Evidences Supporting the Biblical Flood

[Audie]

You are so, so correct. As I mentioned previously, I at one time believed in the Flood story. Then when I moved to a semi-rural area and acquired horses, I discovered from actual experience in dealing with livestock that many issues concerning the Ark and its supposed cargo were impossible to resolve in any logical manner.

Things began to snowball after that, and I began to consider other issues that I had never thought about previously, and the more I considered various details, the less I believed that the Flood could have actually occurred.

Interesting! Growing up in HK wherr Christians are a
foreign minority and with a total atheist Mom I've no
deep planted memory of a simple faith. The flood story
was like other primitive tribal tales, like the giant dropping
mountain or the.. you know.

You had so much to overcome, I missed the dawning epiphany.

Interesting too your way of realizing it. Pure refined essence of city
girl* here so you've practicsl experience in details I would not know
about.

My pov has more to do with biology / geology courses.

A sailor would see the need for a lot of magic, to kerp that
boat afloat!

A phyicist would come up with his details.

* I do have a friend from U who so graciously invited
me to her family ranch in Wyoming. What a powerful
experience! The land and sky, only sound is the wind.
Incredible. They gave me a gentle horse, to ride in
my new size 6 cowgirl boots, and hat.

I suppose from far enough away, I might have looked
as if I belonged there.

 

[Audie]

First, i didn't say 'all' were found standing upright...I didn't even say 'many'. I said "a few".

Though it's accepted, don't apologize... just read the rest please.

All are in various stages of decay, and most were
scavenged before burial.

 

[Jose Fly]

What do you propose?

The same thing I've been suggesting for weeks now, i.e., that you discuss and address the specific geologic conditions around uplift mountain ranges and describe how the data is better explained by your scenario than by what geologists have been saying for quite some time now

Do you want me to post about the type of rock that exists on, say, Mt Everest's peak? Alright....it rose from the sea (marine creatures on top)

Wait....I thought you said earlier that mountains were formed when "the valleys fell". Now you seem to be saying something different. Can you clarify?

it's mostly limestone. Now, tell me please: is limestone easy to erode? Yes, extremely! It's not like basalt.

So is it worn-down? No, it exhibits well-defined, sharp characteristics! (Not giving a weathered appearance ) This even enhances the hypothesis I support.

You said you've taken geology courses, so you should appreciate the significance of what I'm about to bring up....what's the orientation of the strata in the Himalayan peaks?

And btw, earlier I posted some material showing how it was European Christian geologists who realized and wrote about how the geologic data didn't support the Biblical flood. You told me you would save it and read it later. How's that going?

 

[Audie]

The same thing I've been suggesting for weeks now, i.e., that you discuss and address the specific geologic conditions around uplift mountain ranges and describe how the data is better explained by your scenario than by what geologists have been saying for quite some time now


Wait....I thought you said earlier that mountains were formed when "the valleys fell". Now you seem to be saying something different. Can you clarify?


You said you've taken geology courses, so you should appreciate the significance of what I'm about to bring up....what's the orientation of the strata in the Himalayan peaks?

And btw, earlier I posted some material showing how it was European Christian geologists who realized and wrote about how the geologic data didn't support the Biblical flood. You told me you would save it and read it later. How's that going?

When I was living in a Crown Colony, a
Scottish Presbytrrian lady told me the
mountains were formed when the earth
cooled and wrinkled.

"Like a wisened apple." as she put it.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Let's just reverse this a wee bit, okay? Rather than talking about "miraculously saving" those eight individuals, why don't we consider why God didn't destroy all of the wicked PEOPLE rather than destroying all life (animal, human, and plant) by means of a huge Flood...and then eliminating all of the evidence so that it could never be proven to have occurred?

