Evolution and Creationism are the same thing

[tumbleweed41]

What is your understanding of an established Scientific Theory?

I would say there are manyareas of Creationism that are Scientific, and I would say there is ZERO scientific evidence for Evolution.

No, really. It is not a hard question.
What is your understanding of what an established Scientific Theory is?

Let's start with Biological Evolution.
What do you feel it really means?

To my understanding there are 6 basic stages or level of Evolution
1. Cosmic Evolution: the origin of time, space, and matter
2. Chemical Evolution: The origin of higher elements from hydrogen
3. Stellar and Planetary Evolution: The origin of stars and planets
4. Organic Evolution: The origin of life
5. Macro-Evolution: change from one kind into another
6. Micro- Evolution: Variations within the kinds

Again, you missed the question altogether.
What is your understanding of Biological Evolution?

 

[Jesusfreak888]

Again, you missed the question altogether.
What is your understanding of Biological Evolution?[/quote]

??? I’m pretty sure I just told you my understanding of “Evolution”. Biological Evolution would fall into the categories of:
· Organic Evolution
· Macro-Evolution
· Micro-Evolution
Of these three categories, the first two (Organic and Macro-Evolution) cannot be proven

 

[Father Heathen]

Poe? Poe.

 

[McBell]

Haha oh how small minded you people are.
I know less than your 10 year old daughter… that’s the best you can do? Personal attacks do not bother me in the least, because this shows me that you obviously have nothing useful to contribute. If I am so wrong then why not straighten me out? Tell me where I am wrong, or maybe you can’t…

Merely presenting facts.
You should try it...

This is a statement that I often use when talking to people who claim not to believe in God, because it is an attempt to get you to think independently.

Again, who are you trying to convince?
I do not believe in god because I have not seen or heard any evidence that convinces that there is a god.

There is a possibility that I am wrong, and that is where my faith comes in, but something you people rarely think about is there is a possibility you are also wrong.

You have no idea what I think.
However, you go right ahead with your strawmen.

What will you do if you are wrong? Have you ever thought about that? What if tomorrow morning you wake up, you hear a trumpet blast, and you are face to face with Jesus? I do not expect you to give this much thought, because I’m sure it is terrifying for you to think about.

I do not give it much thought because I have already been there and done that.

No I am claiming there is ABSOLUTLY NO proof for Evolution Period. If you have some... tell me...

http://www.religiousforums.com/foru...109893-evolution-ask-your-questions-here.html

http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/evolution-vs-creationism/101633-evolution-evidence-redux.html

http://www.religiousforums.com/foru...6685-theory-evolution-supported-evidence.html

As I stated before my beliefs have not always been set in stone. I spent years researching many religions including Evolution, and I have yet to find any serious problems with Christianity.

Good for you.
I sincerely hope it works for you.

Myself, I have found several problems with Christianity.

No, I’m pretty certain in what I believe,

Didn't sound like it to me.
Sounded more like you were trying to convince yourself of the 'truth' of your own words.

it is you who obviously lives in fear everyday,

You base this load of bull **** on what, exactly?

and the only way you can convince yourself that you are right is to get on this website everyday and try and attack people without trying to defend your personal beliefs.

*yawn*
Wake me up when the sermon is over.

 

[McBell]

No, I’m pretty certain in what I believe, it is you who obviously lives in fear everyday, and the only way you can convince yourself that you are right is to get on this website everyday and try and attack people without trying to defend your personal beliefs.

Again, you missed the question altogether.
What is your understanding of Biological Evolution?

??? I’m pretty sure I just told you my understanding of “Evolution”. Biological Evolution would fall into the categories of:
· Organic Evolution
· Macro-Evolution
· Micro-Evolution
Of these three categories, the first two (Organic and Macro-Evolution) cannot be proven

It would help if you were to learn how to use the Quote feature:

http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/you-new-religiousforums-com/100086-how-use-quote-feature.html

​

 

[Riverwolf]

??? I’m pretty sure I just told you my understanding of “Evolution”. Biological Evolution would fall into the categories of:
· Organic Evolution
· Macro-Evolution
· Micro-Evolution
Of these three categories, the first two (Organic and Macro-Evolution) cannot be proven

We look different from our parents. That's short-term biological evolution at work. Terms like micro/macro evolution are no longer used since, as far as I understand, they're essentially the same thing.

 

[Riverwolf]

4. Organic Evolution: The origin of life

False. The science on the origin of life is called abiogenesis, and is not at all the same thing as biological evolution.

 

[Gunfingers]

Poe? Poe.

This matches extremely well with your avatar.

