Evolution flaws to proves it's fallcy "forced morality"

[jake0333]

In your brain there is a small part called the hypothalamus and in that part a hormone is produced called oxytocin. The oxytocin hormone is responsible for the bond between parents and children.
The oxytocin hormone production peaks specially after postpartum or during the nursing period between a mother and her baby. Without that hormone you won't have the emotional experience of
bond in a family or the close relationships between loved ones.

In the nucleus accumbens, another part of the brain, a hormone called dopamine is produced. Dopamine plays major role in giving you the sense to perceive cuteness in little puppies or new born babies,
so for a woman it gives her the attraction feelings toward her baby and sense of his cuteness, but there is another important role to dopamine other than "cuteness"...

Dopamine is also very important for regulating human behavior and the response to toward rewards and motivations. It pushes humans toward goodness and by seeking goodness the brain uses the dopamine
hormone to give the feelings of pleasure as a reward. The brains also learns how to encode the predictable errors in your actions. So if you make an error by cheating or by killing a human then the brain stops
the production or the release of dopamine in the blood stream and your quality of life suffers.

So usually bad people or killers turn to addictive drugs to force that part of the brain to amplify the effect of dopamine, but the problem is that your body adapts and gets use to it and later you lose any effect of
dopamine on the brain. By using drugs to trick the brain, you force it to manufacture new receptors for dopamine and once the drug effect is gone the normal amount of dopamine won't be enough anymore..
so you will get the urge to take more drugs...

So no you can't trick the brain for a pleasurable reward if you are a bad person.

So is morality is forced on you ? or is it by chance also like everything els that you believe in?

I have that feelings of " someone is pulling the strings behind the scenes " anyone els feels the same ?

 

[jake0333]

reward-seeking behavior

The human brain is designed to have reward-seeking behavior in the "dopaminergic neurons" which are the main source of the dopamine hormone in the brain. inside the nucleus accumbens is the "control" mechanism
for motivation, cognition and also the controls for predicting errors in your actions so a reward will be signaled or stopped, but depending on what you do... so what can the brain predict?

If you do good things you get inner peace, pleasure, happiness, selfs esteem... etc.
If you do bad things you get dissatisfaction, anxiety, restlessness, sadness... etc.

This helps us to avoid mistakes in our actions and also to modify our behaviour to make better choices the next time.

so part of your brain is made for that purpose, for "reward-seeking behavior" and it is a "control mechanism". some people who are sad and miserable abuse that part of the brain with drugs to get the pleasure sensation
of "reward-seeking behaviors".

why does all of this work that way? because it is written in our DNA and dopamine genes are part of our body's programming.

did this come into existance by itself? or by chance? i will leave the choice to you.

Yes, you learn ethics and you apply them in your daily life, but animals can not learn ethics, so they have forced morality in their brain to make a bird like killdeer sacrifice itself in front of a predator to save it's egg or little chicks.

 

[ArtieE]

why does all of this work that way? because it is written in our DNA and dopamine genes are part of our body's programming.

did this come into existance by itself? or by chance? i will leave the choice to you.

As I understand it you are saying that a genetic engineer you call a god personally sat down and designed the genome of every living thing that has ever existed up through the ages. Then he created elementary particles and assembled them into atoms and molecules until he had produced the entire genome of every different organism. And this he did from the first replicating system all the way through dinosaurs up until today. Is that what you believe?

 

[LegionOnomaMoi]

In your brain there is a small part called the hypothalamus

Small is a bit relative. Back when the only way we had of looking at brain structures was actually cutting open some skull, it was small. It was compared to larger structures. However, thanks to neuroimaging (mainly, anyway), this idea of large structures being the best way to understand brain function is at best simplistic and often just wrong. Neural circuitry is distributed not just within a given structure but between them. This is especially true when it comes to structures like the hypothalamus, which is responsible for integrating ANS functions and CNS, making it a central information "hub" between cortical regions and e.g, the limbic system.

and in that part a hormone is produced called oxytocin. The oxytocin hormone is responsible for the bond between parents and children.

No, it isn't. Also, it's not simply produced in the hypothalamus. It's
1) produced in specific parts of the hypothalamus (the PVN and SON), and
2) produced to a lesser extent in other similar areas responsible mainly for emotional and ANS regulation.

The oxytocin hormone production peaks specially after postpartum or during the nursing period between a mother and her baby. Without that hormone you won't have the emotional experience of
bond in a family or the close relationships between loved ones.

Knocking out a certain key gene in OXTR function in mice or rats and seeing that it has effects on things like milk ejection deficits does not mean that without oxytocin a human mother would behave like a mother mouse.

In the nucleus accumbens, another part of the brain, a hormone called dopamine is produced. Dopamine plays major role in giving you the sense to perceive cuteness in little puppies or new born babies,

The nucleus accumbens plays a rather small role relative to dopaminergic pathways in other brain regions.

Dopamine is also very important for regulating human behavior and the response to toward rewards and motivations. It pushes humans toward goodness and by seeking goodness the brain uses the dopamine

It's involved in drug-seeking behavior, probably schizophrenia, manic episodes, and criminal behavior. It's also involved in liking chocolate.