There have been people who in a coma for long periods of time survived.
Just because we don't know the Flood details does Not mean God could Not have used divine involvement.
We know that there are diseases that developed when people had sex with animals.
For all we know those perverted pre-flood people had something to do with such things.
All perishable evidence (except for what was on the Ark) did perish, but pre-flood artifacts still remain.
I do wonder why you say you are a Christian when you don't even believe Matthew 24:37-38 ______
Christians believe 2 Timothy 3:16-17 that God, as Author, inspired the Bible.

 

[Audie]

There have been people who in a coma for long periods of time survived.
Just because we don't know the Flood details does Not mean God could Not have used divine involvement.
We know that there are diseases that developed when people had sex with animals.
For all we know those perverted pre-flood people had something to do with such things.
All perishable evidence (except for what was on the Ark) did perish, but pre-flood artifacts still remain.
I do wonder why you say you are a Christian when you don't even believe Matthew 24:37-38 ______
Christians believe 2 Timothy 3:16-17 that God, as Author, inspired the Bible.

"Blind faith"

 

[nPeace]

You are right that erosion does transform mountains. The Appalachians have been transformed over millions of years and are older than the rockys which were formed millions of years ago. They represent two different events separated by millions of years. Formed when continental formations collide not by floods. Weathering is a very slow process. None of this supports a flood as a cause.

Was the argument about eroding mountains by a flood?
I wasn't aware that argument was being made. I thought it was about the relative age of mountains. I must have misunderstood.

Mountain Erosion
The tectonic forces that lead to mountain building are continuously countered by erosion due to intensified precipitation, wind and temperature extremes. These elements, aided by the force of gravity, are particularly powerful along the mountain ranges which form a barrier to the prevailing westerly winds that buffet New Zealand.

Imagine all the elements at work in an intense storm in the mountains. Gale force winds, lightning strikes, temperature extremes and a deluge of snow, hail or rain. These combined forces break up the rocks and erode the peaks into their stark, sculpted forms.

Falling ice, rocks and gushing water wear away at the mountain slopes. The ice and rock debris accumulates in the valleys and flows downwards as slow moving glaciers. When these melt, piles of rock debris called moraines are left behind.

• Strong winds pick up dust and abrade exposed rock surfaces.
• Lightning instantly vaporizes water and ice in rock fissures and literally blows rocks apart.
• Temperature changes thaw out and refreeze the ice in rock fissures, wedging them apart, whilst thermal expansion and contraction disintegrates exposed rock surfaces.
• Rock falls and ice avalanches scour mountain sides, further eroding the slopes.

The powerful earthquakes that are responsible for the uplift of New Zealand’s mountains also destabilise them, causing many rock falls and avalanches that help to wear them down.

These forces can cut a mountain peaks down quicker than it's built.
Taking that information, and transcending it back millions of years...
Please, show me an image that give evidence of erosion that took place millions of years ago.

Where are the countless rivers that should have formed?
What changes do we see on the highest mountains in just 86 years?

In realtime we can capture erosion.... and glaciers don't play.

A glacier's weight, combined with its gradual movement, can drastically reshape the landscape over hundreds or even thousands of years. The ice erodes the land surface and carries the broken rocks and soil debris far from their original places, resulting in some interesting glacial landforms.

One of the most striking examples of glaciated valleys can be seen in Yosemite National Park, where glaciers literally sheared away mountainsides, creating deep valleys with vertical walls.

Spoiler: Mysterious Glaciers

Glacier surges have both fascinated and perplexed scientists for decades. "If you think of glaciers as a bank account, then a surge is a massive spending spree," Kääb says. All glaciers have to shed mass that has accumulated in their upper reaches. "Some glaciers just flow faster, but others are unable to for whatever reasons," he says. "They are kind of stuck until the mass accumulated for decades or even centuries gets unleashed in a spectacular way."

Just over 1% of our planet's glaciers—some 2300 in all—are known to undergo these precipitous movements, though the number is likely to rise as glaciers come under closer surveillance by remote sensing. They are concentrated in geographic hot spots including Svalbard, Canada's Yukon territory, Alaska, western Tibet, and the Karakoram and Pamir mountain ranges of Central Asia. This geographic pattern only deepens the puzzle. For instance, some experts think glaciers in the Karakoram are prone to surging because of their steepness; as mass builds up from heavy snowfalls near the top of a glacier, for example, gravity alone may trigger a surge. But this cannot explain why Svalbard, where the terrain is relatively flat, abounds in surging glaciers.

