Cause people like it in drama format? Someone will bust out a modern myth about humans getting procreating with neanderthals. You know I think there is already a movie like that.
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Evolution as Common Creation Mythos for Humanity
- Thread starter Quintessence
- Start date
outhouse
Atheistically
+1
there is no reason at all to view evolution or the facts of evolution in that light..
We dont understand everything about gravity, but the apple falls. You dont talk about gravity in a mythical fashion either.
waiste of bandwidth
People have already been using myth to explain what we see in evolution. I once heard this version that a teacher told me in elementary school that was actually kinda racist sounding now that I think about it. It was wrong of course but the myth was designed to explain the diversity of human races. Same things mormons tried to explain using their myths. Facts should be going into our modern day myths. I say modern day myths because there is no telling how much the future will laugh at our archaic knowledge.
outhouse
Atheistically
I would say creationist view evolution as myth but that is just their ignorance showing.
myth has always been used to explain what we dont understand
Like I said, no one puts gravity in the myth catagory
It goes into style of getting points across to people. For some reason people get a better understanding when there are pictures and when they can apply the knowledge in a real world view. Similar to telling truths using parables. Not for everyone but many stories we consider truth today will be myth tomorrow.
outhouse
Atheistically
If you have noticed, what we perceive as myth today has shrunk to almost nothing compared to 2000 years ago when myth was a part of your life daily.
Its because we have become more educated
The majority of people are religious, said people still live and follow a mythical existance, but its a fraction of what it used to be.
I find this primitive and we should have learned from ancient mens mistakes, this is not anti-theism. But that doesnt mean your trheology can run wild and it needs to be kept in check .
There is never a good reason to view science in any shape or form as mythical unless you want to live your life in delusion
Well it isn't as if we know everything so as long as we keep that in mind we might be able to avoid the ramifications of delusion. Who is to say we don't find out that we didn't come from land apes but came from water apes from atlantis? Probably my sci-fi brain working overtime but there is always room for more evidence and as such the future will find that we may have been wrong about a few things depending on what future evidence brings us.
E. Nato Difficile
Active Member
Wow, you guys are really literal-minded, huh?
I'm afraid anyone who says they're conversant with every data point in the entire construct of species evolution is kidding himself. Unless you're an expert on molecular biology, embryology, genetics, paleontology, geology, biochemistry, and several other specialized disciplines, you relate to evolution as a narrative. I don't think there's anything wrong with admitting that.
I'm an atheist, and I don't think there's anything religious about the mythos of evolution. I think the concept of myth is more about meaning than about literal truth. Even if species evolution is derived from the scientific method, and therefore more likely to be accurate about the history of life on Earth, it's still a set of stories we tell ourselves about where we came from and our place in the universe.
-Nato
I'm afraid anyone who says they're conversant with every data point in the entire construct of species evolution is kidding himself. Unless you're an expert on molecular biology, embryology, genetics, paleontology, geology, biochemistry, and several other specialized disciplines, you relate to evolution as a narrative. I don't think there's anything wrong with admitting that.
I'm an atheist, and I don't think there's anything religious about the mythos of evolution. I think the concept of myth is more about meaning than about literal truth. Even if species evolution is derived from the scientific method, and therefore more likely to be accurate about the history of life on Earth, it's still a set of stories we tell ourselves about where we came from and our place in the universe.
-Nato
I've never heard a scientist or person conversant with evolution theory treating it as a creation myth. I can see where that might be possible, but usually the ToE is treated as mundane history or mechanism, in my experience.
Science doesn't prove things. It just amasses evidence. I think you're confusing it with mathematics.
Where'd you hear that?
Science doesn't prove things. It just amasses evidence. I think you're confusing it with mathematics.
Not at all. You asked me for a practical purpose for using evolution to inspire meaning/purpose in life, and I simply gave you the first practical purpose I could think of. Offering the example does not imply utility is of prime importance. To be honest, I wasn't sure where you were going with the question asking about "practical purpose" to begin with. Additionally, if you're using science as a basis for mythos, "truth" (whatever that beast is) is already inherently part of the equation since evolution derives from the scientific method. What one is doing here is taking science beyond the raw and asking questions about greater meaning.
