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Evolution and Theory of Evolution

McBell

McBell

Unbound
Atruthseeker said:
So what you are saying is that Evolution is a closed book not open to critisism or questioning. Cos, it's funny, even Dawkins himself said no one know how life got started, and that includes you, so really, you can not claim a monopoly on how life started. Sorry. :D
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*yawn*
I wonder why creationists cannot get it through their thick skulls that evolution has nothing to do with abiogenesis?

Chock up another thread lost to deliberate creationist ignorance.
 
Jose Fly

Jose Fly

Fisker of men
Atruthseeker said:
Why thank you! Just proving my point. Cos this is the sort of response that those who want to bring ID or creationism to the table often get from those who belive in evolution. Not much fun when the shoe is on the other foot, when from the outset our argument is made fun of. If you don't believe that happens, just look at the previous posts in this thread.
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In its early stages, ID creationism was indeed given its "seat at the table" and due consideration. For example, quite a few scientists read Behe's Darwin's Black Box, and responded with thorough, detailed critique and rebuttal. The problem was, Behe's responses to those rebuttals were anything but compelling (and at times, were laughably pathetic).

Compound that with the fact that despite these critiques, the ID creationists at the Discovery Institute went ahead and attempted to push the material for inclusion into public schools anyways, and it was pretty clear that ID was nothing more than the creationist response to court rulings banning the teaching of creationism in public schools. And of course, the leak of the Wedge Strategy sealed the deal.

Since those early days, ID creationists have done nothing to indicate to the scientific community that they're at all interested in providing a valid scientific basis for their claims. Their activities and spending habits all point to the obvious fact that ID is nothing more than a watered down version of Biblical creationism, crafted to subvert federal court rulings.

So please, don't insult our intelligence by claiming that the scientific community is "out to get the IDists" and deny them a seat at the table purely because of ideology.
 
Valjean

Valjean

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Atruthseeker said:
Is it? I believe that we can evolve, in that there can be changes within a species, but not that we can change into an entirely different and new species.
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And how would a species know when to stop changing, so as to avoid transforming into a seperate species?
 
A

Atruthseeker

Active Member
Seyorni said:
And how would a species know when to stop changing, so as to avoid transforming into a seperate species?
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I DON'T KNOW! It just doesn't. Just as you can't mix a horse with a donkey. You get a mule but they can't reproduce! WHY!? WHY?!WAAAAAAAAHHHHAAAAAA!!!! How did the eyelid evolve? If it didn't evolve at the same time as the eye, wouldn't the eye dry out?
 
A

Atruthseeker

Active Member
Mestemia said:
*yawn*
I wonder why creationists cannot get it through their thick skulls that evolution has nothing to do with abiogenesis?

Chock up another thread lost to deliberate creationist ignorance.
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So, you are saying you have no problem with the idea that an intelligent designer got the ball rolling? You only want to discuss how life evolved? If so, tell me, before life 'evolved' to what it is now, HOW DID IT START? Let's talk abiogenins! Surely that is the at the root of the theory. YOU DO NOT KNOW! So how can you say that intelligent design has nothing to do with it? HOW!?
 
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Jose Fly

Jose Fly

Fisker of men
Atruthseeker said:
Are you saying we should take yours!? THAT IS EXACTLY WHAT YOU SAY TO CREATIONISTS!!!!!!!!!:facepalm:
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Of course I don't. But let's get back to the question you were asked (How would a species know when to stop changing). Your answer was "I don't know. It just doesn't".

So if you don't know how a population says "Whoa, we'd better stop evolving. A little more and we'll be a different species than our ancestors from 10,000 years ago, and we can't have that!", how exactly do you know that they do?
 
A

Atruthseeker

Active Member
Jose Fly said:
Of course I don't. But let's get back to the question you were asked (How would a species know when to stop changing). Your answer was "I don't know. It just doesn't".

So if you don't know how a population says "Whoa, we'd better stop evolving. A little more and we'll be a different species than our ancestors from 10,000 years ago, and we can't have that!", how exactly do you know that they do?
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How does something know it needs something it has never had before? How does something say to itself: 'You know, I can't fly right now, but I tell you what, it wouldn't half come in handy if I did, so I will set off in a gradual path to what will enable me to fly. I know it'll be hit and miss along the way, and chances are I'll fail to get to where I'd like to get, but if this is something that will benefit me, then eventually, given enough time and the right conditions etc, I will get there!'

That is a just a stupid illustration, I know, but really, all the complexities in life would require such huge steps, it's virtually impossible to have happened by random mutation. Tell me, how did life evolve from non-life to life and we'll talk.
 