Even glaciers right next to each other can have totally different personalities. Jack Kohler, a glaciologist at the Norwegian Polar Institute in Tromsø, points to a pair of adjacent, massive glaciers on Svalbard: Kongsvegen and Kronebreen. "They are like twin brothers, but one surges and the other one doesn't," Kohler says. "It's a total mystery."

When I picture mountains millions of years ago. I don't see them.
Like everything else, mountains are born, grow, and die - become hills, and the cycle continues.
This is the way I see it.

How long does it take to erode away a mountain?
Disappearing Mountains

What about growth rate?
Can mountains shoot up rapidly?
That was the purpose of my post on how tectonic plate movement could have occurred very rapidly.
I don't understand what the problem with it was. Anyways...

Fast-Growing Mountains
The most dramatic relief found on any of the continents, a difference of 22,740 feet between the Indus River in Pakistan and the summit of Nanga Parbat just 14 miles away, evolved through very rapid uplift, relatively speaking, of the mountains in that region, according to studies of tracks left in the rocks by particles ejected from atoms subjected to radioactive decay. The mountains appear to have risen an average of almost a half inch a year over the past million years, though erosion has prevented a corresponding growth in their total height.


The Sierra Nevada is an asymmetrical range with its crest and high peaks decidedly toward the east. The peaks range from 11,000 to 14,000 feet (3,350 to 4,270 metres) above sea level, with Mount Whitney, at 14,494 feet (4,418 metres), the highest peak in the coterminous United States. Summits in the northern portion are much lower, those north of Lake Tahoe reaching altitudes of only 7,000 to 9,000 feet.


The Sierra Nevada mountain range is growing at a rapid pace, says new research.
The team of researchers from the University of Nevada's geodetic laboratory in Reno and the University of Glasgow in the UK, found the mountains growing at about half an inch every 10 years.

This is about one to two millimeters per year along the entire range, reported MSNBC.

"Our data indicate that uplift is ... active and could have generated the entire range in less than 3 million years, which is young compared to estimates based on some other techniques," said lead researcher Bill Hammond,of the University of Nevada, according to the Associated Press.

"It basically means that the latest pulse of uplift is still ongoing."

Using GPS data and space-based radar, the researchers were able to get pinpoint accuracy.

"The exciting thing is we can watch the range growing in real time," said Hammond, according to Red Orbit.

"Using data back to before 2000 we can see it with accuracy better than one millimeter per year. Perhaps even more amazing is that these minuscule changes are measured using satellites in space."

The study suggests that the mountains likely formed less than three million years ago making them comparatively young.


Fast -forming mountain ranges
We usually assume that mountain ranges take tens of millions of years to form …
Mountain ranges are so big, and continental plates move so slowly, that common wisdom suggests they must take millions of years to form. This seems to have been confirmed in the past with limited data sets that show the timing of their uplift; however, a recent paper in Science and another in Earth and Planetary Science Letters have suggested that uplift may occur much more rapidly in some cases.
.............
Of course, isotopic data from precipitation could also be indicative of a changing climate. In particular, the changes in the δ18O composition they see could be indicative of enrichment of heavier isotopes by evaporation. This is where the carbonate δ18O data come in. These data indicate that, despite evidence for increased aridity, the trends in carbonate δ18O are opposite what one would expect if there was an increase in evaporation. They conclude that the central Andean plateau may have risen 1500m in as little as one million years.

Traveling half way around the world to Tibet, we are presented with a similar story. An article published in the June 15th issue of Earth and Planetary Science Letters suggests that the Tibetan plateau may have risen much more rapidly than previously thought. Similar to the Andean plateau, most people believe the Tibetan plateau rose to its present elevation over tens of millions of years, but this study suggests that much of that elevation may have developed over the past two to three million years.