For example: evolutionary theory proposes that humans arose from nonhuman animals. What does this mean for us as a species? How can it influence how we regard ourselves and our relationship with the rest of nature? How can we derive greater meaning and life philosophies from the raw science?
idav said:
That's an interesting aspect I wasn't considering at first: education. Evolution has great potential for presentation as a narrative to facilitate understanding; I think that's part of what the Great Story folks are aiming at. As much as I hate to say it, the only reason I kept on the science track was because I personally have an innate fascination about the world around me, not because the information was presented in an interesting fashion. It's no wonder that many get disinterested in science careers when it isn't given narrative flow. Science writing is boring as hell, because the requirements of precision and accuracy tend to drain out any artful language whatsoever. You really have to love this stuff to tolerate it. Forget the general public getting into it... even ignoring the fact that the lexicon is impenetrable to the layperson.
Outhouse, did you read the big red print in the OP? I get the impression from your posts that you didn't or that I'm still not being clear what is meant by "myth" here. To borrow from E. Nato Difficile, it's not literal truth here we're looking at, but MEANING and PURPOSE, such as in the example I gave above.
But to the degree that we 'add' any meaning to 'fact' is when it becomes something that is treated as matter of debate, or for some in the room, is seen as way to help those interested in a topic, learn in their own way and become more interested.
I watch enough NatGeo type stuff to realize lots of scientific theories can be mythologized. In fact, I don't know if there is story that I've ever heard from science that wouldn't arguably be mythical in nature. I am looking here to distinguish between 'hard data' and 'story or model.'
Like the model for what atom looks like. The one given to us (in schools) in the '70's and '80's. That model helps understand nucleus, electron, proton and such. At same time, it is not an accurate model and I'm guessing is not something that those 'in the know' would reference at all in their work. But to help get people interested in the studying of phenomenon, it can help to present concepts (of phenomenon) into models or stories. Otherwise, you are essentially asking for automatons to join the field and/or those who only have a particular skill set.
Personally, I don't think stories and mythologizing science is ever going to go away. While I do think there will forever and a day be a push to minimize that 'crap' because at end of the day (and beginning of scientific work session), you have to set that aside since it is more or less child's play. But to get people interested (while they are young) and to communicate ideas so masses will care (enough to fund), it pretty much has to be 'dumbed down' in way that advanced learners / practitioners may not totally dig.
Biblestudent_007
Active Member
One particular evolutionist suggested that he had evidence to prove his theory.
Photonic
Ad astra!
Like all things in the English language, and any language, words are often used for purposes other than their original definition.
In this case prove means validate beyond doubt.
outhouse
Atheistically
Well the facts of evolution speak for themselves.
science does not prove anything
It doesnt change the facts we all evolved exactly like al other living creatures
I'd preface that with "reasonable."
You never know when a pink unicorn, black swan or super C neutrino might unexpectedly appear.
Photonic
Ad astra!
I'd preface that with "reasonable."
You never know when a pink unicorn, black swan or super C neutrino might unexpectedly appear.
Yes, of course.
Biblestudent_007
Active Member
I thought science was your ultimate prove-it-all oracle.
Photonic
Ad astra!
...What?
painted wolf
Grey Muzzle
We humans like to know where we belong.... even those that ascribe atheism.
We also love a good story and when that story is "real" we enjoy it all the more.
We are also prone to mythologizing everything, look at the way we teach history to children: the myth of Thanksgiving, Washington and the apple tree and so on.
"Just so" stories or as another great thinker once put it: "lies to children" are how we teach, not just about important facts but more subtle lessons about morality, cultural values and our place in the world.
Let's face it... the story of our evolution is pretty epic. That it gets embellished with our favorite tropes (the underdog, destiny, noble struggle et cet.) in the common telling is no surprise.
wa:do
We also love a good story and when that story is "real" we enjoy it all the more.
We are also prone to mythologizing everything, look at the way we teach history to children: the myth of Thanksgiving, Washington and the apple tree and so on.
"Just so" stories or as another great thinker once put it: "lies to children" are how we teach, not just about important facts but more subtle lessons about morality, cultural values and our place in the world.
Let's face it... the story of our evolution is pretty epic. That it gets embellished with our favorite tropes (the underdog, destiny, noble struggle et cet.) in the common telling is no surprise.
wa:do
Gjallarhorn
N'yog-Sothep
Gravity is only a theory.