The brains also learns how to encode the predictable errors in your actions. So if you make an error by cheating or by killing a human then the brain stops
the production or the release of dopamine in the blood stream and your quality of life suffers.

No, actually. You can make someone produce greater amounts by having them torture and kill under particular circumstances. And as it's involved in all the naughty things people do, and its production is increased when you do such things, you've got it a bit backwards.

So usually bad people or killers turn to addictive drugs to force that part of the brain to amplify the effect of dopamine

Wrong.

So no you can't trick the brain for a pleasurable reward if you are a bad person.

Where does this junk come from? It sounds like some awful book for toddlers "And the good little boy's dopamine was just right. But his naughty naughty sister did bad things, and was sent to bed without any dopamine."

So is morality is forced on you ?

No. You see, the heart pumps blood to the brain, and we know emotional responses trigger greater activity in various cortical regions and the regulatory networks they are a part of, so you should follow you heart (as is it is pure, then it will give good blood to the brain, but if it is not, then you will not get any dopamine).

 

[idav]

I have that feelings of " someone is pulling the strings behind the scenes " anyone els feels the same ?

It's called determinism and she is a stubborn wench!

 

[painted wolf]

Hang on, I'm confused.

Earlier you said that morality is a choice and only humans have morality... therefore God.
Now you are saying that morality is hardwired and thus everything has it... therefore God.

Which is it?

wa:do

 

[jake0333]

Hang on, I'm confused.

Earlier you said that morality is a choice and only humans have morality... therefore God.
Now you are saying that morality is hardwired and thus everything has it... therefore God.

Which is it?

wa:do

painted wolf, you have a choice to choose right from wrong, but you have no control over your brain reaction to it.

Do you think criminals are happy ?

Why do American soldiers commit suicide at unprecedented rates?

So to war they go. Then later when they are too deeply involved, they come to realize that most of what they have been told regarding the enemy was in fact lies. By this point if a soldier hasn’t lost a limb or an eye or his sanity, he
has to live with the fact that he wasn’t indeed fighting for good but was mislead. Getting his limb back or washing off the blood from his hands is impossible by this point. The guilt, the resentment and the sheer helplessness to go
backwards in time can make many people despair.

New Pentagon statistics are showing that the military is losing an average of one soldier per day not to combat in Afghanistan, but to suicide.

 

[Alceste]

Jake0333, the answers to all your questions would be self-explanatory if you would only take the time to learn how evolution actually works.

Are you interested?

 

[freethinker44]

Hang on, I'm confused.

Earlier you said that morality is a choice and only humans have morality... therefore God.
Now you are saying that morality is hardwired and thus everything has it... therefore God.

Which is it?

wa:do

That's the beauty of creationist thinking. No matter how many times they contradict themselves, the outcome of each idea is always 'therefore God'. So even if they are mostly wrong, God still wins. If I wasn't intellectually honest I might try to do the same with atheism.

 

[freethinker44]

painted wolf, you have a choice to choose right from wrong, but you have no control over your brain reaction to it.

Do you think criminals are happy ?

Why do American soldiers commit suicide at unprecedented rates?

So to war they go. Then later when they are too deeply involved, they come to realize that most of what they have been told regarding the enemy was in fact lies. By this point if a soldier hasn’t lost a limb or an eye or his sanity, he
has to live with the fact that he wasn’t indeed fighting for good but was mislead. Getting his limb back or washing off the blood from his hands is impossible by this point. The guilt, the resentment and the sheer helplessness to go
backwards in time can make many people despair.

New Pentagon statistics are showing that the military is losing an average of one soldier per day not to combat in Afghanistan, but to suicide.

That's not why soldiers have a high suicide rate. It is almost always family issues.

 

[jake0333]

That's the beauty of creationist thinking. No matter how many times they contradict themselves, the outcome of each idea is always 'therefore God'. So even if they are mostly wrong, God still wins. If I wasn't intellectually honest I might try to do the same with atheism.

find this video to prove me wrong.

Paul Zak: Trust, morality -- and oxytocin?

You choose evolution because you want to be an atheist and that's your choice... but have dignity not to pretend that you are right and everybody els is wrong, just because they are not following the same ideology.

if you think you are right then live you life without hurting others just because of their believes. i'm as a believer in God, i don't mind your choice of atheism.

So if you want us to be like you, you be a better example for all of us to be followed.

 

[painted wolf]

painted wolf, you have a choice to choose right from wrong, but you have no control over your brain reaction to it.

Do you think criminals are happy ?

Why do American soldiers commit suicide at unprecedented rates?

So to war they go. Then later when they are too deeply involved, they come to realize that most of what they have been told regarding the enemy was in fact lies. By this point if a soldier hasn’t lost a limb or an eye or his sanity, he
has to live with the fact that he wasn’t indeed fighting for good but was mislead. Getting his limb back or washing off the blood from his hands is impossible by this point. The guilt, the resentment and the sheer helplessness to go
backwards in time can make many people despair.

New Pentagon statistics are showing that the military is losing an average of one soldier per day not to combat in Afghanistan, but to suicide.