This study looked at isotopic data from the enamel of herbivores living two to three million years ago and compared it to the same isotopic data from modern herbivores. This isotopic data is indicative of the plants these animals were eating. The shift in δ13C from -12.0‰ to -7.9‰ indicates a shift in plants from C3 to mixed C3 and C4 grasses. This is consistent with a warmer climate and lower elevation. These δ13C data are supported by δ18O data that also point toward a warmer, wetter climate. They conclude that the Tibetan plateau was 2700m below its present elevation 2-3 million years ago.

 

[RedhorseWoman]

There have been people who in a coma for long periods of time survived.
Just because we don't know the Flood details does Not mean God could Not have used divine involvement.
We know that there are diseases that developed when people had sex with animals.
For all we know those perverted pre-flood people had something to do with such things.
All perishable evidence (except for what was on the Ark) did perish, but pre-flood artifacts still remain.
I do wonder why you say you are a Christian when you don't even believe Matthew 24:37-38 ______
Christians believe 2 Timothy 3:16-17 that God, as Author, inspired the Bible.

It is not necessary to believe that everything in the Bible is literal in order to be Christian. Spirituality doesn't need to be bound to myths in order to be valid.

 

[nPeace]

There are different theories on explaining marine lifeforms on mountains and plateaus.

Scientists say ocean fossils found in mountains are cause for concern over future sea levels

Scientists have found fossils of whales and other marine animals in mountain sediments in the Andes, indicating that the South American mountain chain rose very rapidly from the sea.

A STUDENT TRIES TO EXPLAIN WHY THERE ARE SEASHELLS ON TOP OF MOUNT EVEREST AND THE FORMATION OF THE HIMALAYAN MOUNTAINS
A clinical interview with a bright student reveals a common misconception about how shells were embedded into the rocks on the top of Mount Everest: the sea level was much higher in the past. While it is true that sea level varies over geologic time, scientist Britt Argow describes the current scientific interpretation of the Mount Everest fossil shells. She claims that plate tectonic activity - the collision of the Indian Plate with the Asian Plate 40 million years ago - pushed former seafloor skyward, creating the Himalayan mountain range.
BRITT ARGOW
It turns out that half a billion years ago, the African
plate slammed into North America. When the two slabs of continental
material collided, it drove the Green Mountains skyward. Scientists
like Keith Klepeis believe that although Clay Point is relatively far
away from where the plates collided, it still was affected by the
enormous pressure of that collusion

 

[RedhorseWoman]

Interesting! Growing up in HK wherr Christians are a
foreign minority and with a total atheist Mom I've no
deep planted memory of a simple faith. The flood story
was like other primitive tribal tales, like the giant dropping
mountain or the.. you know.

You had so much to overcome, I missed the dawning epiphany.

Interesting too your way of realizing it. Pure refined essence of city
girl* here so you've practicsl experience in details I would not know
about.

My pov has more to do with biology / geology courses.

A sailor would see the need for a lot of magic, to kerp that
boat afloat!

A phyicist would come up with his details.

* I do have a friend from U who so graciously invited
me to her family ranch in Wyoming. What a powerful
experience! The land and sky, only sound is the wind.
Incredible. They gave me a gentle horse, to ride in
my new size 6 cowgirl boots, and hat.

I suppose from far enough away, I might have looked
as if I belonged there.

It's unfortunate that so many people live in what is almost a vacuum, never experiencing real-life interactions with the earth and animals. A few years of stall mucking teaches you that animals standing on wet dirty bedding for months are going to be in serious trouble.

Seeing hay that has inadvertently gotten wet or that wasn't cured properly at the start turn black and moldy and learning that that mold can quickly kill an animal, or learning about how that improperly cured, damp hay can spontaneously combust (or even feeling the heat buildup in the center of that hay bale before it bursts into flame) gives a whole new perspective to the problems that would have arisen in a damp and dark wooden box over a period of months where hay would have had to be piled thickly and compactly in order to fit it all in.