Jose Fly

Jose Fly

Fisker of men
Atruthseeker said:
How does something know it needs something it has never had before? How does something say to itself: 'You know, I can't fly right now, but I tell you what, it wouldn't half come in handy if I did, so I will set off in a gradual path to what will enable me to fly. I know it'll be hit and miss along the way, and chances are I'll fail to get to where I'd like to get, but if this is something that will benefit me, then eventually, given enough time and the right conditions etc, I will get there!'

That is a just a stupid illustration, I know, but really, all the complexities in life would require such huge steps, it's virtually impossible to have happened by random mutation. Tell me, how did life evolve from non-life to life and we'll talk.
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You didn't answer the question. How do you know populations know to stop changing once they're on the verge of becoming a different species than their ancestors?
 
Gabethewiking

Gabethewiking

Active Member
Atruthseeker said:
Why thank you! Just proving my point. Cos this is the sort of response that those who want to bring ID or creationism to the table often get from those who belive in evolution. Not much fun when the shoe is on the other foot, when from the outset our argument is made fun of. If you don't believe that happens, just look at the previous posts in this thread.
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Abiogenesis is not part of Evolution. Evolution is Biology, abiogenesis is Chemistry. But I got the feeling you where just having a laugh or wasting time not serious, right?

Seyorni said:
I get the impression he, like myself, suspects many opponents of evolution/ToE are mixing up these very different terms and making intelligent discussion of the subject difficult.
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This is precisely why, Yes.
I want to make it clear from the start and perhaps be able to help them understanding Evolution and the Theory of Evolution better (at all).



To all:
Now, it is a very simple Question, Could you explain what you think Evolution and the Theory of Evolution is, if you consider it the same thing do not hesitate to tell me/us, if you want to learn about it, inform me/us and we/me will.

And could we end this once and for all: No one is "after" Intelligent Design/Creationist, They (ID/Creationist) are on the other hand trying to act like they are "persecuted", this is known as persecution complex and usually is based on lack of foundation, for all American Creationist Reading, UNITED STATES IS A OVERWHELMINGLY CHRISTIAN, and on the other hand NONE-CHRISTIAN ARE PERSECUTED FOR REAL IN OUR GREAT NATION. The only thing is, a large percentage accept facts like Evolution, Human History and Germ Theory so the Creationist/ID movement feel outside. But please, end any claims like that now and keep to the Topics.
 
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Gabethewiking

Gabethewiking

Active Member
Atruthseeker said:
How does something know it needs something it has never had before? How does something say to itself: 'You know, I can't fly right now, but I tell you what, it wouldn't half come in handy if I did, so I will set off in a gradual path to what will enable me to fly. I know it'll be hit and miss along the way, and chances are I'll fail to get to where I'd like to get, but if this is something that will benefit me, then eventually, given enough time and the right conditions etc, I will get there!'

That is a just a stupid illustration, I know, but really, all the complexities in life would require such huge steps, it's virtually impossible to have happened by random mutation. Tell me, how did life evolve from non-life to life and we'll talk.
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Truthseeker, give me a chance and listen to me here. I read all your posts and the only problem you have is the fact that you do not understand Evolution and have no idea of its function.

That is it Truth,
So if you would want to actually understand and learn the Theory of Evolution and Evolution, you got the chance here, FREE SCHOOLING, unlimited questions you could ask, you could actually learn from alot of different people that can refer you to reviews, more knowledgeable people (if they can not explain) and Everything inbetween...

Are you willing to learn what Evolution actually is? That is the Question Truth. Tell us.
 
camanintx

camanintx

Well-Known Member
Atruthseeker said:
Are you saying we should take yours!? THAT IS EXACTLY WHAT YOU SAY TO CREATIONISTS!!!!!!!!!:facepalm:
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You don't have to take anyone word for it, all of the evidence is readily available should you choose to look at it. The fact that you choose to ignore it is not our problem.
 
camanintx

camanintx

Well-Known Member
Atruthseeker said:
How does something know it needs something it has never had before? How does something say to itself: 'You know, I can't fly right now, but I tell you what, it wouldn't half come in handy if I did, so I will set off in a gradual path to what will enable me to fly. I know it'll be hit and miss along the way, and chances are I'll fail to get to where I'd like to get, but if this is something that will benefit me, then eventually, given enough time and the right conditions etc, I will get there!'

That is a just a stupid illustration, I know, but really, all the complexities in life would require such huge steps, it's virtually impossible to have happened by random mutation. Tell me, how did life evolve from non-life to life and we'll talk.
Click to expand...
Does water need to know the topography of an area to find it's way to the ocean?
 
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