• Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

Evolution and Theory of Evolution

Monk Of Reason

༼ つ ◕_◕ ༽つ
....intelligent design is generally silent on the question about a designer. It is same like if we considered how Bach created his music, without talking about what emotions Bach had in his heart by which he created the music. We are merely describing the technical details how it was chosen, without letting any opinion into it, that is intelligent design theory broadly.

While with creationism opinions are discussed as well, besides the facts of how things are chosen.
The problem is that creationism doesn't describe the details in any sort of accurate way and requires great leaps in logic with no evidence to support many of its assertions. Then they run into the problem of having mountain ranges of evidence against them.
 

Mohammad Nur Syamsu

Well-Known Member
The problem is that creationism doesn't describe the details in any sort of accurate way and requires great leaps in logic with no evidence to support many of its assertions. Then they run into the problem of having mountain ranges of evidence against them.

You are merely denying freedom is real, and nobody really agrees with that.
 

Mohammad Nur Syamsu

Well-Known Member
I don't think I'm even going to respond to you until you start posting things with any kind of meaning.

As creationism merely means to describe how things are chosen in the universe, the rejection of it is a rejection of freedom in general. And we have talked before, you simply reject freedom is real. That is your honest position.
 

ImmortalFlame

Woke gremlin
As creationism merely means to describe how things are chosen in the universe, the rejection of it is a rejection of freedom in general.
That makes absolutely no sense. Creationism is a position whereby you believe that a supernatural, intelligent agency designed life as it is (or, at the very least, roughly as it is), and is a religious movement started as opposition to the idea of common ancestry that attempts to pass itself off as a science. Your definition, and your extrapolation from that definition, are patently absurd.
 

Monk Of Reason

༼ つ ◕_◕ ༽つ
As creationism merely means to describe how things are chosen in the universe, the rejection of it is a rejection of freedom in general. And we have talked before, you simply reject freedom is real. That is your honest position.
Being a creationist means that you take your own opinion based upon religious tales of how ancient people used their imaginations to think up ludacris ways of how the world works. But then your personal position is to reject any sort of rational argument and make baseless claims again without supporting them or even clearly stating them. But apparently I reject freedom no matter how many times myself and others have pointed out how incorrect that is.
 

shawn001

Well-Known Member
Religious Doctrine in the Science Classroom;
Putting Education & Religious Freedom at Risk
pix_black.gif

First Amendment & Religious Explanations of Creation

The Establishment Clause of the First Amendment prohibits the government from endorsing any particular religious belief. This prohibition ensures that our public schools remain places in which students of all faiths – or those who do not ascribe to religious beliefs – may learn in an atmosphere free from divisive theological debates and sectarianism.

In disapproving organized prayer in the public schools in 1962, for example, the U.S. Supreme Court said that "[w]hen the power, prestige and financial support of government is placed behind a particular religious belief, the indirect coercive pressure upon religious minorities to conform to the prevailing officially approved religion is plain."

Our public schools must be true to the First Amendment's mandate against religious divisiveness and remain free from the influence of religious dogma in order for students of all faiths to attend school without fear of coercion.

But proponents of teaching religious explanations for creation in public schools share a distinctly religious view of the world's origin and believe that the public schools should present that view even to the exclusion of science. However, this approach would plainly violate the First Amendment's prohibition against state action designed to advance a religious belief.

In 1968, in Epperson v. Arkansas, 393 U.S. 97, the Supreme Court held unambiguously that it is unconstitutional to restrict a public school teacher's right to teach evolution. More recently, in Aguillard v. Edwards, 482 U.S. 595 (1987), the Court decisively held that it is unconstitutional to require educators who teach evolution also to teach creationism. Courts have yet to address a similar requirement to teach intelligent design. But based on Aguillard and other Supreme Court rulings, courts should also find such a requirement unconstitutional.

First Amendment and Creationism


"
General Rule: Evolution must only be taught as scientific fact. Creationism may not be taught as science under any circumstances.

May a public school science teacher's right to teach evolution be restricted?
No. The United States Supreme Court has determined that it is unconstitutional to restrict an educator's right to teach evolution. 35

May a science teacher who teaches evolution also teach creationism? No. Educators may not teach, as fact, the theory that humankind was created by a divine being. In science classes, educators must present only scientific explanations for life on earth and scientific critiques of evolution. Furthermore, schools may not refuse to teach evolution in an effort to avoid offending religious individuals. The United States Supreme Court has held that it is unconstitutional to require educators who teach evolution also to teach creationism. 36

In addition, disclaimers regarding the theory of evolution as the only explanation for the development of humankind have been found to be unconstitutional. In Freiler v. Tangipahoa Parish Board of Education, 185 F. 3d 337 (5th Cir 1999), cert. denied, 530 U. S. 1251 (2000), the court struck down a school board rule requiring teachers to read a disclaimer that said that the teaching of evolution is "not intended to influence or dissuade the Biblical version of Creation or any other concept."

May creationism ever be discussed in the public schools? Yes. Creationism may be included in classes on comparative religion as an example of how some religious groups believe human life began. However, creationism may never be taught as scientific fact.