Knowing, too, that last year's hay is not really going to give your horses much in the way of nutrition and considering how nutritionally deficient the hay stores would have been for the animals in the Ark if Noah had been accumulating provisions for years prior to the Flood, gives one pause.

And the list goes on. The more you learn the less credence you can give to belief in a worldwide Flood...and the more you learn, the more you want to check out other things that at one time you simply accepted as true because you were taught from the Bible.

Wyoming is a beautiful state. I live in the Northeast where it is quite populated, but I'm fortunate that I was able to move out to a semi-rural area where most people have sufficient land to keep horses or cows or goats or sheep or pretty much any other type of livestock they desire.

My avatar shows three of my horses...my Peruvian...my Tennessee Walker...and my Quarter Horse.

 

[Hockeycowboy]

All are in various stages of decay, and most were
scavenged before burial.

Yes. The Arctic has experienced warmer-than-usual summers several times in the past 5,000 yrs.....allowing these carcasses to thaw somewhat.

They’re thawing now.

 

[Audie]

Yes. The Arctic has experienced warmer-than-usual summers several times in the past 5,000 yrs.....allowing these carcasses to thaw somewhat.

They’re thawing now.

Of course, even if there were sufficiently warm
periods of time in those years to thaw deep
into the ground,that would hardly explain
why this catastrophic event you imagine
would allow time for scavengers to work on them.

I wonder if those wolves had titanium carbide teeth
and hydraulic jaws, to gnaw meat frozen to 200
below zero. What do you think?


Unless your scheme involves multiple burials,
thaw and refreeze cycles.

You only made up an excuse for the decay,
skipping the scavengers. Some reason for that?


You've no data to indicate this drastic thaw-refreeze,
so of course it is simply ad hoc, you made it up.

If you actually studied the subject instead of inventing things
as they suit you, you would find that the permafrost has
been continuously frozen for many tens of thousands
of years, and is only now experiencing a thaw unprecedented
since the onset of the last glacial period.

In the event, nothing about the carcasses supporrs
a "flash freeze".

Animals such as a muskox that can survive wind
chills deeper than 100 below zero F would be
tough to flash freeze.

You keep forgetting to address this properly-

clams, some measuring 5 feet or more across, found in the closed position, indicating (again) that these creatures experienced a catastrophic event,

You have admitted that closed is the normal and expected
condition for a clam buried in the mud which s, after all,
where they live.

Other than half-shells, you'd have a very hard time finding
any dead clam, fossil or otherwise, that is not closed.

This particular phony bit of "flood" evidence" does not
disprove the "flood", in itself. You've no need to
(bitterly) cling to it. All you do is look silly if
(since?) you do.

 

[Audie]

It's unfortunate that so many people live in what is almost a vacuum, never experiencing real-life interactions with the earth and animals. A few years of stall mucking teaches you that animals standing on wet dirty bedding for months are going to be in serious trouble.

Seeing hay that has inadvertently gotten wet or that wasn't cured properly at the start turn black and moldy and learning that that mold can quickly kill an animal, or learning about how that improperly cured, damp hay can spontaneously combust (or even feeling the heat buildup in the center of that hay bale before it bursts into flame) gives a whole new perspective to the problems that would have arisen in a damp and dark wooden box over a period of months where hay would have had to be piled thickly and compactly in order to fit it all in.

Knowing, too, that last year's hay is not really going to give your horses much in the way of nutrition and considering how nutritionally deficient the hay stores would have been for the animals in the Ark if Noah had been accumulating provisions for years prior to the Flood, gives one pause.

And the list goes on. The more you learn the less credence you can give to belief in a worldwide Flood...and the more you learn, the more you want to check out other things that at one time you simply accepted as true because you were taught from the Bible.