 

[Jesusfreak888]

Merely presenting facts.
You should try it...

So it’s a fact that your 10 year old daughter knows more about Evolution than I do? You have absolutely no idea who I am, and this is a prime example of how Atheists define facts… you label something as a fact to better fit whatever you are talking about, a fact is something that in indisputable, and I don’t think anything you have said is indisputable… you might try a different choice of words next time…

Again, who are you trying to convince?
I do not believe in god because I have not seen or heard any evidence that convinces that there is a god.

It is not only within my ability, but it is my responsibility to talk to people about God. Do you think I get on here because this is the only thing I have to do? I am talking about this because I honestly think the majority of people have the wrong perception on God. I would guess that 99.9% of all Atheists honest know there is a God, but due to pride or mainly some tragic personal experience they have had, they refuse to believe in him. If you do not want to discuss this any further, just say the word and our conversation will end. I honestly just want to see why you don’t believe, and maybe it’s something you are misunderstanding that I can help with. This is a pretty important topic, because I don’t care how long you’re alive, you are going to be dead a lot longer than that. You better be sure you are right.

 

[Jesusfreak888]

We look different from our parents. That's short-term biological evolution at work. Terms like micro/macro evolution are no longer used since, as far as I understand, they're essentially the same thing.

That is exactly my point; “Short Term” is the only type of evolution that can be scientific. Just because you see a big dog cross bread and make a new species does not prove everything evolved from a rock 4.6 Billion years ago…
Macro-Evolution is when something changes to a different KIND
Micro- Evolution is variations within the kinds.

I use these terms because they are the most commonly accepted terms, but if you have a different name for them that is fine, but my point is simple: Not one has ever seen an animal or anything produce something other than its kind. If you breed two dogs, you might get a big dog or a little dog, they might have curly hair or straight hair, but I guarantee you it will be a dog. You will never breed two dogs and get a fish, or a human, or anything else. If you want to believe that, have fun, but that is not science.

 

[Riverwolf]

I would guess that 99.9% of all Atheists honest know there is a God, but due to pride or mainly some tragic personal experience they have had, they refuse to believe in him.

Well, you'd be dead wrong. This probably describes a very small percentage of atheists. Speaking as a theist, atheism is a perfectly logical and reasonable stance. After all, in logic, when determining whether or not something is true, the default position is to assume it's false until it can be demonstrated to be true. This is to help eliminate bias. I have to suspend logic in order to make the leap of faith that is belief in God.

 

[Riverwolf]

That is exactly my point; “Short Term” is the only type of evolution that can be scientific. Just because you see a big dog cross bread and make a new species does not prove everything evolved from a rock 4.6 Billion years ago…

That is an absurd concept, which is why NO ONE believes it.

Macro-Evolution is when something changes to a different KIND

Micro- Evolution is variations within the kinds.

I use these terms because they are the most commonly accepted terms,

No, they're not.

Not one has ever seen an animal or anything produce something other than its kind. If you breed two dogs, you might get a big dog or a little dog, they might have curly hair or straight hair, but I guarantee you it will be a dog. You will never breed two dogs and get a fish, or a human, or anything else. If you want to believe that, have fun, but that is not science.

No, it's not, which is why no one believes it.

 

[Jesusfreak888]

Well, you'd be dead wrong. This probably describes a very small percentage of atheists. Speaking as a theist, atheism is a perfectly logical and reasonable stance. After all, in logic, when determining whether or not something is true, the default position is to assume it's false until it can be demonstrated to be true. This is to help eliminate bias. I have to suspend logic in order to make the leap of faith that is belief in God.
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That is the outlook that many people have on life. Many of my friends have made the decision they will not believe The Bible until it has been proven right, I have made the decision I will believe it until someone can prove it wrong. The Bible has withstood thousands of years of abuse, and still God’s Word is preserved. If that is your logic then you would need to suspend logic to take the “leap of faith” and believe in Evolution as well as Atheism. You must BELIEVE God does not exist, and with overwhelming evidence for a Creator, I would say the logical choice would be Christianity.

 

[Jesusfreak888]

That is an absurd concept, which is why NO ONE believes it.



No, they're not.



No, it's not, which is why no one believes it.

I am confused… This is what the Evolution Theory teaches, you can go grab any public high school biology book, and it will lay it out for you the same way… You are right, it is absurd, but that’s the theory of Evolution.

 

[Riverwolf]

That is the outlook that many people have on life. Many of my friends have made the decision they will not believe The Bible until it has been proven right, I have made the decision I will believe it until someone can prove it wrong.

