Evil among us

[Thief]

what evil twist?

maybe you noticed......
all that were called.....come now....the feast is at hand

the good and the bad

and the one that was bound hand and foot......his offense?
only that he was not properly attired

and who else among them had time to fetch a better garment?

and I noticed.....all that knew the Master made excuses not to show....
maybe they knew Him.....all too well

 

[Thief]

if father is the sun, then jesus is the moon, and mankind is the earth. that's what i think.

better to quote the Carpenter
and of Himself He did say.....brother and fellow servant

I hope to do as well

it's easier than approaching the moon

 

[syo]

all that knew the Master made excuses not to show....
maybe they knew Him.....all too well

i hope that's not the case. i try to be optimistic that the father is good. if the trinity god is not exactly good then there is no hope for humanity. i try to believe that god is good and he wants the best for us.

 

[Thief]

i hope that's not the case. i try to be optimistic that the father is good. if the trinity god is not exactly good then there is no hope for humanity. i try to believe that god is good and he wants the best for us.

here we agree......brother and fellow servant

 

[Jeremiah Ames]

when I read Genesis....I say.....
no one in the garden lied

but most people seem to think a great harm was dealt

was God being evil?
or was He returning evil for an evil done?
and what of the serpent?....he didn't really lie
when Eve tempted Adam with the forbidden fruit.....was that a bad thing?

I say....no evil happened
the acquisition of knowledge was the game plan

the serpent may have thought he was interfering
and the effort made might upset the scheme

but it didn't

I don’t subscribe to the literal garden story, but I do not see any evil in the story.

I relate it to being like a child in a family setting. The child is effectively in ‘paradise’. All his needs are met. The parent may say don’t touch the hot oven, it is not good for you.
But the child, because of his free will, really needs to find out on his own.
Adam, is the child at birth. Cannot do evil.
Eve represents his free will, which came later, but very early in life. Free will means he may choose to disobey his parents.
Free will demands that we do things our way. Represented by eating the forbidden fruit. In doing so, he now has the ability to do evil. Like putting the cat in the hot oven.
In order not to do evil he must discover what is good.

 

[Thief]

I don’t subscribe to the literal garden story, but I do not see any evil in the story.

I relate it to being like a child in a family setting. The child is effectively in ‘paradise’. All his needs are met. The parent may say don’t touch the hot oven, it is not good for you.
But the child, because of his free will, really needs to find out on his own.
Adam, is the child at birth. Cannot do evil.
Eve represents his free will, which came later, but very early in life. Free will means he may choose to disobey his parents.
Free will demands that we do things our way. Represented by eating the forbidden fruit. In doing so, he now has the ability to do evil. Like putting the cat in the hot oven.
In order not to do evil he must discover what is good.

not bad...but I look at the event as manipulation

Man was a species on Day Six.....male and female
go forth, be fruitful and multiply.....dominate all things

no names....no garden....no law.....

and God rested.....Day Seven
THEN chapter Two
and Adam is a chosen son of God
not the first to walk the earth
but the first to walk with God
Eve is a clone.....drawn from the flesh of Adam.....not born of woman
no navel

Adam was given his twin sister for a bride

the forbidden fruit was an experiment to be sure.....freewill
AND curiosity sufficient
the will to know.....even if death could be the consquence

Man has been THAT creature ever since
and we need to be that kind of spirit
for death is pending
and we are here to learn all that we can before we die

 

[Jeremiah Ames]

and that does put Him on the same side of the fence.....with us

The man was looking at the human Jesus when he said that. The people around Jesus at the time could not see God in the man. Jesus said only the father is good. This is true. Jesus the human could only do good because of the father inside Him. (That is the same for us). And He did no evil (sin), because he was one with the father. His humanity had not yet become divine at this point. He wanted the people to know that the father is the source of truth and goodness. Nothing has changed, except the fact that the Jesus no longer has his human nature.

 

[Thief]

The man was looking at the human Jesus when he said that. The people around Jesus at the time could not see God in the man. Jesus said only the father is good. This is true. Jesus the human could only do good because of the father inside Him. (That is the same for us). And He did no evil (sin), because he was one with the father. His humanity had not yet become divine at this point. He wanted the people to know that the father is the source of truth and goodness. Nothing has changed, except the fact that the Jesus no longer has his human nature.

a common definition for evil.......doing harm

clearing the Temple must have been brutal

and His Father......flooded the earth
and brought down Sodom and Gomorrah
and plagues upon Egypt

what if doing harm is the only recourse?
it would seem an evil thing to those upon whom it is dealt

 

[Quintessence]

Pardon, but where's the interfaith in this discussion? Are you wanting perspectives from other traditions on this topic or are you just wanting to promote your own?

 

[Jeremiah Ames]

a common definition for evil.......doing harm

clearing the Temple must have been brutal

and His Father......flooded the earth
and brought down Sodom and Gomorrah
and plagues upon Egypt

what if doing harm is the only recourse?
it would seem an evil thing to those upon whom it is dealt

Doing harm is evil.
Why is that? Because God’s truth says to love all others as we love ourselves.
God cannot do evil, since He is perfect goodness and perfect truth.