Wyoming is a beautiful state. I live in the Northeast where it is quite populated, but I'm fortunate that I was able to move out to a semi-rural area where most people have sufficient land to keep horses or cows or goats or sheep or pretty much any other type of livestock they desire.

My avatar shows three of my horses...my Peruvian...my Tennessee Walker...and my Quarter Horse.

Wyoming is beautiful, yes.
And yes, a lot of people never experience
much of what you live with. Me included.

My cities are New York, and Hong Kong.
I'd have the difficulties finding my way in
Wyoming that you might have finding yours
in Hong Kong.

Which I guess is by way of saying it wont
happen.

 

[Audie]

First, i didn't say 'all' were found standing upright...I didn't even say 'many'. I said "a few".

Though it's accepted, don't apologize... just read the rest please.

Give us a link to even one that is upright.

 

[Hockeycowboy]

I wonder if those wolves had titanium carbide teeth and hydraulic jaws, to gnaw meat frozen to 200
below zero. What do you think?

What do I think? I think you're building strawman....now it's "200 below zero."

Why are you resorting to this?

You've no data to indicate this drastic thaw-refreeze,

Lol. No, only the initial freeze was "drastic"....nothing about thawing and refreezing is drastic.


"If you actually studied the subject instead of inventing things
as they suit you...."

Me inventing? You're the one stating "200 degrees below". 'If I actually studied'? Your attempts at berating me, say more about you than me.

"....the permafrost has
been continuously frozen for many tens of thousands
of years, and is only now experiencing a thaw unprecedented
since the onset of the last glacial period."

How do you know? Can you tell when ice has thawed, then refreezes?

Since the Earth's climate is constantly changing, and records have only been kept for just over 130 years; and since the Permafrost can range from 1 meter thick (in sub-Arctic) to more than 1,000 meters (in Arctic) .. and then there's the alpine Permafrost .. I'd say your assessment of it being "continuously frozen" in the lower latitudes is inaccurate.

Don't misrepresent my posts anymore.

And I answered your clam objection, already.

But I realize that, although the clam / oyster adductor muscle deteriates at death allowing the dead clam's shell to open in a normal death, with a giant clam, the shell could stay closed in a normal death too, simply because the weight of the shell would keep it closed.

Though that would occur even if death was the result of being uplifted out of the water (the ground under it, rising)...a sudden death.

It would be hard to determine, probably.

I'm looking for other papers on it.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

It is not necessary to believe that everything in the Bible is literal in order to be Christian. Spirituality doesn't need to be bound to myths in order to be valid.

Then it would seem to me what Jesus believed at Matthew 24:37-38 about Noah's day, then is Not necessary to be a Christian.
I am wondering how does one accurately pick and choose which of Jesus' teachings to accept.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

"Blind faith"

Blind faith is credulity, so, to me you are saying Jesus had credulity.
Jesus based his teachings on the old Hebrew Scriptures often referring to them.
Jesus proved to be the promised ' seed ' (offspring) of Genesis 3:15
Earth's turmoil today is as it was in Noah's day.
So, whether one takes the Ark account as real or not, what Jesus warns about is real.
Mankind today can't dig himself out of earth's turmoil.
That leaves only Matthew 24:14 as man's alternate government of Daniel 2:44 to the rescue.
Only Jesus, as Prince of Peace and King of God's kingdom government, can and will usher in global Peace on Earth.

 

[Hockeycowboy]

Give us a link to even one that is upright.

Howorth, H.H., The mammoths in Siberia, Geological Magazine 7, p. 551–552, 1880.....
Excerpt:

"The same conclusion was arrived at by [Johann Friedrich von] Brandt, from a consideration of the fact that the bodies and skeletons of Mammoths are sometimes found standing upright, as if they had sunk in that position into the soft ground. This was the case with the specimen found by Ssarytschef, near Alansk … with a skeleton found about 1827 near Petersburgh, as reported to Brandt by Pander; a third which was found in the peninsula of the Obi, fifty versts from the mouth of the Yerambei; and a fourth found in the government of Moscow, all of which are discussed by Brandt."