Do scientific integrity and equity require that we teach a competing theory of human origins? Some have argued that equity, intellectual honesty and scientific integrity require the teaching of creationism as a differing and alternative point of view. However, creationism may not be taught as a response to the theory of evolution. Indeed, creationism (or "creation science") does not meet the tenets of science as scientists use the term. 37 Moreover, it is not a matter of equity to teach a religious point of view in a public school classroom with taxpayer dollars.

Additionally, there is a growing movement promoting the teaching of "intelligent design theory" which asserts that the only reasonable explanation for the very complexity of the world and development of humans is the existence of God. This "theory," often couched in scientific terminology, is just another species of creationism, and thus also must not be taught in the classroom as scientific fact.

Sample Scenario:


  • Parent Asks Biology Teacher to Stop Teaching Evolution or Include Creationism
    Mrs. Anderson teaches a seventh grade biology class which includes a section on Darwinism and evolution. Jenny Hunter is a student in Mrs. Anderson's class. Jenny's mother was helping Jenny with her homework one night when she realized that Jenny was studying evolution, which goes against the family's belief in divine creation. Jenny's mother asked Mrs. Anderson to either stop teaching evolution or to also include a section on creationism, creation-science or intelligent design in her biology class.

    How should Mrs. Anderson respond?
    Mrs. Anderson should continue to teach evolution and should not teach any theory that humankind was created by a divine being. While Jenny should be expected to learn and understand the theory of evolution, she should not feel compelled to agree with the theory. Mrs. Anderson should make sure Jenny is not ridiculed because she believes in divine creation.

Religion in the Public Schools - Evolution vs. Creationism

So they then deceptively came up with ID to replace Creationism. IN fact they lied because it was relabeling creationism and got caught doing it.

Intelligent Design on Trial
Science is "Exhibit A" in a landmark trial on the teaching of evolution.

"Defendants' experts will show this Court that intelligent design theory is science, it is not religion. This expert testimony will also demonstrate that making students aware of gaps and problems in evolutionary theory is good science education. It's good liberal education."

"KENNETH R. MILLER: Not a single observation, not a single experimental result, has ever emerged in 150 years that contradicts the general outlines of the theory of evolution. Any theory that can stand up to 150 years of contentious testing is a pretty darn good theory, and that's what evolution is."

"
NARRATOR: Barbara Forrest's testimony would make a strong case that the Dover school board was thrusting religion into the classroom. And in comparing the Of Pandas and People drafts, Forrest discovered that the authors had apparently made their revisions in haste.

BARBARA FORREST:
In cleansing this manuscript, they failed to replace every word properly. I found the word "creationists." And instead of replacing the entire word, they just kind of did this, and got "design proponents" with the "c" in front and the "ists" in the back from the original word.

NICK MATZKE:
So the correct term for this transitional form is "Cdesign proponentsists." And everyone now refers to this as the "missing link" between creationism and intelligent design. You've got the direct physical evidence there of a transitional fossil.

NARRATOR: Barbara Forrest's testimony not only traced the creationist lineage of Pandas. Citing a Christian magazine's interview, Forrest let one of the intelligent design movement's own leaders, Paul Nelson, speak for himself.

BARBARA FORREST: The question he was asked was,
"Is intelligent design just a critique of evolutionary theory or does it offer something more? Does it offer something that humankind needs to know?" This is his answer: "Easily, the biggest challenge facing the I.D. community is to develop a full-fledged theory of biological design. We don't have such a theory right now, and that's a real problem. Without a theory, it's very hard to know where to direct your research focus. Right now, we've got a bag of powerful intuitions and a handful of notions, such as irreducible complexity, but as yet, no general theory of biological design."



NOVA | Intelligent Design on Trial
 

Mohammad Nur Syamsu

Well-Known Member
Being a creationist means that you take your own opinion based upon religious tales of how ancient people used their imaginations to think up ludacris ways of how the world works. But then your personal position is to reject any sort of rational argument and make baseless claims again without supporting them or even clearly stating them. But apparently I reject freedom no matter how many times myself and others have pointed out how incorrect that is.

One who rejects all knowledge about how things are chosen in the universe, rejects all freedom. That is you.
 

Mohammad Nur Syamsu

Well-Known Member
That makes absolutely no sense. Creationism is a position whereby you believe that a supernatural, intelligent agency designed life as it is (or, at the very least, roughly as it is), and is a religious movement started as opposition to the idea of common ancestry that attempts to pass itself off as a science. Your definition, and your extrapolation from that definition, are patently absurd.

Creationism asserts that all agency is supernatural. For human beings a soul is posited doing the choosing, as distinct from the natural body. So you see creationism covers all decisions.
 

ImmortalFlame

Woke gremlin
Creationism asserts that all agency is supernatural.
False. All creationism asserts is that a creator exists and the evolutionary model which explains the diversification of species is incorrect.

For human beings a soul is posited doing the choosing, as distinct from the natural body. So you see creationism covers all decisions.
Made-up garbage. You have no idea what you're talking about.
 
Top