 

[Thief]

Pardon, but where's the interfaith in this discussion? Are you wanting perspectives from other traditions on this topic or are you just wanting to promote your own?

as soon as another faith jumps in.....fine

 

[Jeremiah Ames]

Pardon, but where's the interfaith in this discussion? Are you wanting perspectives from other traditions on this topic or are you just wanting to promote your own?

The concepts are universal. I have no religion.
Please share your thoughts.

 

[Jeremiah Ames]

a common definition for evil.......doing harm

clearing the Temple must have been brutal

and His Father......flooded the earth
and brought down Sodom and Gomorrah
and plagues upon Egypt

what if doing harm is the only recourse?
it would seem an evil thing to those upon whom it is dealt

My take.

Tipping over some money changers tables. Protecting the poor who were being cheated, exposing the evil of the church at that time. No harm there.

Flood, Sodom, Egypt. Stories with a spiritual meaning. No harm.
Read Ezekiel 16 for some insight into Sodom. And remember Jerusalem represents God’s own people.

Thanks for all the interesting comments.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

The concepts are universal

Hardly.

 

[ThePainefulTruth]

How can anyone know what is evil?

We are all inherently capable of understanding good and evil. The Bible indicates that in Genesis allegory about eating from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil and becoming fully self-aware whereby we know what we do to another by imagining being in their shoes, so to speak.

Evil is not abiding by the Golden Rule which is honoring the EQUAL rights of ALL others to their life, liberty, property and self-defense, to be free from violation through force or fraud. The root of all evil is violation of those universal equal rights via a moral/legal double standard. That's all we need to know. It's that simple and easily deducible.

 

[Quintessence]

The concepts are universal. I have no religion.
Please share your thoughts.

They are?

Which concepts? I don't think much of what you wrote about in the OP is at all universal.

 

[QuestioningMind]

How can anyone know what is evil?


Only by knowledge of what is good. One cannot recognize evil unless one knows goodness.


One can only know good if one knows the truth. The truth can only come from God. Anyone, anywhere can know God. Religion can not give you God. That is a matter for the individual.


Therefore, any individual who does evil or abets evil (such as through voting a person of evil into power) does not know God. They may think they do, but their God would obviously not be the God who created all things, since He is perfect goodness and truth.


As a continuation, I will say that for a person who is involved in evil to have his evil set aside, that particular evil must come into the light. This does not mean acting on the evil, but recognizing it. That recognition must come from the person involved.

One can only know good if one knows the truth. The truth can only come from Tim. Anyone, anywhere can know Tim. Religion can not give you Tim. That is a matter for the individual.

My claim has just as much evidence to back it up as yours, which makes both of them meaningless.

 

[beenherebeforeagain]

Don’t confuse a present reality with truth. And the truth of which I speak is divine truth.
Lights come and go.
The brightest light in the room does not represent truth, it represents a present reality.

You and I go into a room. You say the room is quite warm.
I say it feels too cold to me. That is merely our individual realities based upon our perceptions. It has no relation to divine truth.

You say it is honorable for a person to serve in the military.
I say it is not. We have our opinions, which may or may not align with divine truth. (A hypothetical)

People often confuse their reality, or their idea of truth with divine truth. They are not the same. Our truths can change based upon many variables. As a youth I may think capital punishment is a good thing. As an adult I may find it totally wrong. Something changed in me. Divine truth never changes. Ever. If capital punishment is wrong now, it’s always been wrong. Or the opposite.

Our job is to seek divine truth, so that we may do good.

Again, given that there is no way for a human to know anything for certain, how exactly are we to recognize divine truth--when all we have to go on is our own personal experiences, and what we perceive to be what others tell us?

 

[Truthseeker]

We know good from looking at the Manifestations of God, and the commandments he brings us. We also know good from the best of the followers. Ultimately, we know this good because it is inside us. But inside us is also the lower animal nature that leads us to evil. Religion helps us to know the good part of us, the attributes of God placed inside us. Also contacting the Holy Spirit brings us closer to God and to the good attributes within us. Religion is not rites, doctrines, and rituals, though there may be some of that in the original teachings. It is a relationship with God that is the core of religion. All else leads to that.

 

[beenherebeforeagain]

Doing harm is evil.
Why is that? Because God’s truth says to love all others as we love ourselves.
God cannot do evil, since He is perfect goodness and perfect truth.

Weighing in as a non-Christian in this discussion:

Harm does not equal Evil.

I do not accept a cosmology or cosmogony that attributes existence and morals to a singular omnimax deity.

Regardless, what I have been suggesting in the other posts, since this isn't a debate forum, is that humans are in no wise able to tell what is or is not "God's truth."

We are limited, temporary beings. If you are a Christian, or of other theistic religion, you pretty much have to assume on faith that the words in a book written long ago is indeed God's Truth, and not just some other human telling you something is God's Truth, and you believing it on faith.