That's fine. Just understand that logic doesn't operate that way.

The Bible has withstood thousands of years of abuse, and still God’s Word is preserved. If that is your logic then you would need to suspend logic to take the “leap of faith” and believe in Evolution as well as Atheism. You must BELIEVE God does not exist, and with overwhelming evidence for a Creator, I would say the logical choice would be Christianity.

Except other texts have survived longer than the Bible. The Rig Veda is the oldest surviving religious text still in use(its earliest hymns dating at least 4000 years ago by scholars, and even older according to many Hindus, up to 6000 years ago), and has withstood far more than the Bible, yet its wisdom still shines through even today, even if you don't believe it's God's word.

There's plenty of evidence for biological evolution. What I think is happening is that you do not understand it.

I am confused… This is what the Evolution Theory teaches, you can go grab any public high school biology book, and it will lay it out for you the same way… You are right, it is absurd, but that’s the theory of Evolution.

No, it's not. I didn't understand evolution all that well until well after High School, and I attribute this to a likelihood that the textbooks weren't written very well(which seems like almost a requirement for such books), and that the teachers didn't clear up any of the misconceptions. Look away from the text books, and take a look at the links provided here: http://www.religiousforums.com/foru...eference-faqs-tutorials-theory-evolution.html

Or if you want something more brief, here's a video explaining some of the common misconceptions:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vss1VKN2rf8&feature=channel_video_title

 

[averageJOE]

Ugh, why even bother.

Your problem is is that you don't want to debate anything. You just want everybody to agree with you.

 

[camanintx]

If that is your logic then you would need to suspend logic to take the “leap of faith” and believe in Evolution as well as Atheism. You must BELIEVE God does not exist, and with overwhelming evidence for a Creator, I would say the logical choice would be Christianity.

Since the vast majority of people who believe in the Theory of Evolution also believe in the existence of God, your attempt at logic is not going so well. Seems to me the problem is not reconciling evolution with God but with your specific idea of God.

 

[camanintx]

I am confused… This is what the Evolution Theory teaches, you can go grab any public high school biology book, and it will lay it out for you the same way… You are right, it is absurd, but that’s the theory of Evolution.

Have you taken High School Biology and what textbook did you use?

 

[tumbleweed41]

No, really. It is not a hard question.
What is your understanding of what an established Scientific Theory is?





Again, you missed the question altogether.
What is your understanding of Biological Evolution?

??? I’m pretty sure I just told you my understanding of “Evolution”. Biological Evolution would fall into the categories of:
· Organic Evolution
· Macro-Evolution
· Micro-Evolution
Of these three categories, the first two (Organic and Macro-Evolution) cannot be proven

So, you have no idea what an established Scientific Theory is, and your understanding of Biological Evolution is less than the average Middle School biology student.

Why am I not surprised.

 

[Jesusfreak888]

That's fine. Just understand that logic doesn't operate that way.

That might be how your logic works, but that is not the way everyone must logic their way through life. If that is the way you wish to live your life, good luck assuming everything you hear is wrong until you prove it right. I understand there are certain areas where this type of logic could be applied, but when discussing Religion that type of logic is very dangerous, and another excuse for someone to not believe in God.

Except other texts have survived longer than the Bible. The Rig Veda is the oldest surviving religious text still in use(its earliest hymns dating at least 4000 years ago by scholars, and even older according to many Hindus, up to 6000 years ago), and has withstood far more than the Bible, yet its wisdom still shines through even today, even if you don't believe it's God's word.

I am not talking about the oldest surviving book; I am talking about the word of God. The Rig Veda is a very old religious text, but just because they wrote their religion down, and the book survived does not make that religion right. My point in my last post was the Theory of Creation (in The Bible) has stood the test of time, and still cannot be proven wrong.

There's plenty of evidence for biological evolution. What I think is happening is that you do not understand it.



No, it's not. I didn't understand evolution all that well until well after High School, and I attribute this to a likelihood that the textbooks weren't written very well(which seems like almost a requirement for such books), and that the teachers didn't clear up any of the misconceptions. Look away from the text books, and take a look at the links provided here

Or if you want something more brief, here's a video explaining some of the common misconceptions:

In the YouTube video the Theory of Evolution is defined as: “How different living organisms have developed and diversified since life appeared on earth”
That is exactly what Micro-Evolution is, and I understand I very well. THIS IS SCIENCE!!!
The words that I have underlined are the part I would like you to explain. I don’t care what religion you are Christian, Hindu, Evolution, or Atheist, there was a beginning to life on this earth, and to the earth itself. Please explain to me how life “appeared” on earth?