it still fits an interpretation of the Flood timeline.

As far as the genetic/generational evidence, I'll get back to this.
I know genetics are pretty accurate in discovering from where a person's ancestors originated, but as to how far back the lineage goes, I'm sure there are problems and discrepancies with that. Genetics is a relatively new field, I know you're aware of this.
 

Shad

Veteran Member
Global Flood evidence:

1.Vast herds, comprising perhaps millions of grazing animals, discovered within the muck fields by gold hunters in the Alaskan and Yukon regions. In the Siberian permafrost, a few have been discovered upright, with food (delicate flowers like buttercups, that only grow in temperate climates) discovered still unchewed in their mouths, like the Berezovka Mammoth. (They died instantly, not from a slow-moving ice age!)


This is uncorroborated.


 

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
At least thanks for providing a counter argument w/ references....other than just ranting and raving!



As per your link, on pg. 729, it says "> 4,000 years of age."
And that the oldest known tree is "Currey Tree," which is close to 4900 years of age.

You're close, but you misrepresented it. (Hey, it's your link.) Why?
It's neither here nor there, though.... it still fits an interpretation of the Flood timeline.

As far as the genetic/generational evidence, I'll get back to this.
I know genetics are pretty accurate in discovering from where a person's ancestors originated, but as to how far back the lineage goes, I'm sure there are problems and discrepancies with that. Genetics is a relatively new field, I know you're aware of this.

One thing that you need to do for your flood claim is to give a reasonable date for the flood. You have been all over the place in dating it, which once again indicates that you are grasping at straws. But if you don't like that one there is this link:

The world's 10 oldest living trees

It does give a date and that is 4,848 years old. And it mentions an even older tree whose location is being kept secret to protect it from tourists.

And then there is the science of dendrochornology. The last I heard they could go back well over 10,000 years by matching tree rings between living and dead trees:

Dendrochronology - Wikipedia

Oops, make that 12,400 years back. Read the article. So that is no flood in the last 12,400 years. And yes, some trees are unreliable and can give either more than one ring a year or skip a year. Guess what? Scientists are not idiots and they avoid such trees for dendrochronology. So please, no strawmannig of that science.
 

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
Or so you’ve been led to believe.

I just posted evidence.
No, you posted disconnected ideas that do not support a central thesis. This is why it is extremely important to understand the concept of "evidence" and scientific evidence is a concept that is clearly defined. One first needs a testable hypothesis. If observations agree with your hypothesis that is evidence for it. If observations go against your hypothesis that is evidence against it. Using a hypothesis forces people to clearly state their beliefs instead of making an ad hoc explanation that changes every time a major objection is brought against it.

I try to get flood believers to learn what is and what is not evidence not only so that they will see the truth. It also makes them better debaters, if they are right.
 

Skwim

Veteran Member
I try to get flood believers to learn what is and what is not evidence not only so that they will see the truth. It also makes them better debaters, if they are right.
Trouble is, they're capable of recognizing real evidence for what it is, but assiduously reject its use because of what it will do to their beliefs. No fundie Christian wants, or even dares, to use real evidence to back up their contentions. It's simply too dangerous. Therefore we get all kinds of pseudo-science, misconstrued notions, and faulty logic scattered about on which to preform their tap dance. It's not pretty to read, but it's all they have.

.
 

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
Trouble is, they're capable of recognizing real evidence for what it is, but assiduously reject its use because of what it will do to their beliefs. No fundie Christian wants, or even dares, to use real evidence to back up their contentions. It's simply too dangerous. Therefore we get all kinds of pseudo-science, misconstrued notions, and faulty logic scattered about on which to preform their tap dance. It's not pretty to read, but it's all they have.

.
I know. Fear that they are wrong is what appears to drive their inability to reason. And that is why many of them also tend to get very angry when others recognize their self imposed ignorance. They have to keep themselves from understanding the sciences to maintain their false beliefs.
 

Hockeycowboy

Witness for Jehovah
Premium Member
Trouble is, they're capable of recognizing real evidence for what it is, but assiduously reject its use because of what it will do to their beliefs. No fundie Christian wants, or even dares, to use real evidence to back up their contentions. It's simply too dangerous. Therefore we get all kinds of pseudo-science, misconstrued notions, and faulty logic scattered about on which to preform their tap dances. It's not pretty, but it's all they have.

.
I just posted evidence. Many evidences.

Now you're just consoling yourselves...I guess you believe if you belittle the opposition enough, you're pov's will poof into truth, and you'll scare others into submission.

Attack the evidence I presented, not me! Grief!
 

Skwim

Veteran Member
I know. Fear that they are wrong is what appears to drive their inability to reason. And that is why many of them also tend to get very angry when others recognize their self imposed ignorance. They have to keep themselves from understanding the sciences to maintain their false beliefs.
And not to too fine a point on it, but some are simply too dense to get it.---not talking about you, Hockeycowboy. I'm sure you sat at the top of your graduating class. . . . . well, pretty sure anyway. ;)

.
 
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