I see your grasp of psychiatry is as strong as your grasp of evolution.

wa:do

 

[ImmortalFlame]

You choose evolution because you want to be an atheist and that's your choice.

Evolution has nothing to do with atheism. There are many theists who accept evolution, and practically every credible religious University teaches evolution. Anti-evolution, creationism and ID, on the other hand, is entirely theistic.

.. but have dignity not to pretend that you are right and everybody els is wrong, just because they are not following the same ideology.

But people who don't accept evolution ARE wrong. That's the point.

if you think you are right then live you life without hurting others just because of their believes. i'm as a believer in God, i don't mind your choice of atheism.

Nobody has suggested hurting theists for their beliefs. Theists, on the other hand, have suggested throwing out the valid scientific theory of evolution in favour of their religious doctrine, which I believe will do untold harm to the education of children all around the world and severely stunt scientific advancement. Having beliefs is fine, but trying to use those beliefs to silence science is not.

 

[ArtieE]

You choose evolution because you want to be an atheist and that's your choice... but have dignity not to pretend that you are right and everybody els is wrong, just because they are not following the same ideology.

You really are terribly misguided... evolution has nothing special to do with atheism of course. 77% of Jews, 72% of unaffiliated, 58% Catholics, 54% Orthodox and 51% Mainline Protestant and even 45% Muslims! in the US agree that evolution is the best explanation for the origins of human life on earth. Pew Forum: Religious Groups' Opinions of Evolution Please bear that in mind next time you make a comment on atheism and evolution.

 

[jake0333]

immortal flame, I'm nobody's monkey.

i don't like movies, tv shows, music, or stupid theories.

to me celebrities like actors and singers are clowns. they are entertainers with no value to me or my life.
how could you trust people who will manipulate you with bad ethics and sexuality just so they can get what they want from you?

and i also don't fight wars for the illusion of spreading democracy and freedom by killing others just because they are not obedient to us.

killing people and forcing ideologies will not liberate them and make them better.

so by now you should understand that if your scientist couldn't convence me, do you think that you have a better chance?

they are using evolution as a tool to spread atheism around the world and i'm not an obedient monkey to those humans you call scientist.

YOU have a choice to be atheist!! if you think you are right then please go live your life and die that way. i don't mind at all.

 

[secret2]

immortal flame, I'm nobody's monkey.

i don't like movies, tv shows, music, or stupid theories.

to me celebrities like actors and singers are clowns. they are entertainers with no value to me or my life.
how could you trust people who will manipulate you with bad ethics and sexuality just so they can get what they want from you?

and i also don't fight wars for the illusion of spreading democracy and freedom by killing others just because they are not obedient to us.

killing people and forcing ideologies will not liberate them and make them better.

so by now you should understand that if your scientist couldn't convence me, do you think that you have a better chance?

they are using evolution as a tool to spread atheism around the world and i'm not an obedient monkey to those humans you call scientist.

YOU have a choice to be atheist!! if you think you are right then please go live your life and die that way. i don't mind at all.

You know, if you have started this thread with such BS, we could all have saved our time.

 

[jake0333]

secret2, i have the right to question the theory, but not your belief.

i'm asking the wrong people because all i can see is denial! and i will not get anything from you guys.

if evolution makes you happy as an atheist then that's your choice.

anything els you want from me?

 

[secret2]

secret2, i have the right to question the theory, but not your belief.

i'm asking the wrong people because all i can see is denial! and i will not get anything from you guys.

if evolution makes you happy as an atheist then that's your choice.

anything els you want from me?

Don't be so angry. What can you give anyway? Just walk away and take a cold shower or something. Then when you feel calmer perhaps you can revisit people's comments to learn a thing or two and fix some misunderstandings of yours.

 

[McBell]

anything els you want from me?

Honesty would be a good place to start...

 

[ImmortalFlame]

immortal flame, I'm nobody's monkey.

Well... Good?

i don't like movies, tv shows, music, or stupid theories.

to me celebrities like actors and singers are clowns. they are entertainers with no value to me or my life.
how could you trust people who will manipulate you with bad ethics and sexuality just so they can get what they want from you?

I don't believe I do.

and i also don't fight wars for the illusion of spreading democracy and freedom by killing others just because they are not obedient to us.

That's also... Good... I think?

killing people and forcing ideologies will not liberate them and make them better.

so by now you should understand that if your scientist couldn't convence me, do you think that you have a better chance?

I'm not trying to convince you, I'm explaining the situation to you. It's not a case of people forcing ideologies on others, it's a case of some people accepting reality and others denying it.

they are using evolution as a tool to spread atheism around the world and i'm not an obedient monkey to those humans you call scientist.

Total garbage. Evolution has nothing to do with atheism, many millions of theists (including scientists who are theists) accept evolution. IT IS THE ANTI-EVOLUTION MOVEMENT WHO ARE ENTIRELY THEISTIC.

YOU have a choice to be atheist!! if you think you are right then please go live your life and die that way. i don't mind at all.

And you have the right to be a theist. You do not, however, have a right to deny facts to people. Evolution is a fact, whether you accept it or not.