There are more....

 

[Hockeycowboy]

All are in various stages of decay, and most were
scavenged before burial.

Not "all".

Grief, you love to make sweeping generalizations, don't you?

Have you ever read about the quality of the ivory on some of those discovered mammoths?

Here's an excerpt from an article...

"The existence of ivory in Siberia in a sub-fossil condition, but still sufficiently durable to be used for all the purposes to which recent ivory is applied, has been known since the middle ages, and formed one of the earliest exports from Siberia to China. The very name given to the gigantic creature which produced it, Mammoth or Mammont---probably a corruption of Behemoth---was introduced by the Arab traders who initiated the traffic in fossil ivory in the tenth century. It was not, however, until the middle of the eighteenth century that the trade became considerable. In or about 1750, Liachof, a Russian merchant, discovered vast stores of elephant tusks and bones in the northern districts of Siberia, and especially on the islands off the mouth of the Lena, which have since borne his name. The ivory brought thence, says the traveller Wrangell, "is often as fresh and white as that from Africa." Since Liachof's discovery it has been computed that the tusks of at least twenty thousand mammoths have been exported, while an even larger number are too much decayed to be worth removal, and others are so large that they have to be sawn up on the spot where they are found. These buried hecatombs of elephants abound throughout the frozen soil of Siberia, but they are more numerous the further we advance northwards, and most plentiful of all on the islands above named and in those termed New Siberia. More remarkable still are the mammoth mummies--- several of which have been disinterred, whole carcases not unfrequently standing upright in the frozen soil, with their flesh "as fresh as if just taken out of an Esquimaux cache or a Yakout subterranean meat-safe." The most widely known of these is that discovered in 1806 by an English botanist named Adams, and the skeleton, or such parts of it as could be recovered---for in the interval between part of it being laid bare and the information reaching Adams wild animals had preyed on the flesh and carried off many of the bones---ls now in the museum at St. Petersburg. Caresses of rhinoceros have also been found under similar conditions. It is agreed on all hands that these bodies must have been submitted to "continuous congelation without a break" ever since they died; in other words, the catastrophe which slew them must also have buried them and so changed the climate that their flesh ban been preserved to the present day. Mr. Howorth shows, we think conclusively, that the animals lived in Siberia, and were not transported thither after death from some other place. The bones show no appearance of detrition; the largest numbers and those in the finest condition are found at a distance from the rivers; and, farther, their numbers decrease as we go farther south. Again, though the climate could not have been as cold while they were alive as it is now; it is evident that it was by no means a warm one; for there is ample evidence that they were protected by a thick coating of hair and wool. Collateral proof of a change in the climate is afforded by the debris of trees---"large stems, with their roots fast in the soil"--found in places where no vegetation, save lichens, grows at present; and that the elephants led on these tress may be conjectured partly from their long recurved tusks, which would be peculiarly useful in pulling down branches, partly from the analogy of the rhinoceros---for the contents of a mammoth's stomach have not as yet been observed. in 1878, however, the cavities of the teeth of a rhinoceros yielded fragments of the leaves of coniferous and other trees."

Source:
Anonymous review of H.H.Howorth, "The Mammoth and The Flood," Saturday Review, 65:52-53, January 14, 1888

 

[metis]

The ivory brought thence, says the traveller Wrangell, "is often as fresh and white as that from Africa."

When encased in ice, that's not at all unusual.

Matter of fact, when one of the Siberian mammoths was brought to the Royal Academy in London for a surprise display, and the people attending were eating "beef", it was disclosed to them at the end of the meal that they actually were eating mammoth.

Evolution is and has been happening as even common sense should tell one: all material things appear to change over time and genes are material things. The myth* of the Flood narrative seemingly is a reworking of the Babylonian narrative that was altered to reflect traditional Jewish beliefs and morals.


*In this context, "myth" does not mean nor imply falsehood but posits a narrative that's main purpose is to teach folkways and/or mores.